This is where the Russians go wrong

[Big Phil]

As a Canadian who loves Canada-Russia classis games more than anyhting I can't help but notice a big difference in the way the Russians play as opposed to back in the 70s and 80s. First off througout the 80s the Russians were Canada's biggest nemesis. In the '84 and '87 Canada Cup they were an OT goal away form winning it while they stomped us in '81. But take even the '06 WJC Gold Medal game, I felt that in recent years the Russians have been guilty of being too individualistic on the ice. Look at the tapes from the '87 Canada Cup, you've got the KLM line and Fetisov and Kasatonov on defence. Supremely skilled. But look at how they use each other so well. They were all skilled but the way they would pass to each other its as though they all made each other better all the time.

Now Ovechkin, Kovalchuk and Malkin are great players but especially Ovechkin seems to not make the players around him better. The Russians would have beaten Canada in the WJC if they had play more as a team. As Phil Esposito once said "If you play as team, it beats all the talent in the world!"

Which also brings me to 1972. There were times in the Summit series where the Russians made Canada look foolish. Their puck possession and the way they used everyone one the ice. That's something that the Russians need to get back to if they want to be succesful again. I know it was easier too play as a team when you're playing together all year round, but other countries have adopted that team concept where as the Russians have gotten away from it.

Click to read more...

 

[Siberian]

As a Canadian who loves Canada-Russia classis games more than anyhting I can't help but notice a big difference in the way the Russians play as opposed to back in the 70s and 80s. First off througout the 80s the Russians were Canada's biggest nemesis. In the '84 and '87 Canada Cup they were an OT goal away form winning it while they stomped us in '81. But take even the '06 WJC Gold Medal game, I felt that in recent years the Russians have been guilty of being too individualistic on the ice. Look at the tapes from the '87 Canada Cup, you've got the KLM line and Fetisov and Kasatonov on defence. Supremely skilled. But look at how they use each other so well. They were all skilled but the way they would pass to each other its as though they all made each other better all the time.

Now Ovechkin, Kovalchuk and Malkin are great players but especially Ovechkin seems to not make the players around him better. The Russians would have beaten Canada in the WJC if they had play more as a team. As Phil Esposito once said "If you play as team, it beats all the talent in the world!"

Which also brings me to 1972. There were times in the Summit series where the Russians made Canada look foolish. Their puck possession and the way they used everyone one the ice. That's something that the Russians need to get back to if they want to be succesful again. I know it was easier too play as a team when you're playing together all year round, but other countries have adopted that team concept where as the Russians have gotten away from it.

Wrong! Can't really beat the referee and the officials. The count I made after carefully studying the game was Russia should have had 16 penalty minutes and Canada 30 instead of 20 and 14. Russian team was fine until the ref interefered and started giving phantom calls and not notice canadian penalties. Russia should not change a thing in their game.

 

[gr8haluschak]

Wrong! Can't really beat the referee and the officials. The count I made after carefully studying the game was Russia should have had 16 penalty minutes and Canada 30 instead of 20 and 14. Russian team was fine until the ref interefered and started giving phantom calls and not notice canadian penalties. Russia should not change a thing in their game.

Oh give me a break, was it the refs fault that Khudobin gave up 5 goals, was it the refs fault that you could not score, I am sorry I must have missed the fact that the ref had a hockey stick in his hand and was whacking away at rebounds. You talk all about those "phantom calls" you want some talk BS calls - what about Downy's first penalty of the game - was that a charge - no he glided into the Russian, ie he did not take mor ethan the three strides before he hit him. Or what about Khudobin's attempt to make the Russian javelin team, but I must have missed the new IIHF rules where you can toss sticks in the air. As well what about the elbow/blow to the head that the Russian player gave the Canadian player right after the missed goal.

You want to know why your team lost - Russia Quit after falling 2 - 0 plain and simple.

 

[Den]

I don't get it what are you discussing here? We are still better then you at the junior level. We have a positive balance in games with Canada (17-12-2). And a positive balance in elimination games as of late (4-2). So what's the talk about? You still have a job to do. Grind on

 

[Den]

You want to know why your team lost - Russia Quit after falling 2 - 0 plain and simple.

Yepp, we were watching to different games then. But, of course, if you say it is "plain and simple", it makes it so!

 

[Seachd]

Yepp, we were watching to different games then. But, of course, if you say it is "plain and simple", it makes it so!

Then what would you say is the reason Russia lost?

 

[supreme_reverend]

I don't get it what are you discussing here? We are still better then you at the junior level. We have a positive balance in games with Canada (17-12-2). And a positive balance in elimination games as of late (4-2). So what's the talk about? You still have a job to do. Grind on

Regardless of what you say Canada is still the best hockey nation in the world we dominate it and will continue to and when we go to the olympics there will be another gold medal coming back to canada.

 

[Den]

Wrong! Can't really beat the referee and the officials. The count I made after carefully studying the game was Russia should have had 16 penalty minutes and Canada 30 instead of 20 and 14. Russian team was fine until the ref interefered and started giving phantom calls and not notice canadian penalties. Russia should not change a thing in their game.

I think you are too hard on the ref. The no-goal is not his fault (well he should have stopped the game to watch it, but...). It's the one-ref systems that is to blame. The penalties, well, may be Canada got a little less then they should have, but that's a minor thing. But, nevertheless, something tells me we'll see a lot of whining N Americans next year in Sweden. There's no freaking way the refs will allow the hitting game (even a clean one) the way we saw it here (and it was mostly clean)... Just diff. part of the world, different ice, different home crowd. And I hope, A BUNCH OF US COMING TO CHEER to a not so far away Sweden

 

[Digger12]

Phil makes a good observation here.

When I look back at the Russian powerhouses of the 70's and 80's, there's two things that set them apart from everyone else:

1) They came at you in 5 man waves, with everyone working in near perfect synchronicity with each other.

2) IMO they were in better physical condition than any other hockey team on the planet.

The talent is still there, but these two edges they had are no longer. They play more like 5 extremely talented individuals, and the rest of the world has caught up to them when it comes to training methods.

 

[supreme_reverend]

I think you are too hard on the ref. The no-goal is not his fault (well he should have stopped the game to watch it, but...). It's the one-ref systems that is to blame. The penalties, well, may be Canada got a little less then they should have, but that's a minor thing. But, nevertheless, something tells me we'll see a lot of whining N Americans next year in Sweden. There's no freaking way the refs will allow the hitting game (even a clean one) the way we saw it here (and it was mostly clean)... Just diff. part of the world, different ice, different home crowd. And I hope, A BUNCH OF US COMING TO CHEER to a not so far away Sweden

Ya unfortunatly when the juniors are in Europe then ya the refrees don't let the game be played the way it is supposed to be with hard hits. But that won't stop Canada from repeating because we have won in europe before without being able to throw those big clean body checks.

 

[Siberian]

I think you are too hard on the ref. The no-goal is not his fault (well he should have stopped the game to watch it, but...). It's the one-ref systems that is to blame. The penalties, well, may be Canada got a little less then they should have, but that's a minor thing. But, nevertheless, something tells me we'll see a lot of whining N Americans next year in Sweden. There's no freaking way the refs will allow the hitting game (even a clean one) the way we saw it here (and it was mostly clean)... Just diff. part of the world, different ice, different home crowd. And I hope, A BUNCH OF US COMING TO CHEER to a not so far away Sweden

The no goal was the last straw that broke Camels back, before that there were phantom calls on Emelin and Zubov, no calls on Pogge for tripping and Boyd for roughing, these are the mainly calls that the changed the outcome of the game when they changed momentum and did not allow Russia 2 5 on 3 power plays.

 

[Den]

Regardless of what you say Canada is still the best hockey nation in the world we dominate it

I didn't say much I just quoted my numbers. Would you like to give yours to support this homerism?

and will continue to and when we go to the olympics there will be another gold medal coming back to canada.

Must be so if you say so

 

[Den]

Ya unfortunatly when the juniors are in Europe then ya the refrees don't let the game be played the way it is supposed to be with hard hits. But that won't stop Canada from repeating because we have won in europe before without being able to throw those big clean body checks.

Stupid me. Abolutely nothing can stop you

 

[#66]

As a Canadian who loves Canada-Russia classis games more than anyhting I can't help but notice a big difference in the way the Russians play as opposed to back in the 70s and 80s. First off througout the 80s the Russians were Canada's biggest nemesis. In the '84 and '87 Canada Cup they were an OT goal away form winning it while they stomped us in '81. But take even the '06 WJC Gold Medal game, I felt that in recent years the Russians have been guilty of being too individualistic on the ice. Look at the tapes from the '87 Canada Cup, you've got the KLM line and Fetisov and Kasatonov on defence. Supremely skilled. But look at how they use each other so well. They were all skilled but the way they would pass to each other its as though they all made each other better all the time.

Now Ovechkin, Kovalchuk and Malkin are great players but especially Ovechkin seems to not make the players around him better. The Russians would have beaten Canada in the WJC if they had play more as a team. As Phil Esposito once said "If you play as team, it beats all the talent in the world!"

Which also brings me to 1972. There were times in the Summit series where the Russians made Canada look foolish. Their puck possession and the way they used everyone one the ice. That's something that the Russians need to get back to if they want to be succesful again. I know it was easier too play as a team when you're playing together all year round, but other countries have adopted that team concept where as the Russians have gotten away from it.

BBBOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Den]

Then what would you say is the reason Russia lost?

Pogge+bad Malkin+lost pile ups on the crease+better Canadian defense

 

[Den]

BBBOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

Yea, that was more of a philosophic remark...

 

[Den]

no calls on Pogge for tripping

Yea, I remember that one. But it was marginal....

 

[Resolute]

There's no freaking way the refs will allow the hitting game (even a clean one) the way we saw it here (and it was mostly clean)

And there in lies the problem with hockey in Europe. Physical play is clean, but their referees invent their own rules to outlaw it.

 

[gr8haluschak]

Yepp, we were watching to different games then. But, of course, if you say it is "plain and simple", it makes it so!

Hmm seems you were outshooting us badly at that point, the majority of the play was inm team Canada's end as well, then comes the second period where Russia was caught running around and it continued into the third - but yeah Russia did not quit

 

[Den]

And there in lies the problem with hockey in Europe. Physical play is clean, but their referees invent their own rules to outlaw it.

Yea, I also think Europe should clamp down on hooking and promote physical game. Although the SM-League and the RSL move in that direction.

I don't think the rules are not invented however, they are interprted differently. And as with many interpretations, should't it have the right to be out there? You don't like it, I don't like it, but nonetheless Canada has to deal with it.

 

[mytor4*]

Yepp, we were watching to different games then. But, of course, if you say it is "plain and simple", it makes it so!

here read in between the lines 5 TO -0. if that is not plain and simple i don't know what is.

 

[Den]

here read in between the lines 5 TO -0. if that is not plain and simple i don't know what is.

Let's go through this again: The condition of the problem: "Scoreline: 5:0". The answer to the problem: "Russia stopped playing after the 1-st period". Uhmmm. Wrong answer. You failed the test. Did Canada "stop playing" in 81?

 

[bert]

Wrong! Can't really beat the referee and the officials. The count I made after carefully studying the game was Russia should have had 16 penalty minutes and Canada 30 instead of 20 and 14. Russian team was fine until the ref interefered and started giving phantom calls and not notice canadian penalties. Russia should not change a thing in their game.

This is the most pathetic post I have ever read on hfboards.

 

[gr8haluschak]

Let's go through this again: The condition of the problem: "Scoreline: 5:0". The answer to the problem: "Russia stopped playing after the 1-st period". Uhmmm. Wrong answer. You failed the test. Did Canada "stop playing" in 81?

What happened then - Russia is outworking Canada, outshooting Canada, and outplaying Canada during the first by the of the game Cnada outshot them, outworked them, and outplayed them, umm yeah but Russia did not quit

 

[Malignant]

And there in lies the problem with hockey in Europe. Physical play is clean, but their referees invent their own rules to outlaw it.

Could say the same for soccer too. The English Premiership doesn't mind the odd physical game but the refs in Europe seem to change the rules during the UEFA Champions League.

Anyway I'm getting off topic.