Player Discussion Thomas Chabot (D) Part 2

[Sens of Anarchy]

Brady is a far better all round player than Chabot. Chabot only plays good defense when he has a solid partner to play with. And when's the last time Chabot had a dominant offensive game???
Put Brady on with two fourth liners and he will still score and hit.

I wasn't comparing them against each other. I am comparing them to themselves in where their play is at and where it can be better.

Can you imagine Brady playing D with his skating? lol

Sorry I pulled to hard on your Tkachuk fandom string.

 

[BondraTime]

I think you are being overly generous in your assessment because he has been good with no major mistakes. In the last 5 games he's had no goals, one primary assist with 15 shots on goal out of 35 attempts. He has blocked 10 shots, had 2 total hits and 4 takeaways and 4 giveaways. OK stats but nothing that is outstanding. And I would say Jensen has been equally as good or better.

I'm not expecting him to have goals, I'm expecting him to tilt the ice, and he's tilted the ice more than any player on the team.

The Chabot/Jensen pairing has been hands down the best guys over the past 5 games, not really anyone close.

10 blocks over the past 5 games is the most on the team
15 shots is most among D on the team (with Jensen), 2nd most on the team
3 points is most among D, 3rd most on team
24:44 is most on the team, that's without PP1 time
Has tilted the ice more than any player on the team (+59 shot attempts is best on team)
Best +/- among team at +3 (with Jensen)

When he's been on the ice, the Sens have been controlling the play more than any other guy on the team

He's got 6 points and is +9 since we went to Utah, he's been phenomenal for the Sens the past 3 weeks.

 

[Sensinitis]

He's been looking like his WJC MVP self. It's been a treat to watch

 

[JD1]

Playing way too many mins, poor defense partner and not having any defensive depth behind him certainly would be reasons for any defensemen to play poorly

If you have anxiety issues maybe. If you're so worried about what comes after you that you yourself cannot perform....ok, I'm not a shrink but sure, that could be.


Chabot hasn't been getting shots thru, hasn't been physical, has made bone head passes, bone head reads etc.

He hasn't been playing well for a couple of years. That's on him. Not DJ. Not Zaitsev. It's on him.

And thankfully it looks like he's getting his head out of the clouds and his play has improved.

 

[JD1]

I'm not expecting him to have goals, I'm expecting him to tilt the ice, and he's tilted the ice more than any player on the team.

The Chabot/Jensen pairing has been hands down the best guys over the past 5 games, not really anyone close.

10 blocks over the past 5 games is the most on the team
15 shots is most among D on the team (with Jensen), 2nd most on the team
3 points is most among D, 3rd most on team
24:44 is most on the team, that's without PP1 time
Has tilted the ice more than any player on the team (+59 shot attempts is best on team)
Best +/- among team at +3 (with Jensen)

When he's been on the ice, the Sens have been controlling the play more than any other guy on the team

He's got 6 points and is +9 since we went to Utah, he's been phenomenal for the Sens the past 3 weeks.

I've been a big Chabot critic but can easily acknowledge his play has improved. He's fortunate that Sanderson is now taking the harder minutes. That's contributing to Chabot being able to tilt the ice

I think with Zub back, we can get in a groove and on a roll.

I would rather see JBD in over Harmonic simply because of the age / future thing

 

[TheNewEra]

I've been a big Chabot critic but can easily acknowledge his play has improved. He's fortunate that Sanderson is now taking the harder minutes. That's contributing to Chabot being able to tilt the ice

I think with Zub back, we can get in a groove and on a roll.

I would rather see JBD in over Harmonic simply because of the age / future thing

This definitely plays a role

At the same time this is the first time Chabot has had a partner that fit with his play since Demelo.

Its definitely a problem that he doesnt fit with other dmen as well as an 8 million player should but at the same time its just one of those combos that we shouldnt even touch due to how effective it is

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Really too bad jensen is 34 already. Hope he can keep it up. He’s welcome here as long as he does.

really surprised how good he still is for 34.

fast, aggressive, chippy. usually these are the things to go.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Really too bad jensen is 34 already. Hope he can keep it up. He’s welcome here as long as he does.

His main strength is IQ so I do feel even at worst he'll be a good #5. With Yakemchuk coming back and Hoyt being an underrated prospect, that could be more than enough in the future.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

really surprised how good he still is for 34.

fast, aggressive, chippy. usually these are the things to go.

There's exceptions all over the league and the best teams find them and succeed with them just the same, they just don't over commit to them. Huge nod to our pro scouting on that trade as he's looked much better than Chychrun ever did and at only 2 years, Jensen can either walk at 36 or maybe even hang on for cheaper on the bottom pairing. Almost perfect fit with Yak coming.

I'm very happy with Jensen over say signing that Tanev contract it sounds like the team was planning for. Very happy with that turn of events as Jensen has been fantastic.


Wrt Chabot, I don't know how anyone can excuse the position the team put him in, even though he has personal responsibility too. Management tried to play him with non top 4 D men one after another, played him waaaaay too much, and had him as their indesputable #1 when that doesn't look like where he's suited, at least not without a solid pairing to support. Lots of guys fail out under that scenario and then look much better when properly slotted and not playing with major anchors like Zaitsev. And all that ignores the chaotic nature of the team itself, its expired rebuild coach, and its amateur hour MO in general. Nobody on the team was really succeeding in the right ways under DJ and the house hadn't been cleaned up yet.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Man, I was thinking yesterday how good Jensen is. What an addition.

 

[bicboi64]

Brady is a far better all round player than Chabot. Chabot only plays good defense when he has a solid partner to play with. And when's the last time Chabot had a dominant offensive game???
Put Brady on with two fourth liners and he will still score and hit.

Chabot has always been a two way defender who literally started to break down because of the difficulty of his minutes + lack of adequate D partner. Brady has always been a one dimensional forward who is finally getting better in his own end, but has always played with the best linemates on the team.

The notion of Brady being a 'far better' all round player than Chabot isn't remotely accurate. Brady might be a bigger gamechanger on offense than Chabot is at any aspect of his game, but when it comes to all round play, Chabot is a clear cut above him

4yrs x 3 likely wasn't on the table given we traded him 1 month before the market got flipped upside down by Covid. Lots of UFA took haircuts that offseason,

I still would have looked to extend him, but I don't think it's being very honest to say we could have extended him to the same deal he eventually got under very different market conditions.

Even if we went with $4 million, it'd have been a great deal considering the value he provided for our (at the time) most important defender. I shudder to think what the team would be if Zub didn't turn out to be a good shut down guy the way we let DeMelo go and kept Zaitsev

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Well, DeMelo was in the Uber.

Chabot was too wasn't he?

 

[DueDiligence]

he's been phenomenal for the Sens the past 3 weeks.

He's been good but if that's your criteria for phenomenal then I don't know what to say. So I guess Dmen like Quinn Hughes and Cale Makar that can actually take over a game are super phenomenal?

 

[BondraTime]

He's been good but if that's your criteria for phenomenal then I don't know what to say. So I guess Dmen like Quinn Hughes and Cale Makar that can actually take over a game are super phenomenal?

He's been good but if that's your criteria for phenomenal then I don't know what to say. So I guess Dmen like Quinn Hughes and Cale Makar that can actually take over a game are super phenomenal?

I mean, yeah?

They are legitimately the top D in the league. Norris winners.

 

[BigRig4]

Chabot was too wasn't he?

Yeah but I don’t think he said anything iirc. It was mostly duchene and wideman.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

His play right now reminds me a bit of Scott Niedermayer. He was never "taking over a game" visibly with flashy play, but he was one of the greatest of all time at tilting the ice.

 

[DueDiligence]

Chabot has always been a two way defender who literally started to break down because of the difficulty of his minutes + lack of adequate D partner.

So Chabot has always been a 2 way defender? His goal high is 15 and has had over 41 pts once. He's always been a negative player every season in the league.
He's playing well this year after a couple of poor seasons but the excuses made for him boggle the mind.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Yeah but I don’t think he said anything iirc. It was mostly duchene and wideman.

Maybe I need to do a revisit and refresh my memory lol. What a weird time in Sens history. I always took that event as a direct reflection of just how bad things were above them.

 

[DueDiligence]

I mean, yeah?

They are legitimately the top D in the league. Norris winners.

That's my point. Cant we just be thankful he is playing well but at the same time realize that he's not this elite Dman?

 

[armani]

I'm not expecting him to have goals, I'm expecting him to tilt the ice, and he's tilted the ice more than any player on the team.

The Chabot/Jensen pairing has been hands down the best guys over the past 5 games, not really anyone close.

10 blocks over the past 5 games is the most on the team
15 shots is most among D on the team (with Jensen), 2nd most on the team
3 points is most among D, 3rd most on team
24:44 is most on the team, that's without PP1 time
Has tilted the ice more than any player on the team (+59 shot attempts is best on team)
Best +/- among team at +3 (with Jensen)

When he's been on the ice, the Sens have been controlling the play more than any other guy on the team

He's got 6 points and is +9 since we went to Utah, he's been phenomenal for the Sens the past 3 weeks.

Facts.

Very happy with Chabot-Jensen duo’s play. Ottawa truly needed to stabilize the top-4, this pair playing as top pairs is such great progress, I expect Sandy-Zub pair to play even better once Zub reaches his peak to start the season.

Goes with saying, the top-4 needs to stay healthy and play the entire season for this team to succeed.

 

[JD1]

Chabot has always been a two way defender who literally started to break down because of the difficulty of his minutes + lack of adequate D partner. Brady has always been a one dimensional forward who is finally getting better in his own end, but has always played with the best linemates on the team.

The notion of Brady being a 'far better' all round player than Chabot isn't remotely accurate. Brady might be a bigger gamechanger on offense than Chabot is at any aspect of his game, but when it comes to all round play, Chabot is a clear cut above him

Well, you could think about this this way

Both have 4 years left on their deals. Tkachuk at 8.2 and Chabot at 8.0 (iirc off the top of my head)

If we trade Tkachuk, we're getting a massive haul in return

If we trade Chabot, notwithstanding his recent stellar play, we're probably stapling assets to Chatbot to be rid of the contract

One player is a bargain and the other is a bit of a cap dump.

Personally I'd take the contract bargain

 

[Micklebot]

That's my point. Cant we just be thankful he is playing well but at the same time realize that he's not this elite Dman?

I don't think anyone suggested he was elite/norris level?reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee4qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqw2;[cat on keyboard, saving it for posterity]

I mean, when someone states that the 4th line has been phenomenal, they don't mean they expect Gaudette to win the heart race. Beyond that, people were just taking about Chabot's last ~5 games. Why be upset someone is giving a guy playing extremely well some accolades?

 

[coladin]

I can't help but wonder. Is now the time to put Chabot back with Zub? They have played well together, and in a second pairing role they would be able to play as well instead of Jensen.

Move Jensen up with Sanderson? Maybe Jensen can bring some stability to Sandy too

 

[BondraTime]

That's my point. Cant we just be thankful he is playing well but at the same time realize that he's not this elite Dman?

I understand your point, mine is that there isn’t a benchmark of you have to be the top player at your position for a player to be considered to be playing phenomenally.

I haven’t said he’s an elite D, though he has without a doubt been playing like one the past 5 games. If he played a full season like he has the past 5 he would have had an elite season.

To the point you made that he’s only had over 41 points once, sure, but that’s just omitting tons of context to make a point that suits what you’re trying to say, which I get and understand and agree with a lot of.

His injuries have played a major part in that completely, because the lowest pace he’s ever had since his rookie year has him with 45. I don’t think it’s very fair to say “he’s only had more than 41 points once” to paint that he isn’t doing much offensively while omitting that he has paced over that amount every year since his rookie season, averaging 53 per season over the past 6, while having 41 points in 68 and 38 points in 59 seasons.

He has he some very, very bad play the last few years. He was thrown to the wolves without any help, and he has had his head up his ass at the same time. It seems with some help, and with him getting his head straight, he can still be a 23+ minute, 50p every situation D who tilts the ice among the best in the league. That is an extremely, extremely valuable player.

 

[bicboi64]

Well, you could think about this this way

Both have 4 years left on their deals. Tkachuk at 8.2 and Chabot at 8.0 (iirc off the top of my head)

If we trade Tkachuk, we're getting a massive haul in return

If we trade Chabot, notwithstanding his recent stellar play, we're probably stapling assets to Chatbot to be rid of the contract

One player is a bargain and the other is a bit of a cap dump.

Personally I'd take the contract bargain

Let's take a step back, Tkachuk isn't a bargain, he's living up to his contract and playing its worth. Chabot isn't going to require us to pay to move, he's not Darnell Nurse. What each player gets in a trade haul is irrelevant to how Chabot is a more rounded player than Tkachuk is, and that doesn't mean Tkachuk is less valuable or Chabot is more valuable.

Judging each players value to the team based on what they'd receive in a trade haul ignores the context of how the players have gotten to where they are. Chabot has had to carry the blue line while playing 25+ minutes for several years and its broken him to the point where he appeared to be too indecisive to be our top D. We gave him an above average RD to play with, and he's now an invaluable piece of the team.

Tkachuk is a power forward unicorn who shoots and hits like crazy. That's super valuable, and after having played with the best players we've had, he's developed into an amazing offensive threat. His defensive game hasn't caught up and we need it to for us to be successful.

We need both players to be successful, but it's easier for Chabot to get going because he finally has the bare minimum for a defensive partner, and now he's effective on both ends of the ice. Tkachuk's growth in his own end depends entirely on itself.

So Chabot has always been a 2 way defender? His goal high is 15 and has had over 41 pts once. He's always been a negative player every season in the league.
He's playing well this year after a couple of poor seasons but the excuses made for him boggle the mind.

Context matters mate. He's produced at a .59ppg (49 point pace) his whole career, played 24+ minutes for every season until Sanderson's emergence, and done it without adequate D partners. Also the list of players in our core that have an overall postive +/- after the last 6 years is very small and doesn't mean much when evaluating their defensive ability.

Chabot is by every definition a two way defender, and a more rounded player in his respective position than Tkachuk is in his position.