Pre-Game Talk: This week on the Avs vs.NSH(Monday 7:00PM) vs.LA(Wednesday 8:00PM) vs.WSH(Friday 7:00PM) Return of the Coke king of Colorado.

[HartKinnon]

People are really starting to mythologize Annunen more than a little bit. Go take a look at his last three starts. He even manages a win there but steadily got worse as time went on.

Justus Annunen Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Salary, Title | Hockey-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Justus Annunen. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft, salary and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

Justus of the Crease will get starts. But we all know he ain't the starting goalie, and shouldn't be the starting goalie.

Did it ever occur to anyone that Bednar also has to be concerned about Annunen's confidence going out the window too? I don't get the impression he's as fragile as Georgie but he's still a really young goalie who's barely made it into the NHL. And as has been pointed out ad nauseam, he ain't lookin' good in practice either.

Without the Giroux goal at 19:50 at third Annunen would have had another quality game againts Sens statwise. After the Sens game he sit in the pressbox instead of Georgiev when Kahkonen got the start. Two starts after that game were quite shitty for Annunen and i cant blame him for that. He helped the team out of the slump and got treated like shit.

 

[Pokecheque]

Without the Giroux goal at 19:50 at third Annunen would have had another quality game againts Sens statwise. After the Sens game he sit in the pressbox instead of Georgiev when Kahkonen got the start. Two starts after that game were quite shitty for Annunen and i cant blame him for that. He helped the team out of the slump and got treated like shit.

I don't think he got "treated like shit" at all. Eventually they were going to try the other goalies again, and Annunen knew that. If Bednar hated Annunen as much as you and some others on here think he does, then he wouldn't have gotten five starts already.

This whole "hE dISruPteD HiS rhYthM!!!" thing is such utter bullshit. First people said he was shitty to start the year because he had to come in cold (newsflash, he's a backup goalie, that's his job), then people said he was shitty as a starter because he had to sit two games. If that right there derails him, he has no business being in the NHL.

And no, even if you erase that last goal, he was not "quality" against the Sens. He was barely adequate.

This guy is basically Reto Berra/Jonas Johansson-level, one of those guys is long gone from the league and other should've been a long time ago, but everyone desperately wants a viable alternative to Georgiev. I get it, I don't like Georgiev either. Apart from good rebound control, I just don't see anything about him that screams "NHL goalie." He's. Not. Good. Enough. Avs need to find the solution outside the organization.

 

[The Abusement Park]

People are really starting to mythologize Annunen more than a little bit. Go take a look at his last three starts. He even manages a win there but steadily got worse as time went on.

Justus Annunen Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Salary, Title | Hockey-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Justus Annunen. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft, salary and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

Justus of the Crease will get starts. But we all know he ain't the starting goalie, and shouldn't be the starting goalie.

Did it ever occur to anyone that Bednar also has to be concerned about Annunen's confidence going out the window too? I don't get the impression he's as fragile as Georgie but he's still a really young goalie who's barely made it into the NHL. And as has been pointed out ad nauseam, he ain't lookin' good in practice either.

Georgie saves 27 of 31: He got so lucky tonight! Worst f***ing goalie of all time how does he start??????

Annunen saves 26 of 30: It's clear he's the better goalie, it's not even close!!

 

[henchman21]

The Avs are clearly trying to build up George's confidence. Nobody wants to hear it, but he's the only goalie on the roster that has the ceiling that this team needs. So the Avs will do what they can to try to get him to play close to it.

 

[LOFIN]

The Avs are clearly trying to build up George's confidence. Nobody wants to hear it, but he's the only goalie on the roster that has the ceiling that this team needs. So the Avs will do what they can to try to get him to play close to it.

Well, yes. Now that Kähkönen is gone.

 

[henchman21]

Well, yes. Now that Kähkönen is gone.

I don't think anybody outside yourself believes that Kahkonen's ceiling is higher.

 

[Tommy Shelby]

This is all just 4D Chess to trick some chump into accepting a 4giev trade down the line

 

[Ceremony]

Get Fourgiev in against Washington. Do our bit for the goals record.

 

[LOFIN]

I don't think anybody outside yourself believes that Kahkonen's ceiling is higher.

Georgiev has had the benefit of getting the chance to become a full-time starter with the New York Rangers, and with the Colorado Avalanche, because there was nothing in his way. Good for him.

He has played on the same level of competition as Kähkönen, and Kähkönen has outperformed him in every single occasion, at least that's my view of seeing them both play in three separate leagues and competition. In the very least, even if you just want to rely on simple stats, they are basically equal.

How one can say that Georgiev somehow has a higher ceiling is beyond me. I guess if that means can Georgiev play out of his mind, and get a 50 shot shutout more likely than Kähkönen? I guess, yeah. But if that means he's also performing worse on 7/10 games than Kähkönen, I don't give a flying f*** about that single great performance.

Look, I've been one of the biggest defenders of Georgiev over the years here, so this is not a rant coming from a Georgiev hater. I'm not even mad at him, I'm just mad at Bednar for refusing to go with any other option unless it's literally forced on him, and I'm equally (if not more) mad at the management for allowing Bednar to continue with this bullshit.

Even if we go ahead and accept that Georgiev is the #1 (which I'm willing to do, because I can't see them trading for a goalie), there is NO f***ING EXCUSE for continuing to play him the amount of games he did last year, not involving the backup almost at all. It cannot continue.

I want a regular goalie rotation. We've had it for numerous years before Georgiev. The last goalie to play over 60 games for the Avs before Georgiev was Varlamov in 13-14. And that was 10 years ago, when it still was somewhat acceptable for starters to play that much. In that year 8 goalies played more than 60 games. Last year, it was 3: Saros, Georgiev and Hellebuyck

 

[The Abusement Park]

Georgiev has had the benefit of getting the chance to become a full-time starter with the New York Rangers, and with the Colorado Avalanche, because there was nothing in his way. Good for him.

He has played on the same level of competition as Kähkönen, and Kähkönen has outperformed him in every single occasion, at least that's my view of seeing them both play in three separate leagues and competition. In the very least, even if you just want to rely on simple stats, they are basically equal.

How one can say that Georgiev somehow has a higher ceiling is beyond me. I guess if that means can Georgiev play out of his mind, and get a 50 shot shutout more likely than Kähkönen? I guess, yeah. But if that means he's also performing worse on 7/10 games than Kähkönen, I don't give a flying f*** about that single great performance.

Look, I've been one of the biggest defenders of Georgiev over the years here, so this is not a rant coming from a Georgiev hater. I'm not even mad at him, I'm just mad at Bednar for refusing to go with any other option unless it's literally forced on him, and I'm equally (if not more) mad at the management for allowing Bednar to continue with this bullshit.

Even if we go ahead and accept that Georgiev is the #1 (which I'm willing to do, because I can't see them trading for a goalie), there is NO f***ING EXCUSE for continuing to play him the amount of games he did last year, not involving the backup almost at all. It cannot continue.

It's about skillsets. Georgievs skillset in terms of his athleticism, speed, quickness, etc is by far higher than anyone else on the Avs. He's clearly f***ed mentally right now, but even with that being the case Annunen has been only slightly better than Georgiev this year. Aka getting Georgiev mentally in a good spot is of utmost importance because it A) improves the teams ceiling and B) will make his trade value less horrible than it already is.

 

[henchman21]

Georgiev has had the benefit of getting the chance to become a full-time starter with the New York Rangers, and with the Colorado Avalanche, because there was nothing in his way. Good for him.

He has played on the same level of competition as Kähkönen, and Kähkönen has outperformed him in every single occasion, at least that's my view of seeing them both play in three separate leagues and competition. In the very least, even if you just want to rely on simple stats, they are basically equal.

How one can say that Georgiev somehow has a higher ceiling is beyond me. I guess if that means can Georgiev play out of his mind, and get a 50 shot shutout more likely than Kähkönen? I guess, yeah. But if that means he's also performing worse on 7/10 games than Kähkönen, I don't give a flying f*** about that single great performance.

Look, I've been one of the biggest defenders of Georgiev over the years here, so this is not a rant coming from a Georgiev hater. I'm not even mad at him, I'm just mad at Bednar for refusing to go with any other option unless it's literally forced on him, and I'm equally (if not more) mad at the management for allowing Bednar to continue with this bullshit.

Even if we go ahead and accept that Georgiev is the #1 (which I'm willing to do, because I can't see them trading for a goalie), there is NO f***ING EXCUSE for continuing to play him the amount of games he did last year, not involving the backup almost at all. It cannot continue.

I want a regular goalie rotation. We've had it for numerous years before Georgiev. The last goalie to play over 60 games for the Avs before Georgiev was Varlamov in 13-14. And that was 10 years ago, when it still was somewhat acceptable for starters to play that much. In that year 8 goalies played more than 60 games. Last year, it was 3: Saros, Georgiev and Hellebuyck

To be clear, I'm not saying you're wrong in your evaluation. Just you're in a very small minority on Georgiev/Kahkonen. Sometimes the minority opinions on guys are correct and you might be. I disagree with it, but that is just my evaluation. Doesn't hold any more weight than yours.

I do agree George plays too many games. In this specific game, it is clear what the Avs are trying to do... he played well, so roll with him to try to get him going.

 

[Muffin]

Georgie saves 27 of 31: He got so lucky tonight! Worst f***ing goalie of all time how does he start??????

Annunen saves 26 of 30: It's clear he's the better goalie, it's not even close!!

The eye test matters. Everyone can see that every save Fourgiev makes is an adventure, he's out of position, rebound goes god knows where. Annunen might not have the athleticism to make the highlight reel saves but he's in good position, calm and just makes the simple saves simple.

Who's more likely to make a save on a cross crease one timer? Probably Fourgiev.
Who's more like to save a simple wrist shot from the point? Definitely Annunen.

It doesn't matter if you can make the highlight reel saves if you make every routine save look difficult.

 

[LOFIN]

To be clear, I'm not saying you're wrong in your evaluation. Just you're in a very small minority on Georgiev/Kahkonen. Sometimes the minority opinions on guys are correct and you might be. I disagree with it, but that is just my evaluation. Doesn't hold any more weight than yours.

I do agree George plays too many games. In this specific game, it is clear what the Avs are trying to do... he played well, so roll with him to try to get him going.

The silver lining is that because Georgiev has sucked, while this is his 4th straight game starting, it is still just his 10th game of the season while we are playing G#17. So I guess I'm willing to give them a bit of a leeway here. BUT, I do want to see Annunen get some games in starting next week. @PHI, @ WSH, @ FLA. Probably should give him the Washington game.

What starts with the Florida game, will be interesting, because that will be a hell of stretch of opponents. @ FLA, @ TBL vs VGK, @DAL, vs EDM. 5 straight games against contenders (well, I guess maybe not Tampa they suck again). Annunen has to play AT LEAST one of those games. To my mind, ideally two.

 

[Pokecheque]

Get Fourgiev in against Washington. Do our bit for the goals record.

Annunen would probably let in about six Great8 goals. He'd exploit Justus's biggest weakness and then some.

 

[henchman21]

The Philly and Tampa games should be Annunen's IMO.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Georgiev is gonna play the next 38 games in a row.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Getting 3 guys back on Friday sounds awesome, but I worry about rust.

Yeah, rust will be there. But these three players with rust are better than the three players without rust they will be replacing.

 

[henchman21]

You know what cures rust... cocaine.

 

[The Abusement Park]

The eye test matters. Everyone can see that every save Fourgiev makes is an adventure, he's out of position, rebound goes god knows where. Annunen might not have the athleticism to make the highlight reel saves but he's in good position, calm and just makes the simple saves simple.

Who's more likely to make a save on a cross crease one timer? Probably Fourgiev.
Who's more like to save a simple wrist shot from the point? Definitely Annunen.

It doesn't matter if you can make the highlight reel saves if you make every routine save look difficult.

I don’t see how the eye test makes Annunen look like this team changer everyday he makes him out to be on this board. He was clearly better to start the season than Georgie, but the last few games he’s been bad. So they switched to Georgiev who objectively had two good games vs NSH and WPG.

 

[Pokecheque]

The eye test matters. Everyone can see that every save Fourgiev makes is an adventure, he's out of position, rebound goes god knows where. Annunen might not have the athleticism to make the highlight reel saves but he's in good position, calm and just makes the simple saves simple.

Who's more likely to make a save on a cross crease one timer? Probably Fourgiev.
Who's more like to save a simple wrist shot from the point? Definitely Annunen.

It doesn't matter if you can make the highlight reel saves if you make every routine save look difficult.

This is why eye tests can fail--bias leaks in almost every time.

Fourgiev has made plenty of routine saves during this latest stretch, and also made the ones you admit Annunen probably wouldn't make. I'd argue the glove save he made in OT to keep the game going is likely (but I can't say definitely) one that Annunen doesn't make if he's in there.

Now, what you believe to be "every save is an adventure" comes down to rebound control. Where Annunen succeeds almost every time over Georgiev is that he doesn't cough it up in the worst possible spots and then proceed to flail around like a dying fish. That is 100% why the Preds scored that first goal the other night. In fact he was already sprawled out so that he couldn't even flail for it, and the cousin of both Linda Evangelista and Brendan Shanahan (yep, it's true) had an easy tap-in goal. But I'd argue he also doesn't get beat clean as easy as Annunen does from distance, and thankfully he's not cheating off the post like he did to start this season.

 

[henchman21]

This is why eye tests can fail--bias leaks in almost every time.

I'd argue bias exists in stats evaluations too... which stats are important? Which situations matter? What is good/bad? You can make stats say a lot of things that simply are incorrect. They can also point to certain things that are very good and productive. IE corsi is a terrible stat that really doesn't mean much on its own. Yet if a player takes slot shots at a much higher rate than the rest of the league, that's probably a player that produces goals.

With Annunen... teams have not tried to target his weaknesses consistently. You don't really prepare for backups. When it was known he was going to start a bit, teams started targeting his weaknesses. The more they get on tape, the more they will attack. Does Annunen have a counter?

With George... you have a goalie that has all the athletic traits you could want. He's a disaster mentally. Doesn't track the puck well. And he panics which can cause chaos. Some of that is probably treatable... some won't be.

 

[Avs9296]

You know what cures rust... cocaine.

The league should let Nuke do one last Mega Bump before he comes back for his 1st game. Just to shake the rust off.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

Getting 3 guys back on Friday sounds awesome, but I worry about rust.

You're right to worry about him. He does get hurt a lot, but he doesn't play for the Avs

 

[Muffin]

Didn't someone say Jussi Parkkila has been asking for Bednar to give Annunen more starts? I don't know how to explain Bednar's love for Fourgiev anymore, he literally doesn't even listen to his goalie coach.

 

[Tommy Shelby]

Didn't someone say Jussi Parkkila has been asking for Bednar to give Annunen more starts? I don't know how to explain Bednar's love for Fourgiev anymore, he literally doesn't even listen to his goalie coach.

This is the same guy that never talks to the trainers, should be no surprise