This Pittsburgh Penguins Act is Getting Old

[hotpaws]

Like I said, go on the Penguins board and ask other Penguins fans. Ask them whether the team's issues are primary because of Sullivan's coaching decisions of Dubas' roster decisions. No one will defend the job Dubas has done but everyone will say the blame lies primarily on Sullivan. Because we all watch the team and see the problem with the team.

Sully's to blame for what exactly

-the team being not as bad ?
-the team not being a playoff contender ?
-the team not being a cup contender ?

i've been to your board the odd time and there's more than a few people who want Sully fired but also say it won't make much of a difference who the coach is

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Looking at it, Jim Rutherford rage quitting was pretty much it for the Crosby era. Damn.

Yup. Hextall was handed a 1st place team. He then trades McCann for a 7th round pick, Matheson for Petry, and Marino for Ty Smith. Beyond idiotic moves. Dubas continues the trend with poor signings of his own.

FSG, Sullivan, Hextall, and Dubas all have a hand in completely tanking this team. It's over.

 

[hotpaws]

I'm not convinced the East is any better this year, but we'll see how it plays out.

Jersey bouncing back already makes it better than last year .

 

[Empoleon8771]

Sully's to blame for what exactly

-the team being not as bad ?
-the team not being a playoff contender ?
-the team not being a cup contender ?

i've been to your board the odd time and there's more than a few people who want Sully fired but also say it won't make much of a difference who the coach is

Like I said, go on the Penguins board and ask other Penguins fans. Ask them whether the team's issues are primary because of Sullivan's coaching decisions of Dubas' roster decisions.

Go there and they'll reaffirm what I'm saying. Don't just repeat the same points here. Go there and see what they say. You're not listening to me, so go there and ask them. And I'm willing to bet a significant amount of money that what I'm saying is entirely in line with what they'll say. Because I post on there daily and my opinions are aligned with 95% of the opinions there.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

maybe but the east is better this year and the Pens aren't getting any younger or better so i doubt they even sniff the playoffs with a better coaching

Few Pens fans think this is a playoff roster. That doesn't mean they need to look baffled and clueless every night because their coach doesn't accept that what worked 8 years ago doesn't work anymore.

Sullivan has been a problem long before Toronto's favorite scapegoat became a thing. It's the same exact flaws that have been present for years on end, no matter how much turnover there is...and there's been a ton. The roster keeps changing, but the strategy never does.

The fact that Sullivan will get another job immediately keeps being brought up as some sort of reason that the Penguins are lucky to have him and why he can't be fired despite that it's been years since this team has had a valid response to adversity.

 

[Dust]

Jersey bouncing back already makes it better than last year .

Like I said we will see, but we also have Boston off to a poor start, and Islanders don't look great. For every team that's having a bounce back start, there's a team struggling. Looks to be about the same to me.

 

[hotpaws]

Yup. Hextall was handed a 1st place team. He then trades McCann for a 7th round pick, Matheson for Petry, and Marino for Ty Smith. Beyond idiotic moves. Dubas continues the trend with poor signings of his own.

FSG, Sullivan, Hextall, and Dubas all have a hand in completely tanking this team. It's over.

but Empoleon90210 told me your entire board believes Sully is the main reason for your teams woes

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

but Empoleon90210 told me your entire board believes Sully is the main reason for your teams woes

He's the reason they're playing like the worst team in the league. But the roster is cooked as well. Both can be true.

 

[Turin]

but Empoleon90210 told me your entire board believes Sully is the main reason for your teams woes

He's the common denominator the last 4 years of poverty. He's passed his expiration date and things wont get better until he's gone, even if he's as great of a coach as ownership thinks.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

but Empoleon90210 told me your entire board believes Sully is the main reason for your teams woes

A team can be both poorly managed and incompetently coached at the same time. Sorry this can't be 100% Dubas's fault. He sure seems to suck, but pretending that he was handed the keys to a Ferrari is ridiculous.

 

[Turin]

Yup. Hextall was handed a 1st place team. He then trades McCann for a 7th round pick, Matheson for Petry, and Marino for Ty Smith. Beyond idiotic moves. Dubas continues the trend with poor signings of his own.

FSG, Sullivan, Hextall, and Dubas all have a hand in completely tanking this team. It's over.

Hextall ruined the fwds and D. Dubas has improved some of the fwds but completely ate shit with the Graves and Gryz signings, which in turn is ruining the Karlsson add because there's only 1 good NHL player on the left side.

 

[hotpaws]

Like I said, go on the Penguins board and ask other Penguins fans. Ask them whether the team's issues are primary because of Sullivan's coaching decisions of Dubas' roster decisions.

Go there and they'll reaffirm what I'm saying. Don't just repeat the same points here. Go there and see what they say. You're not listening to me, so go there and ask them. And I'm willing to bet a significant amount of money that what I'm saying is entirely in line with what they'll say. Because I post on there daily and my opinions are aligned with 95% of the opinions there.

Luigi from the Pens board summed it up much better than you by blaming multiple people for the state of the Pens unlike yourself who is trying to shift the attention totally onto Sully .

 

[Empoleon8771]

He's the reason they're playing like the worst team in the league. But the roster is cooked as well. Both can be true.

Exactly spot on. The roster is a mess due to all 3 of the last 3 GMs (JR for not leaving any futures, Hextall for giving away numerous good players for nothing and Dubas for making horrid UFA signings), but they're a mediocre roster that is massively underperforming even that. And that is because Sullivan is trying to force a square peg into a round hole by playing this up-tempo fast system that the roster simply cannot be.

Is this team anything better than a fringe playoff team? Of course not, but they're on pace to be one of the worst teams in hockey right now. That's because of Sullivan. With a coach building a system that fits the team, this is a borderline wildcard team that could sneak into the playoffs. As they are now, they're a lottery team in contention for the #1 pick.

Luigi from the Pens board summed it up much better than you by blaming multiple people who are to blame for the state of the Pens unlike yourself who is trying to shift the the attention totally onto Sully .

I literally said "Dubas has done a bad job" multiple times. Learn to read.

There is plenty of blame to go around, but the primary reason is Mike Sullivan. I've been plenty vocal about how JR, Hextall and Dubas are all also partially responsible, but Sullivan is by far the #1 factor.

 

[hotpaws]

Few Pens fans think this is a playoff roster. That doesn't mean they need to look baffled and clueless every night because their coach doesn't accept that what worked 8 years ago doesn't work anymore.

Sullivan has been a problem long before Toronto's favorite scapegoat became a thing. It's the same exact flaws that have been present for years on end, no matter how much turnover there is...and there's been a ton. The roster keeps changing, but the strategy never does.

The fact that Sullivan will get another job immediately keeps being brought up as some sort of reason that the Penguins are lucky to have him and why he can't be fired despite that it's been years since this team has had a valid response to adversity.

if your going to be bad then it's better to be really bad and get a higher pick

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Exactly spot on. The roster is a mess due to all 3 of the last 3 GMs (JR for not leaving any futures, Hextall for giving away numerous good players for nothing and Dubas for making horrid UFA signings), but they're a mediocre roster that is massively underperforming even that. And that is because Sullivan is trying to force a square peg into a round hole by playing this up-tempo fast system that the roster simply cannot be.

Is this team anything better than a fringe playoff team? Of course not, but they're on pace to be one of the worst teams in hockey right now. That's because of Sullivan. With a coach building a system that fits the team, this is a borderline wildcard team that could sneak into the playoffs. As they are now, they're a lottery team in contention for the #1 pick.



I literally said "Dubas has done a bad job" multiple times. Learn to read.

There is plenty of blame to go around, but the primary reason is Mike Sullivan. I've been plenty vocal about how JR, Hextall and Dubas are all also partially responsible, but Sullivan is by far the #1 factor.

True i forgot to include JR. Still hard to believe we gave away 2 first round picks for Kapanen and Zucker.

 

[hotpaws]

He's the reason they're playing like the worst team in the league. But the roster is cooked as well. Both can be true.

I agree and said exactly the same thing but it triggered Empo for some reason .

 

[Big McLargehuge]

if your going to be bad then it's better to be really bad and get a higher picl

If that's the point then Dubas is doing a great job.

Doesn't change that Sullivan looks as out of his element as Mike Johnston or Eddie Olczyk did.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I agree and said exactly the same thing but it triggered Empo for some reason .

You are aware that Luigi is saying literally the same exact thing I was saying?

Dubas hasn't done a good job as GM, but trying to defend Sullivan and shifting blame to Dubas is a dead giveaway that you're clueless and don't actually watch the Penguins. This is a mediocre roster that ends up a bad team because Mike Sullivan is a stubborn fool who's rather lose than admit he's wrong.

He's the reason they're playing like the worst team in the league. But the roster is cooked as well. Both can be true.

You're sitting here saying "Dubas is keeping Sullivan to protect himself" and "the Penguins aren't going anywhere with what Dubas has added". But the reality is that Dubas is one of 3 GMs responsible for why the roster is super mediocre (fringe wildcard team), and Sullivan is the reason why they're playing like one of the worst teams in hockey.

 

[Turin]

The Pens have a unique Frankenstein franchise ever since Rutherford quit. Nothing about it is natural. January 2021 is when the dominos started to fall for the whole operation.

Your GM just has a senior moment and quits a few weeks into the season. Your very successful ownership decides it’s not too invested anymore so gives the keys to a former player and popular NHL personality who had no recent success in Hextall and Burke, then sells the team to a faceless investment group. That group fires Hextall after his abysmal 2022 just 2 years after being hired, and then hands the coach an extension with no GM. Then they hire Dubas, who’s stuck with Sullivan for the mean time and completely overhauls every department except the coaching. Now the main guys in FSG who hired Dubas left after one year. Now we don’t even know who is involved in owning the team.

Like it’s just way, way too much turnover in a small time in every area accept the most disposable position, which is coaching.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The Pens have a unique Frankenstein franchise ever since Rutherford quit. Nothing about it is natural. January 2021 is when the dominos started to fall for the whole operation.

Your GM just has a senior moment and quits a few weeks into the season. Your very successful ownership decides it’s not too invested anymore so gives the keys to a former player and popular NHL personality who had no recent success in Hextall and Burke, then sells the team to a faceless investment group. That group fires Hextall after his abysmal 2022 just 2 years after being hired, and then hands the coach an extension with no GM. Then they hire Dubas, who’s stuck with Sullivan for the mean time and completely overhauls every department except the coaching.

Like it’s just way, way too much turnover in a small time in every area accept the most disposable position, which is coaching.

This was actually something I thought about as well, Hextall did a terrible job with the Penguins (mostly from his terrible 2022 off-season) but it's pretty bizarre that he got fired after only 2.5 seasons while Sullivan has lasted as long as he has. Especially when they were a pretty good team in the first 2 years and Hextall actually made some good moves in those two years. I don't miss Hextall even a little bit, but I do admit it is a bit odd that he's the only guy that faced and sort of consequences for their collapse in 2023. I honestly wonder if the horrid Granlund trade and the whole hockey world laughing at him was the reason he got fired.

I don't want to "blame" Lemieux in any of this either, but he really checked out and selling off to FSG didn't leave the team in a good spot. It also seemed like there was some animosity in it, wasn't Lemieux not involved for a year or so when FSG first took over?

 

[hotpaws]

Exactly spot on. The roster is a mess due to all 3 of the last 3 GMs (JR for not leaving any futures, Hextall for giving away numerous good players for nothing and Dubas for making horrid UFA signings), but they're a mediocre roster that is massively underperforming even that. And that is because Sullivan is trying to force a square peg into a round hole by playing this up-tempo fast system that the roster simply cannot be.

Is this team anything better than a fringe playoff team? Of course not, but they're on pace to be one of the worst teams in hockey right now. That's because of Sullivan. With a coach building a system that fits the team, this is a borderline wildcard team that could sneak into the playoffs. As they are now, they're a lottery team in contention for the #1 pick.



I literally said "Dubas has done a bad job" multiple times. Learn to read.

There is plenty of blame to go around, but the primary reason is Mike Sullivan. I've been plenty vocal about how JR, Hextall and Dubas are all also partially responsible, but Sullivan is by far the #1 factor.

let me get this straight

-Dubas has done a bad job but we should only discuss how bad Sully is
-the teams roster is a mess but we should only discuss how bad Sully is
-at best this roster is a fringe playoff team but we should only discuss how bad Sully is

and even though the core are long in the tooth and the current and previous GM have have been bad Sully is the primary person to blame for some reason so we should only discuss how bad he is

am i getting your points correct ?

 

[Empoleon8771]

let me get this straight

-Dubas has done a bad job but we should only discuss how bad Sully is
-the teams roster is a mess but we should only discuss how bad Sully is
-at best this roster is a fringe playoff team but we should only discuss how bad Sully is

and even though the core are long in the tooth and the current and previous GM have have been bad Sully is the primary person to blame for some reason so we should only discuss how bad he is

am i getting your points correct ?

You're not getting the points correct because you're a Leafs fan who wants to just jerk off about how bad Dubas is. Just because it makes you feel better about your loser team who's going to waste Matthews career as a team that loses in the 1st round ever year.

Penguins fans are completely in line with what I'm saying. You're just mad that Penguins fans don't blame Dubas 100% for the issues this team has.

 

[Turin]

This was actually something I thought about as well, Hextall did a terrible job with the Penguins (mostly from his terrible 2022 off-season) but it's pretty bizarre that he got fired after only 2.5 seasons while Sullivan has lasted as long as he has. I don't miss Hextall even a little bit, but I do admit it is a bit odd that he's the only guy that faced and sort of consequences for their collapse in 2023. I honestly wonder if the horrid Granlund trade and the whole hockey world laughing at him was the reason he got fired.

I don't want to "blame" Lemieux in any of this either, but he really checked out and selling off to FSG didn't leave the team in a good spot. It also seemed like there was some animosity in it, wasn't Lemieux not involved for a year or so when FSG first took over?

Yea, the fact that FSG was willing to fire Hextall after a year yet be slow on the uptick to literally everything else seems bizarre. I mean, I don't doubt that Sullivan is a better coach/more confident personality than Hextall is GM/person but it's still weird. There were rumours that Lemieux was being shut out, but I have no idea how credible that was. If anything Mario has seemed like he wanted to move on for a long time. He certainly, if he wants, has the pull to make any spot he wants for himself - he would just need to go to the press and make even the most minor of stinks and he would get anything he wanted.

Now we have no idea who is even tethered to the Hockey Ops from ownership because Beaston left this summer.

 

[hotpaws]

You're not getting the points correct because you're a Leafs fan who wants to just jerk off about how bad Dubas is. Just because it makes you feel better about your loser team who's going to waste Matthews career as a team that loses in the 1st round ever year.

Penguins fans are completely in line with what I'm saying. You're just mad that Penguins fans don't blame Dubas 100% for the issues this team has.

we'll see what happens with my Leafs once the 11m dollar loser Tavares is off the books

sad your reduced to lying since you can't make a coherent argument why everyone should just concentrate on bashing Sullivan , cool

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Yea, the fact that FSG was willing to fire Hextall after a year yet keep be slow on the uptick to literally everything else seems bizarre. I mean, I don't doubt that Sullivan is a better coach/more confident personality than Hextall is GM/person but it's still weird. There were rumours that Lemieux was being shut out, but I have no idea how credible that was. If anything Mario has seemed like he wanted to move on for a long time. He certainly, if he wants, has the pull to make any spot he wants for himself - he would just need to go to the press and make even the most minor of stinks and he would get anything he wanted.

Now we have no idea who is even tethered to the Hockey Ops from ownership because Beaston left this summer.

I think Hextall pissed them off immediately when they asked for a written plan for the team and he apparently said it was in his head. After that they were going to fire him first chance they got. Sullivan is part of the Boston fraternity so is untouchable.