Thoughts - Gr8 to beat #99 in goals scored?

[subnet]

Well here we are. Ovi, the Gr8 is tied with #99 for goals scored. I believe in 1 fewer game. Curious as to this board’s thoughts?

I’m one of the ‘elder’ members of this board. I’ve seen, live, Gretzky, along with our other greats, Messier, Anderson, Kurri , Coffey, etc.

Gretzky was so far ahead of his peers when he played. He broke and set, so many records. He retired when he was ‘average’ compared to the other STARS in the league. He could have kept playing but back injuries really impacted him. He could have had so many more points or goals if he wanted but he went ‘out’ while still very productive.

So here we are. Ovi will get the lead here very soon. I’ve talked and have read and heard just how ‘amazing’ the Gr8 is. Especially here south of the 49th parallel. When I think of all the accolades Ovechkin is currently getting, well, I get a little irritated, and figured I’d make this poll/pole/poel/powl.

I think it’s harder setting the goal vs catching it when there’s a target to hit, such as the home run record, hitting 50 goals in 50 games in a year etc. I’m sure if Gretzky had a number to break he would have - but he didn’t as he set so many records rather than had to achieve them.

Gretzky has 1,963 assists. Ovechkin has 724. Not even close. Ovechkin is known only for goals. Gretzky is not. Don’t get me wrong, Ovi is a good/great goal scorer. People are going Gaga over this but I guess I’m a little irritated over how big a deal this is now, lol. Is it justified or is it just me thinking it’s good, but not spectacular?

And… I meant to add to the poll, that #99 is still the ‘greatest of all time’ - and I didn’t use the G O A t reference where it seems that almost everyone uses the ‘goat’ reference now-data.

 

[Spawn]

Ovechkin is the greatest goal scorer of all time imo. The consistency he’s had in putting pucks in the net across his career is incredible.

I think it’s fair to say Gretzky had the greatest goal scoring peak. But he only led the league in goals 5 times. The drop off in the back half of his career can’t just be ignored. Ovechkin has led the league in goals it 9 times, and if not for some injuries this season could be giving Draisaitl a run for his money for a 10th go at it.

If not for games lost due to two covid shortened seasons as well as two lockouts, Ovechkin would have passed Gretzky a year or two ago and would probably be pushing for 1,000 career goals before he retired.

 

[Fourier]

Ovechkin is the greatest goal scorer of all time imo. The consistency he’s had in putting pucks in the net across his career is incredible.

I think it’s fair to say Gretzky had the greatest goal scoring peak. But he only led the league in goals 5 times. The drop off in the back half of his career can’t just be ignored. Ovechkin has led the league in goals it 9 times, and if not for some injuries this season could be giving Draisaitl a run for his money for a 10th go at it.

If not for games lost due to two covid shortened seasons as well as two lockouts, Ovechkin would have passed Gretzky a year or two ago and would probably be pushing for 1,000 career goals before he retired.

It's perfectly reasonable to hold the bolded opinion. But for me the definition of the greatest goal scorer of all time is not so clear. The simplest interpretation, and one that is very valid, would be the guy with the most goals and in that case OV will be the man. I think he is deserving of the record for his incredible consistency but I also think that his almost singular focus on scoring goals makes me less inclined to choose him over Gretzky.

The two players could not have a more different approach to this. For Ovechkin if the puck was on his stick the goal was to shoot it. He is certainly the greatest volume shooter of all time. He has over 1700 more shots than Gretzky. And Gretzky easily could have had more had than OV had he chosen to shoot rather than pass since he controlled the puck so much. Even at 10% sh% which is 7 below his career average that would be over 170 more goals.

I will mention two examples of where this really mattered. The first was on the pp. Gretzky is 18th in his career in pp goals despite having the puck more than probably any other player in history proportionally to the time he was on the ice with the man advantage. But on the pp he almost never looked to shoot. The NHL tracked pp shots since 1998. Since then OV has had 2209 shots on goal on the pp with the next highest player being Ovechkin at 1290 so there approach on the pp was 180 degrees different. If you count only ES and SH goals Gretzky still has an advantage of 115 goals. This is not to say pp goals don't count. Of course they do. And this is a big reason why he will hold the record.

But even at ES Gretzky was typically pass first, pass second and pass third. Those of us who watched Gretzky know that there was no one more deadly on an odd man rush in NHL history. But he was proportionally seldom the trigger man on these. He was the guy who held onto the puck to the very last second freeing the goalie before flipping it to a Kurri or a Coffey for a virtual tap in.

OV has raised his game this year but for several years prior to this his only real focus on the ice seemed to be scoring a goal. The last few years it was at time kind of sad watching him as he was often a big negative to his team on the ice. I am kind of glad that this year that has not been the case, so at least when he does break the record he will do so contributing to wins as he did much of his career.

Gretzky was a guy who manufactured a vast majority of his goals. Ov is a finisher. For me these are different skills and in that respect I don't really think it is 100% clear how this impacts the definition of "the greatest goal scorer of all time".

 

[midnightcopper]

I'll throw my two cents in and say it's not even a debate. We're talking the entire history of the NHL...the entire history, and the second greatest point scorer of all time is almost a staggering 1000 points behind Gretzky. I've said it in another thread, and always thought that if he felt like it, he could have scored many more goals than he did. The fact that he stopped six goals shy of 900 tells me it was like "whatever" to him. Throw in the fact that if he hadn't left Edmonton, who knows how many more he could have scored with the core group intact (besides more cups ). Ovechkin is like the gunslinger who counts shooting drunks as notches in his belt.

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

This one bothered me the past couple of seasons. I was 9 when Gretzky came into the league, so my teen years as an Oilers fan were pretty awesome. It bothered me to realize this was an actual possibility and then probability. Wayne has helped me get over it with his Americanish behavior - a reminder that our sports heroes are, after all, just really good at sports.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

I mean Ovi is still putting up 41+ goal seasons at 39. That’s insane.

Wayne is the best player of all time and I love him but Ovi takes best goal scorer.

 

[Spawn]

It's perfectly reasonable to hold the bolded opinion. But for me the definition of the greatest goal scorer of all time is not so clear. The simplest interpretation, and one that is very valid, would be the guy with the most goals and in that case OV will be the man. I think he is deserving of the record for his incredible consistency but I also think that his almost singular focus on scoring goals makes me less inclined to choose him over Gretzky.

The two players could not have a more different approach to this. For Ovechkin if the puck was on his stick the goal was to shoot it. He is certainly the greatest volume shooter of all time. He has over 1700 more shots than Gretzky. And Gretzky easily could have had more had than OV had he chosen to shoot rather than pass since he controlled the puck so much. Even at 10% sh% which is 7 below his career average that would be over 170 more goals.

I will mention two examples of where this really mattered. The first was on the pp. Gretzky is 18th in his career in pp goals despite having the puck more than probably any other player in history proportionally to the time he was on the ice with the man advantage. But on the pp he almost never looked to shoot. The NHL tracked pp shots since 1998. Since then OV has had 2209 shots on goal on the pp with the next highest player being Ovechkin at 1290 so there approach on the pp was 180 degrees different. If you count only ES and SH goals Gretzky still has an advantage of 115 goals. This is not to say pp goals don't count. Of course they do. And this is a big reason why he will hold the record.

But even at ES Gretzky was typically pass first, pass second and pass third. Those of us who watched Gretzky know that there was no one more deadly on an odd man rush in NHL history. But he was proportionally seldom the trigger man on these. He was the guy who held onto the puck to the very last second freeing the goalie before flipping it to a Kurri or a Coffey for a virtual tap in.

OV has raised his game this year but for several years prior to this his only real focus on the ice seemed to be scoring a goal. The last few years it was at time kind of sad watching him as he was often a big negative to his team on the ice. I am kind of glad that this year that has not been the case, so at least when he does break the record he will do so contributing to wins as he did much of his career.

Gretzky was a guy who manufactured a vast majority of his goals. Ov is a finisher. For me these are different skills and in that respect I don't really think it is 100% clear how this impacts the definition of "the greatest goal scorer of all time".

To me, a lot of this is just an argument for why Gretzky is a better player than Ovechkin. That argument isn’t necessary. We all know that’s the case.

But using the “well he could have scored more goals if he wanted to” argument just comes across as hollow to me when we’re specifically talking about actually scoring goals.

After the age of 30 until he retired Gretzky was 54th in total goals scored in the NHL. That’s nearly a full decade of hockey where he wasn’t close to an elite goal scorer. Not a single season after 1989 in top 10 in goals scored.

After the age of 30 to now, Ovechkin is 1st in the league in goals. 7 seasons in the top 10.

Hell Ovechkin has almost as many seasons where he’s led the entire league in goals (9) as Gretzky does times he finished in top 10 in league goal scoring (10).

Peak? Definitely Gretzky. But looking across an entire career, I don’t know how you don’t give it to Ovechkin.

 

[Oilslick941611]

I never really cared about Gretzky. He was slightly before my time. He was in decline by the time I started watching hockey and retired by the time I really got into hockey.

Fast forward to today and I have a hard time caring about this record as I don’t care for either player. I just look at Gretzky and I see an uncharismatic husk of a person with the public personality of wet cardboard. He’s not a great ambassador for the game.

His actions as the celebrity captain of the 4 nations Canadian team ( walking out by the Americans, giving them thumbs up, ignoring the Canadian team and not wearing a Canadian jersey) really rubbed me the wrong way. Not to mention his red hat pictures. I don’t care much for Ovi either, IMO drinking and being drunk isn’t showing personalty. His politics are trash as well, but he has less of a choice than Gretzky does in how he associates with political leaders.

It’s good for the game though. Best goal scorer doesn’t mean best player and best player doesn’t mean best goal scorer. I certainly don’t think Ovi is the best player in the league and the record is his motivation. I don’t see him or the caps carrying on this way in the future in fact part of me thinks chasing the record is why the capitals have had such a good year and in watching for for a big emotional let down after he breaks the record.

Ovi is very deserving of the record and being called the best goal scorer in NHL history.

 

[Tarus]

He's a goal scoring machine, putting up 50+ goals a year regularly - including during the mid-2010s dead puck era, he's even been putting up 40 and 50 goal seasons in his mid to late 30s. He deserves to be considered the best goal scorer in NHL history.

It doesn't take anything away from Gretz. His peak dominance is and always will be unmatched, and we're unlikely to ever again see the set of circumstances and player dominance that ever allows another player to challenge his nearly 3000 career points.

 

[Messrules11]

Let’s include playoff goals, they’re more important anyways. Ovi still has a ways to go.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Big goal scorer with an even bigger personality.

Well deserved. He is truly one of the best.

Him and Sid grew the game in a time of need

 

[Perfect_Drug]

IMHO OV's been the greatest goalscorer in NHL history for a while now.

Breaking this record just makes it undeniable.

 

[Fourier]

To me, a lot of this is just an argument for why Gretzky is a better player than Ovechkin. That argument isn’t necessary. We all know that’s the case.

But using the “well he could have scored more goals if he wanted to” argument just comes across as hollow to me when we’re specifically talking about actually scoring goals.

After the age of 30 until he retired Gretzky was 54th in total goals scored in the NHL. That’s nearly a full decade of hockey where he wasn’t close to an elite goal scorer. Not a single season after 1989 in top 10 in goals scored.

After the age of 30 to now, Ovechkin is 1st in the league in goals. 7 seasons in the top 10.

Hell Ovechkin has almost as many seasons where he’s led the entire league in goals (9) as Gretzky does times he finished in top 10 in league goal scoring (10).

Peak? Definitely Gretzky. But looking across an entire career, I don’t know how you don’t give it to Ovechkin.

It comes down to what your definition of "the best goal scorer" really is. I don't think there is one interpretation of this. If you are looking strictly at the raw ability to score, then "if he wants to" is actually part of the equation. I think one certainly can argue that it is harder to score today than in the 80's and that favors Ov. But again he has also had many many more opportunities to score, particularly on the pp where the differences between generations are less notable, so how much this equals out the era disadvantage is hard to say. In addition to a massive lead in shots on goal, since the NHL has tracked the stat OV also leads in missed shots with 2998. Jeff Carter is second with 1592.

Age 30+ Gretzky was a shadow of his earlier self. This started with the Suter hit in September of 1991. At that point he had 718 goals. So absolute peak is not the issue. Its twelve years vs 20. That injury changed Gretzky's game in a fundamental way. And that was not the only issue or perhaps even the most severe. In 1992-93 Gretzky suffered a herniated thoracic disk. That is actually a very rare injury that would typically end most athlete's careers. And while there is no question that OV has had remarkable longevity it is still notable that today they are just tied! It's not like OV has massively surpassed him.

Longevity is of course a factor in any discussion like this. But it is not everything. Gordie Howe has more career points than Lemieux for example but would you really say that at any point in his career he was a better offensive player than Lemieux? If asked today would you say that Howe was the better offensively over his career than Lemieux? I wouldn't but some might precisely because of longevity.

Again, I have no issue with anyone who feels this is OV's crown to wear. It is an amazing accomplishment for sure.

 

[Arpeggio]

That he did it in less games kind of makes it undeniable, Ovechkin is the greatest goal scorer ever in my opinion.

 

[alphahelix]

I mean Ovi is still putting up 41+ goal seasons at 39. That’s insane.

Wayne is the best player of all time and I love him but Ovi takes best goal scorer.

So the 2 things you just said have nothing to do with each other.

Ovechkin is proving he has some of the most longevity ever, up there with Jagr and Howe etc. - but scoring 40 or 50 goals doesnt even put you in the conversation for best goal scorer. Outside of a single season, (65) he has never escape this range.

I may as well take this opportunity to mention Ovechkin sitting at 7000PP minutes (the most ever by anyone by a lot) - over 95% of Capital’s PP time during his tenure, the most empty net goals by a good margin, the highest shot volumes- and low assist totals. The guy clearly prioritized scoring goals above all else for his entire career and he is still squeaking to the record at the same GP as Gretzky who did none of the above. Gretzky had like 73 SH goals, Ovechkin never wasted a drop of sweat in a disadvantaged game state.

Longevity does not equal ability, and luck to not take a major injury is a major factor. Mike Bossy would have waltzed his way to this total in less GP for sure if he were healthy, Lemieux and others strong chance.

If Auston Matthews is healthy he will blow this up in time as well.

Ovechkin has the most rockets because he only and to compete with goalscorers like Jonathan Cheechoo and Corey Perry for the trophy during his era. It was a weak era for goal scoring talents. One 65 goal season which was very impressive and easily his crowning achievement for me, but that has him well aside from the greats who did that type of total routinely.

Teemu Selanne outscored Ovechkin as a geriatric. I don’t think a prime Gretzky loses to anyone under any circumstances.

IF you look at the best season, the best 2 season stretch, the best 3 season stretch, the best 5 year stretch, the stretch of “prime goal scoring years” whatever it is for each player up to 10 years or so, Ovechkin won’t register. And if you take geriatrics who do and put them in the same league at the same time, they can outscore him. And if you take young guys fresh into the league like Matthews, they outscore him. I dunno, theres no 90’s Brett Hull stretch in Ovi’s career, there’s no Teemu Selanne 76 goal rookie season, how many 5 goal games does he have?

If he gets to the most GP that is his real achievement. He’s #11 in the NHL since his career started in PPG. He scores an entire goal less than Draisaitl per hour on the PP. He just plays like hundreds of hours on the PP. Does that make him the best goal scorer or the best at PPTOI? He is a great goal scorer at even strength so I’m not trying to call him a PP merchant… but he has like 100 more PP goals than Gretzky.

 

[oilexport]

I'll call Ovie what it is. The all time leading goal scorer.

I'll call Wayne what it is. The greatest player ever.

 

[Mr Positive]

I'm old enough to have watched Gretzky as an Oiler (I was like 8, but who's counting). It was amazing to have that level of talent but it's great for the league to have one of his records broken.

That record was also insane for Gretzky to have. He just wasn't a shoot first player. It's almost bad that we had a talent so transcendent that he even owned the record that an Ovie or Brett Hull type really ought to have. I do think it's better for the goals record to go to a true sniper. We don't need the NHL to have this one singular figure who has a monopoly on seemingly every major record. Gretzky still has amazing records

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

So the 2 things you just said have nothing to do with each other.

Ovechkin is proving he has some of the most longevity ever, up there with Jagr and Howe etc. - but scoring 40 or 50 goals doesnt even put you in the conversation for best goal scorer. Outside of a single season, (65) he has never escape this range.

I may as well take this opportunity to mention Ovechkin sitting at 7000PP minutes (the most ever by anyone by a lot) - over 95% of Capital’s PP time during his tenure, the most empty net goals by a good margin, the highest shot volumes- and low assist totals. The guy clearly prioritized scoring goals above all else for his entire career and he is still squeaking to the record at the same GP as Gretzky who did none of the above. Gretzky had like 73 SH goals, Ovechkin never wasted a drop of sweat in a disadvantaged game state.

Longevity does not equal ability, and luck to not take a major injury is a major factor. Mike Bossy would have waltzed his way to this total in less GP for sure if he were healthy, Lemieux and others strong chance.

If Auston Matthews is healthy he will blow this up in time as well.

Ovechkin has the most rockets because he only and to compete with goalscorers like Jonathan Cheechoo and Corey Perry for the trophy during his era. It was a weak era for goal scoring talents. One 65 goal season which was very impressive and easily his crowning achievement for me, but that has him well aside from the greats who did that type of total routinely.

Teemu Selanne outscored Ovechkin as a geriatric. I don’t think a prime Gretzky loses to anyone under any circumstances.

IF you look at the best season, the best 2 season stretch, the best 3 season stretch, the best 5 year stretch, the stretch of “prime goal scoring years” whatever it is for each player up to 10 years or so, Ovechkin won’t register. And if you take geriatrics who do and put them in the same league at the same time, they can outscore him. And if you take young guys fresh into the league like Matthews, they outscore him. I dunno, theres no 90’s Brett Hull stretch in Ovi’s career, there’s no Teemu Selanne 76 goal rookie season, how many 5 goal games does he have?

If he gets to the most GP that is his real achievement. He’s #11 in the NHL since his career started in PPG. He scores an entire goal less than Draisaitl per hour on the PP. He just plays like hundreds of hours on the PP. Does that make him the best goal scorer or the best at PPTOI? He is a great goal scorer at even strength so I’m not trying to call him a PP merchant… but he has like 100 more PP goals than Gretzky.

Please. Being able to sustain a high goal total every season longer and more consistently than everyone else absolutely factors into the greatest goal scorer of all time debate.

Lots of lame excuses in here.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

So the 2 things you just said have nothing to do with each other.

Ovechkin is proving he has some of the most longevity ever, up there with Jagr and Howe etc. - but scoring 40 or 50 goals doesnt even put you in the conversation for best goal scorer. Outside of a single season, (65) he has never escape this range.

so Alex Mogilny is a better goal scorer than OV cause he hit 76 goals once?
what makes him the best scorer in history is his consistency....most players fall off in their 30s, Ovechkin has 419 goals since his 30th birthday

I may as well take this opportunity to mention Ovechkin sitting at 7000PP minutes (the most ever by anyone by a lot) - over 95% of Capital’s PP time during his tenure, the most empty net goals by a good margin, the highest shot volumes- and low assist totals. The guy clearly prioritized scoring goals above all else for his entire career and he is still squeaking to the record at the same GP as Gretzky who did none of the above. Gretzky had like 73 SH goals, Ovechkin never wasted a drop of sweat in a disadvantaged game state.

Longevity does not equal ability, and luck to not take a major injury is a major factor. Mike Bossy would have waltzed his way to this total in less GP for sure if he were healthy, Lemieux and others strong chance.

but they didn't....and we will never know if their production wouldn't fallen off a cliff
your best ability is availability...their "flaws" were they couldn't stay healthy

If Auston Matthews is healthy he will blow this up in time as well.

Ovechkin has the most rockets because he only and to compete with goalscorers like Jonathan Cheechoo and Corey Perry for the trophy during his era. It was a weak era for goal scoring talents. One 65 goal season which was very impressive and easily his crowning achievement for me, but that has him well aside from the greats who did that type of total routinely.

Teemu Selanne outscored Ovechkin as a geriatric. I don’t think a prime Gretzky loses to anyone under any circumstances.

no he didn't, Selanne had two 40-goal seasons after 30 years old...OV had five, including a 50-goal campaign
Gretzky scored most of his goals in a higher scoring era, with small goalies and smaller pads

If he gets to the most GP that is his real achievement. He’s #11 in the NHL since his career started in PPG. He scores an entire goal less than Draisaitl per hour on the PP. He just plays like hundreds of hours on the PP. Does that make him the best goal scorer or the best at PPTOI? He is a great goal scorer at even strength so I’m not trying to call him a PP merchant… but he has like 100 more PP goals than Gretzky.

come up with excuse you like, he's the best because of his consistency

 

[Drivesaitl]

Well here we are. Ovi, the Gr8 is tied with #99 for goals scored. I believe in 1 fewer game. Curious as to this board’s thoughts?

I’m one of the ‘elder’ members of this board. I’ve seen, live, Gretzky, along with our other greats, Messier, Anderson, Kurri , Coffey, etc.

Gretzky was so far ahead of his peers when he played. He broke and set, so many records. He retired when he was ‘average’ compared to the other STARS in the league. He could have kept playing but back injuries really impacted him. He could have had so many more points or goals if he wanted but he went ‘out’ while still very productive.

So here we are. Ovi will get the lead here very soon. I’ve talked and have read and heard just how ‘amazing’ the Gr8 is. Especially here south of the 49th parallel. When I think of all the accolades Ovechkin is currently getting, well, I get a little irritated, and figured I’d make this poll/pole/poel/powl.

I think it’s harder setting the goal vs catching it when there’s a target to hit, such as the home run record, hitting 50 goals in 50 games in a year etc. I’m sure if Gretzky had a number to break he would have - but he didn’t as he set so many records rather than had to achieve them.

Gretzky has 1,963 assists. Ovechkin has 724. Not even close. Ovechkin is known only for goals. Gretzky is not. Don’t get me wrong, Ovi is a good/great goal scorer. People are going Gaga over this but I guess I’m a little irritated over how big a deal this is now, lol. Is it justified or is it just me thinking it’s good, but not spectacular?

And… I meant to add to the poll, that #99 is still the ‘greatest of all time’ - and I didn’t use the G O A t reference where it seems that almost everyone uses the ‘goat’ reference now-data.

Ovi is the greatest hockey medical specimen since Howe. Gretzky was of course the far greater player. Wayned didn't survive ageing as well as OVi did and Wayne also started getting tossed around to different clubs in last half of career. Ovi has always been with one club and all offense, passing, PP has at times been focused around him. Wayne didn't get that same benefit.

Depends how one characterizes greatest scorer of all time. For Longevity, Its OV. But for peak temporal highest scoring ever, its of course Gretzky.

I don't know that there needs to be a debate in anycase and Wayne doesn't seem to think so. In terms of shot I'll go with OV as well. man he punishes the pucks and tons of shots where goalies don't even have a chance and in a game where goaltending has improved. The counter I guess is that Wayne didn't get to record his totals with Carbon Graphite Sticks but he wouldn't have the monster heavy shot that OV has.

Just a few random comparisons is that Gretz didn't have the benefit of 3 on 3 OT where its comparitively easier to score and where goals occur at a much much higher rate. He also has 9 less ENG than OV. So that the per game metric should be viewed with grain of salt. Gretz got to the alltime total goals faster, if fairly viewed and controlling for ENG and 3on3 But the biggest X factor is that OV has many more PP goals than Gretz. 324 vs 204 and so that OV had the benefit of 120 MORE career PPG's. I'm a purist. Gretz scored many more goals at EV strength and that matters.

Just another note that the NHL does not include WHA goals which was also pro hockey and the NHL doesn't include for its own reasons. However Wayne played in that league, excelled there as well, and endured punishment in that league playing against men as an underager which is noteworthy at least.


Gonna mention another aspect here. G/G. Mike Bossy and Mario Lemieux were freaks of nature at G/g being at .76 and .75 respectively.

NHL Goals Per Game Leaders All-time | StatMuse

Mike Bossy has scored the most career goals per game, with 0.76 per game.

www.statmuse.com

 

[Oilhawks]

It's a shame Mike Bossy didn't have a healthier career.

This thread wouldn't exist.

 

[HockeyGuy1964]

It's a shame Mike Bossy didn't have a healthier career.

This thread wouldn't exist.

Bossy was the greatest pure goal scorer the nhl ever saw.
Not sure how anybody could argue that.
The only other even close is Mario.

 

[Drivesaitl]

To me, a lot of this is just an argument for why Gretzky is a better player than Ovechkin. That argument isn’t necessary. We all know that’s the case.

But using the “well he could have scored more goals if he wanted to” argument just comes across as hollow to me when we’re specifically talking about actually scoring goals.

After the age of 30 until he retired Gretzky was 54th in total goals scored in the NHL. That’s nearly a full decade of hockey where he wasn’t close to an elite goal scorer. Not a single season after 1989 in top 10 in goals scored.

After the age of 30 to now, Ovechkin is 1st in the league in goals. 7 seasons in the top 10.

Hell Ovechkin has almost as many seasons where he’s led the entire league in goals (9) as Gretzky does times he finished in top 10 in league goal scoring (10).

Peak? Definitely Gretzky. But looking across an entire career, I don’t know how you don’t give it to Ovechkin.

Nah. motivationally having a record total to beat is different than not having one. OV has the benefit of a chase number which can impact such things as motivation. Had Wayne been chasing somebody with hgher goal totals he'd likely have more goals. Other factors I've mentioned is Gretz had no benefit of 3 on 3 OT, his WHA goals are not counted, and he has 9 less ENG than OV. Wayne also has 120 LESS PP goals than Ovi because Wayne had far less PP toi on the respective clubs he played on. At least in terms of Goals scored per game Gretz was better. But then again as I've mentioned in G'G Bossy and Lemieux were the greatest of alltime.

 

[oilexport]

I'm old enough to have watched Gretzky as an Oiler (I was like 8, but who's counting). It was amazing to have that level of talent but it's great for the league to have one of his records broken.

That record was also insane for Gretzky to have. He just wasn't a shoot first player. It's almost bad that we had a talent so transcendent that he even owned the record that an Ovie or Brett Hull type really ought to have. I do think it's better for the goals record to go to a true sniper. We don't need the NHL to have this one singular figure who has a monopoly on seemingly every major record. Gretzky still has amazing records

If Wayne scored on half of his breakaway chances, it would take Ovie another year or 2, to get the most goals.

Wayne was in a class of his own. Nobody ever will have that mystical power of play development and anticipation. I watched him in Edmonton, from the time he was 17 years old. I would fall off the couch, almost every game, at his hockey mind and vision.

 

[Patch101]

I always thought that Brett Hull was one of the better scorers in my youth.
Wayne and Mario best players I've seen. Honorable mention to Lindros when he was peak.

These days, yes Ovi best goal scorer. He made a living sniping on the circle, and nobody could stop him.
and now you have Crosby and McDavo as the best players I've seen.