This is a Bad Hockey Team: Part 2
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DeadPuck
Registered User
pld459666
Registered User
I'm not going to bash Torts. I'm not going to say that this is a bad team.
What I am going to say is that it doesn't appear to be a team suited for a Torts style of coaching.
I don't believe for one second that we are getting the most out of guys like Gaborik and Nash when we have them dump and chase. Work the walls and try to generate offence from behind the net.
I will bash whoever is running the PP and the guy that decides on the personel used for the PP because if the coaches are asking one thing and the players are doing another, then those players need to never see PP time again. HOWEVER, if the players are doing what the coaches WANT, then that guy needs to go as he has no idea how to run a PP.
I think the Rangers have a very good team. But I think the players that are here are better under a different approach.
It's only 7 games in I know. But the issues that plagued us last year are still evident and worse is that we have yet to see this team put forth a complete effort against decent team.
In this shortened season, you can't take 20% of the season to get right. By then, you could be on the outside looking in with a BIG hill to climb in a veyr short period of time.
Not liking what I have seen so far.
What I am going to say is that it doesn't appear to be a team suited for a Torts style of coaching.
I don't believe for one second that we are getting the most out of guys like Gaborik and Nash when we have them dump and chase. Work the walls and try to generate offence from behind the net.
I will bash whoever is running the PP and the guy that decides on the personel used for the PP because if the coaches are asking one thing and the players are doing another, then those players need to never see PP time again. HOWEVER, if the players are doing what the coaches WANT, then that guy needs to go as he has no idea how to run a PP.
I think the Rangers have a very good team. But I think the players that are here are better under a different approach.
It's only 7 games in I know. But the issues that plagued us last year are still evident and worse is that we have yet to see this team put forth a complete effort against decent team.
In this shortened season, you can't take 20% of the season to get right. By then, you could be on the outside looking in with a BIG hill to climb in a veyr short period of time.
Not liking what I have seen so far.
I hated his methods of coaching from day one in NY. He simply got lucky last year that more players didn't get long term injuries with shot blocking system that he is created. The PP might get a little better this year, but they'll be still ranked near the bottom of the league. I can't recognize a solid PP plan outside the dump and chase one that everyone hate on this board. Every team in this league must score a PP goal when given an opportunity to play 5 against 3. (does not apply to the Rangers) In my opinion if you can't score when given a chance like that then you don't deserve to win a game.
Wait, what? The Nash-Richards-Gaborik line has been creative and successful to start the season. Last night was the first game they weren't very noticeable.
If you're implying that Torts' system is not suited for them, then the logical result is that it should work for the rest of the roster - and its not - they are playing far, far worse. Seems to me you're taking a cheap shot at the coach over the fact that his players are simply not playing well (besides the one line you strangely picked as an example).
HockeyBasedNYC
Feeling it
2 Posts and bad mental errors at the wrong time.
Sure, they didn't play a great game - but neither did Pittsburgh. To me its been more about mental errors, PP play and sustaining their battle level that's been evident in most of the losses. Those things are correctable and come with time.
Of course it hurts losing Cally, some guys are under performing not putting the puck in the net and they could use another deft forward, but I dont think they are a bad hockey team - especially when 80% of the team is back from last year and they added Nash.
It would be nice if this was happening in a full season instead of shortened one. I really think a Torts' style team relies heavily on a full training camp and when you dont have that you build as you go. We may see 2 good games followed by a dud, and then 3 or 4 decent ones followed by another. I think a lot of teams are going through that.
Its going to be a battle all season, just get to the dance.
Sure, they didn't play a great game - but neither did Pittsburgh. To me its been more about mental errors, PP play and sustaining their battle level that's been evident in most of the losses. Those things are correctable and come with time.
Of course it hurts losing Cally, some guys are under performing not putting the puck in the net and they could use another deft forward, but I dont think they are a bad hockey team - especially when 80% of the team is back from last year and they added Nash.
It would be nice if this was happening in a full season instead of shortened one. I really think a Torts' style team relies heavily on a full training camp and when you dont have that you build as you go. We may see 2 good games followed by a dud, and then 3 or 4 decent ones followed by another. I think a lot of teams are going through that.
Its going to be a battle all season, just get to the dance.
Blueshirt Special
Shady Brey
I'm starting to think it's not going to be "our year".
More personnel changes than I realized, it's not a coherent group yet, short season and now we lost Cally.
I know Callahan's injury is not as serious as first thought, but he will miss at least another 4 games and may take another 4-5 before he gets to form. By then we could be in a deep hole which we may never get out of this season.
Long term I like our team, but this PP has GOT to be fixed or we are going no where in the playoffs anyway.
More personnel changes than I realized, it's not a coherent group yet, short season and now we lost Cally.
I know Callahan's injury is not as serious as first thought, but he will miss at least another 4 games and may take another 4-5 before he gets to form. By then we could be in a deep hole which we may never get out of this season.
Long term I like our team, but this PP has GOT to be fixed or we are going no where in the playoffs anyway.
Nyrvana
Registered User
Reality:
Played the Pens twice, Bruins twice, Flyers twice, Maple Leafs once.
3 of those teams will be in the top 6 of the Eastern Conference.
Anyone that expected to come hot out of the gate is dillusional with the changes that we made over the last year and Hank not playing during the lockout.
We will win 9 out of the 12 games in February with the only "tough" games being the Devils, Bruins again, and the Senators. All those games are away. Have to figure we win at least one of those 3 and lose one of the games we should win.
Give the team some time, and don't be that fan that jumps ship just because we look bad against 3 very good teams.
Played the Pens twice, Bruins twice, Flyers twice, Maple Leafs once.
3 of those teams will be in the top 6 of the Eastern Conference.
Anyone that expected to come hot out of the gate is dillusional with the changes that we made over the last year and Hank not playing during the lockout.
We will win 9 out of the 12 games in February with the only "tough" games being the Devils, Bruins again, and the Senators. All those games are away. Have to figure we win at least one of those 3 and lose one of the games we should win.
Give the team some time, and don't be that fan that jumps ship just because we look bad against 3 very good teams.
pld459666
Registered User
What I mean is that these are not guys that should be playing the game with their backs to the net. Fighting for pucks along the wall and behind the net.
These are players that should be looking to skate and generate offence in front of the goalie.
The dump and chase style of grinding it out is not suited for these players and because they happen to be our best players, it's under any system that they will be the guys that generate points, but aside from the Boston and Toronto games, they have been less than they should be.
Nash has 1 goal and 5 assists on the season. His lone goal coming in garbage time against Pitt in a 6-3 loss.
Richards has half his points in the Boston OT win and the Toronto game.
Gaborik has all 5 goals and 7 of his 8 points in the Boston and Toronto games. 1 assist in the other 5 games played.
They have not been good, the team has not been good.
It's my opinion that the team as structured is a good team. I do not believe that they are structured to play a Torts styled system.
Agree 100%. The system we play and the fear he puts in players that make mistakes has created a tentative team in the offensive zone. We do not fight to the death for pucks. The second we sense we are losing the battle or will not get to a rebound in front we retreat. We never get to loose pucks in front of the net. My guess is because our forwards are already thinking defense and not getting caught. Safe is death I thought.
I was never a fan of stacking the first line. One of Torts' biggest flaws as a coach is impatience. He doesn't allow for offensive chemistry to develop with all the line shuffling and what he's missing is that our breakouts are also affected because our forwards just do not know what their linemates are going to do. This leads to too many neutral zone loose pucks that we should be carrying into the O-zone. And btw, the serial dump and chase is not going to work because we do not win enough 50/50 battles. And finally, Bickle (who i admire) cannot play in the National Hockey League, Rupp is unfortunately finished (never wins puck battles anymore), Boyle (who is doing much better in the dot) cannot do anything offensively...ever. On a positive note, I thought Gilroy played a good game.
Jabroni
The People's Champ
- Jun 1, 2008
- 7,526
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Stepan, along with Hagelin and McDonagh were our only good players last night. he will produce as he always has. Dubi was very frustating to watch. He is a warrior but there are alot of holes in his game and he already reached his potential. Step has plenty of room to grow. I'll take my chances with Step.
OverTheCap
Registered User
- Jan 3, 2009
- 10,454
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I am not seeing a system that limits creativity. I see a team that, outside of the first line, lacks creative players. And I am seeing players that aren't engaged and are playing sloppy hockey - players that look unprepared for an NHL season.
Also, people complaining about Stepan's inability to finish and wish we kept Dubinsky. Does not compute.
RangerBoy
Dolan sucks!!!
The Rangers don't have the $ to address their all of their needs. They have over $7M tied up in Drury and Redden in the $70.2M cap. Even next season with those two off the books and the cap set at $64.3M. The Rangers have 45% of their payroll tied up in 4 players. It doesn't leave much for remaining 18 players plus operating the team during the season. Trades. Injuries. Call ups. The Rangers D is better than last season. Mac and Girardi picked up where they left off. Staal is healthy. Knock on wood. DZ is playing his best hockey. Stralman has become a capable player. They need another D. A competent D. A lefty. Nash won't score only 1 goal. Mitchell wasn't on the team until after Thanksgiving. They need Kreider to get healthy and step up. Hagelin needs to start producing. Maybe his production last season was an aberration. They need to get Bickel off the wing. Go find another forward.
Wamsutta
I'm Glen Sather IRL
This team has a 1st line and three 3rd lines (gee sound familiar? Renney era Rangers hockey is back, but with a better 1st line)
There's no offensive talent outside of those top guys, no system Torts invents can turn Brian Boyle or Taylor Pyatt or this new Fiero guy into a sniper
They may well turn it around and manage to put together another season where they eek out 1 or 2 goal wins again like last year but this is just not an offensive powerhouse team. Sather doesn't seem capable of building them that way.
There's no offensive talent outside of those top guys, no system Torts invents can turn Brian Boyle or Taylor Pyatt or this new Fiero guy into a sniper
They may well turn it around and manage to put together another season where they eek out 1 or 2 goal wins again like last year but this is just not an offensive powerhouse team. Sather doesn't seem capable of building them that way.
Dagoon44
Registered User
very un Dagoon 44 like post
I need to say a few things today about this team
Brian Boyle
one good season nothing since and wow he is horrible any where near the net. Blocks shots for a living because anything else he is horrible the guy handles the puck like a bomb is taped to his hands.
Mike Rupp
great locker room guy but wow the skill set has fallen off the face of the earth.. no hands no legs and lost every fight this season time for Man****ter to get the call up..
Arron Asham
slow (maybe the groin bad?) hasn't won a fight nothing to the table and looks lost.
Derrick Stephan looks like a small Boyle no hands so far at all and blocking shots is great and in own zone looked fine but the offesne needs to come and quick.
Jeff Halpern complete bust so far can win a draw horrible in O zone and whats the need for him if the face off part is failing?
This is a very incomplete team
1 top line 1/2 a second line and 4 defensemen
the depth is not there all spare parts come on guess the excuses need to stop call these guys out and get moving
I need to say a few things today about this team
Brian Boyle
one good season nothing since and wow he is horrible any where near the net. Blocks shots for a living because anything else he is horrible the guy handles the puck like a bomb is taped to his hands.
Mike Rupp
great locker room guy but wow the skill set has fallen off the face of the earth.. no hands no legs and lost every fight this season time for Man****ter to get the call up..
Arron Asham
slow (maybe the groin bad?) hasn't won a fight nothing to the table and looks lost.
Derrick Stephan looks like a small Boyle no hands so far at all and blocking shots is great and in own zone looked fine but the offesne needs to come and quick.
Jeff Halpern complete bust so far can win a draw horrible in O zone and whats the need for him if the face off part is failing?
This is a very incomplete team
1 top line 1/2 a second line and 4 defensemen
the depth is not there all spare parts come on guess the excuses need to stop call these guys out and get moving
Well, might as well chime in like everyone else.
Two things that concern me most are:
1.- Lack of speed at the center position. This is a speed league first and foremost. Richards has lost a step and was never fast even in his prime, Stepan has only average speed and hasn't seemed to improve his first step or quickness as some average skaters seem to do, Boyle is less than an average skater in terms of speed. This is hurting us bringing the puck up the ice, crossing the red line, and penetrating the other team's end. Our center ice men can't back other teams up with speed thus creating rooms for their wingers to put themselves into scoring positions. No help is coming here and it is a problem without a solution. Though both AA and Dubi were frustrating and maddeningly inconsistent they were both better than average skaters, maybe not speed burners, but better than average and could carry the puck. They're gone and though you could not say no to the Nash trade, not having these two guys hurts.
2. Lack of physical intensity. We are a finesse team in league where physical play ramps up the emotional level of a team. Our compete level is to low. We don't have a crash bang, energy 4th line. Again, we miss Dubi. We miss Prust though I would not have resigned him for what he was asking. Hell, we miss Avery.
I'm not a Torts fan and much prefer a Renney type of coach. But you can't deny that he has done a great job that last few years. If you have a coach you believe it, who has had success, who is organized and has a plan, you can't think of getting rid of him when things go bad. Teams fire coaches to quickly. Torts deserves a break, even from fans like me who don't particularly care for him
Two things that concern me most are:
1.- Lack of speed at the center position. This is a speed league first and foremost. Richards has lost a step and was never fast even in his prime, Stepan has only average speed and hasn't seemed to improve his first step or quickness as some average skaters seem to do, Boyle is less than an average skater in terms of speed. This is hurting us bringing the puck up the ice, crossing the red line, and penetrating the other team's end. Our center ice men can't back other teams up with speed thus creating rooms for their wingers to put themselves into scoring positions. No help is coming here and it is a problem without a solution. Though both AA and Dubi were frustrating and maddeningly inconsistent they were both better than average skaters, maybe not speed burners, but better than average and could carry the puck. They're gone and though you could not say no to the Nash trade, not having these two guys hurts.
2. Lack of physical intensity. We are a finesse team in league where physical play ramps up the emotional level of a team. Our compete level is to low. We don't have a crash bang, energy 4th line. Again, we miss Dubi. We miss Prust though I would not have resigned him for what he was asking. Hell, we miss Avery.
I'm not a Torts fan and much prefer a Renney type of coach. But you can't deny that he has done a great job that last few years. If you have a coach you believe it, who has had success, who is organized and has a plan, you can't think of getting rid of him when things go bad. Teams fire coaches to quickly. Torts deserves a break, even from fans like me who don't particularly care for him
NYR Viper
Registered User
Rupp has looked slow but he is still one of the better player enforcers around. The age of that bottom-line is troubling though.
Halpern I think has looked good.
Stepan needs to play better but people calling for him to be traded (not you Dagoon) are off their rockers.
Boyle is the ideal #3/4 center. He needs offensive wingers to play with in order to balance out his strong defensive game. The Rangers don't have that at the moment so he looks lost.
- BB was the only forward on this team who actually did something last night. Created a few turnovers and didn't look bad.
- Come on, you're selling either DZ or Strålman short. We've got five Ds who are all good enough for the top four, and three who are decent as spares. We need a #6 D-man, other than that our D is fine.
BroadwayBlues
KK24
I don't like this argument because the Rangers themselves are suppose to be a top team.
Doesn't bode well when you're a contender having trouble against teams you will need to get by come playoffs.
Whiplash27
Quattro!!
Well to be fair, they split with the Flyers and Bruins and beat the Leafs. They just suck against the Penguins. 5 straight losses to them.
HockeyBasedNYC
Feeling it
Besides Stepan, your observations have very little importance regarding the outcome of the game. So, why is this a very un-Dagoon post exactly?
