Rumor: Things Not Left Unsaid 3 - Flyers Rumors and Media Mentions: Never Ending Circles

[Larry44]

So you’re saying Jiricek is the second coming of Risto?

Or Helge Grans? LOL!

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Grab Jiricek, then the Flyers should leave Drysdale on LTIR, buy him out after the season is done (very low cap hit for 2 years). Have Jiricek QB PP1.

 

[thedjpd]

Grab Jiricek, then the Flyers should leave Drysdale on LTIR, buy him out after the season is done (very low cap hit for 2 years). Have Jiricek QB PP1.

On the CLB they’re concerned but would be open to a Drysdale+ for Jiricek.

I’d give them back their 2nd and Drysdale. Just make it a Gauthier for Jiricek swap, indirectly.

I’d then use Farabee and/or Brink to go after Rossi.

Then propose Tippett for Norris. Would rather carry Norris on LTIR for 5 years than deal with Tippett for 8.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

On the CLB they’re concerned but would be open to a Drysdale+ for Jiricek.

I’d give them back their 2nd and Drysdale. Just make it a Gauthier for Jiricek swap, indirectly.

I’d then use Farabee and/or Brink to go after Rossi.

Then propose Tippett for Norris. Would rather carry Norris on LTIR for 5 years than deal with Tippett for 8.

I'd absolutely love Rossi, but I still think Minn may have a hard time trading him as their top 2 centers right now are Rossi and Eriksson Ek, with no one really in the pipeline to fill that void.

 

[Sombastate]

If we find a way to get Norris, Rossi and Jiricek, i'd take every bad thing i said about Briere,

Not because i'm positive this would achieve desirable results, but it would at least feel like a team that isn't happy with the quicksand at our hips.

 

[BillDineen]

Seravalli mentioned Flyers in on Jiricek. Also wondered about Ottawa and Flyers, but said Flyers not interested in Norris with contract and injury history

 

[FlyerNutter]

Please no to Norris.

I get the excitement to a point, but they don’t need another Humpty Dumpty.

 

[BillDineen]

Chris Johnston on TSN said Columbus may look at a pic package for Jiricek.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Please no to Norris.

I get the excitement to a point, but they don’t need another Humpty Dumpty.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Please no to Norris.

I get the excitement to a point, but they don’t need another Humpty Dumpty.

Dude is skilled, but yeah, he's one run into the boards away from being done.

Chris Johnston on TSN said Columbus may look at a pic package for Jiricek.

Flyers have lots of picks thankfully.

 

[Magua]

Have Jiricek QB PP1

That would be so Flyers.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Regardless if they should trade for Jiricek or not. I’m gonna guess given the way generally operate they won’t do it. I’m sure they’ll cite the log jam while not having the wherewithal that they put themselves in that position to begin with.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I feel like we need to have the depreciated asset discussion again.

The problem is not acquiring a Drysdale or a Ristolainen or potentially a Jiricek even if they fail. Failure is going to happen. It's the price the market sets for them. With precious few exceptions, you really only want the rehab projects that come cheaply. Not cheap for a premium asset. Dirt cheap.

This is why I feel it's likely I strongly prefer making the Tomasino trade to one for Jiricek for example.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Are the Flyers bad at drafting, developing or both?

Because they have been drafting at the top half of the draft for thr majority of the last 15 years and the results according to you have been bad.

So which is it?

It's a little of both, but also on the players themselves. But this isn't an issue unique to the Flyers. Drafting and development, outside of the obvious McDavids and Bedards, is probably the most difficult thing to do. There have been some painfully obvious mistakes made by the Flyers but there has also been a ton of bad luck or players that were generally considered by most to be good picks that just didn't turn out. If we're talking about picks after the first round yeah it doesn't look great, but how does it compare to the rest of the league? That's really all that matters, and an answer I don't have the time to go through and find out. If the Flyers have a far worse success rate then it is fair criticism. If they are in the middle of the pack or better then it isn't. There's so much luck involved in these picks and "safe" or "consensus" picks may not look safe with hindsight and "risky" or "reach" picks may look genius with hindsight.

But my post was really more about the board valuing prospects and the interplay between the organization and the pick. Sometimes it absolutely is the organization's fault alone. Sometimes it is a combination of the organization and the player. Sometimes it is just the player.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

That would be so Flyers.

It f***ing would be lol.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

Imagine Norris and Ellis on the LTIR for the next 4847375 years. I’d pass on that unless he’s dirt cheap

Jiricek I’d welcome depending on the cost. Not sure if CLB wants prospects and picks or NHL players.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

It's a little of both, but also on the players themselves. But this isn't an issue unique to the Flyers. Drafting and development, outside of the obvious McDavids and Bedards, is probably the most difficult thing to do. There have been some painfully obvious mistakes made by the Flyers but there has also been a ton of bad luck or players that were generally considered by most to be good picks that just didn't turn out. If we're talking about picks after the first round yeah it doesn't look great, but how does it compare to the rest of the league? That's really all that matters, and an answer I don't have the time to go through and find out. If the Flyers have a far worse success rate then it is fair criticism. If they are in the middle of the pack or better then it isn't. There's so much luck involved in these picks and "safe" or "consensus" picks may not look safe with hindsight and "risky" or "reach" picks may look genius with hindsight.

But my post was really more about the board valuing prospects and the interplay between the organization and the pick. Sometimes it absolutely is the organization's fault alone. Sometimes it is a combination of the organization and the player. Sometimes it is just the player.

The Flyers biggest success in recent years outside of the 1st round (not counting Hart because goalies are mostly drafted outside the 1st) has to be ghost and Oscar Lindblom which I think is a problem. They were good players but every team has those types. The Flyers desperately need to hit the lottery from the 2nd on, like bonafide top 6 or top 4. You’d think we’d have luck at some point but nope. Maybe Berglund is that coveted future 1C to lead us to the promise land lol

The Flyers generally are at least acceptable in the 1st outside of some Hextall players. It’s the back end of the draft that has hurt them. I do wonder about other teams though

 

[Magua]

With precious few exceptions, you really only want the rehab projects that come cheaply. Not cheap for a premium asset. Dirt cheap.

This is why I feel it's likely I strongly prefer making the Tomasino trade to one for Jiricek for example.

To pay a premium asset, you need to believe the player has star potential (or let’s say top of the lineup). And those players just don’t tend to shake loose at age 20-22. It’s possible Jiricek ends up so good at ES, that he’s a top pair player. But it won’t be through pure skill, which just adds more risk in acquiring.

Someone like Kent Johnson is a guy I’d have been calling about every week. Maybe they could’ve even had him. Short of that, you target the Tomasinos and Frosts. The league is full of ‘em. It’s how Vegas and Seattle were built!

 

[BigToe]

To pay a premium asset, you need to believe the player has star potential (or let’s say top of the lineup). And those players just don’t tend to shake loose at age 20-22. It’s possible Jiricek ends up so good at ES, that he’s a top pair player. But it won’t be through pure skill, which just adds more risk in acquiring.

Someone like Kent Johnson is a guy I’d have been calling about every week. Maybe they could’ve even had him. Short of that, you target the Tomasinos and Frosts. The league is full of ‘em. It’s how Vegas and Seattle were built!

zegras zegras zegras

 

[Magua]

zegras zegras zegras

Different animal with his contract, but sure. I don’t even believe he’d cost a premium asset. Unlike a Drysdale, Zegras has 4 years post-draft of top of the lineup trajectory across every level. It’s one bad year for a few reasons. Between his injuries last year and probably some mental struggles, doesn’t get more buy low than him. This isn’t that hard to predict good ROI.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

The Flyers biggest success in recent years outside of the 1st round (not counting Hart because goalies are mostly drafted outside the 1st) has to be ghost and Oscar Lindblom which I think is a problem. They were good players but every team has those types. The Flyers desperately need to hit the lottery from the 2nd on, like bonafide top 6 or top 4. You’d think we’d have luck at some point but nope. Maybe Berglund is that coveted future 1C to lead us to the promise land lol

The Flyers generally are at least acceptable in the 1st outside of some Hextall players. It’s the back end of the draft that has hurt them. I do wonder about other teams though

The way I look at really anything after the 2nd round is basically 100% luck. You can say all day long that a team that gets a superstar in the 5+ round are great management or development or drafting or whatever, but that is almost entirely luck. No one, anywhere, would look at a guy in the 5th and say he is a future superstar. If that were the case, unless there are injury or character concerns that makes them fall, they'd be long gone.

And as for replacement level guys that late in the draft, I'm sure the Flyers have gotten their fair share of bottom six players or bottom pair guys late in the draft over the years. People love to point to bad picks and say "OMG they could have had *instert player here* five picks later but they chose a goon/grinder/whatever player instead." But that isn't realistic anymore than if you are a few numbers off in the lottery saying "if only I would have went with 33 and 28, I'd be a millionaire!" When you get that late in the draft you're pretty much guessing and so are the other teams. Sometimes you guess right with a Lindblom or a Cates or a Nodl or whomever in the mid to later rounds that can play but isn't a star. Sometimes you swing and miss. Sometimes, albeit rarely, you get a superstar. The bottom line is that it is a guess at that point. All the lists and rankings and pontificating done by posters or pundits is meaningless. Every prospect ranking and scouting report is the same: "Physical player with a great shot, just needs to improve skating and he could be an impact player. Top line ceiling but a lock for the bottom six" or "Great hockey IQ but his skating needs work. If his skating gets better this could be the steal of the draft" or "one of the fastest guys in the draft and an NHL level shot as an 18 year old in JRs, but he doesn't play defense and doesn't see the ice well enough right now to make a difference in NHL." And so forth and so on.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

The way I look at really anything after the 2nd round is basically 100% luck. You can say all day long that a team that gets a superstar in the 5+ round are great management or development or drafting or whatever, but that is almost entirely luck. No one, anywhere, would look at a guy in the 5th and say he is a future superstar. If that were the case, unless there are injury or character concerns that makes them fall, they'd be long gone.

And as for replacement level guys that late in the draft, I'm sure the Flyers have gotten their fair share of bottom six players or bottom pair guys late in the draft over the years. People love to point to bad picks and say "OMG they could have had *instert player here* five picks later but they chose a goon/grinder/whatever player instead." But that isn't realistic anymore than if you are a few numbers off in the lottery saying "if only I would have went with 33 and 28, I'd be a millionaire!" When you get that late in the draft you're pretty much guessing and so are the other teams. Sometimes you guess right with a Lindblom or a Cates or a Nodl or whomever in the mid to later rounds that can play but isn't a star. Sometimes you swing and miss. Sometimes, albeit rarely, you get a superstar. The bottom line is that it is a guess at that point. All the lists and rankings and pontificating done by posters or pundits is meaningless. Every prospect ranking and scouting report is the same: "Physical player with a great shot, just needs to improve skating and he could be an impact player. Top line ceiling but a lock for the bottom six" or "Great hockey IQ but his skating needs work. If his skating gets better this could be the steal of the draft" or "one of the fastest guys in the draft and an NHL level shot as an 18 year old in JRs, but he doesn't play defense and doesn't see the ice well enough right now to make a difference in NHL." And so forth and so on.

My probably unpopular opinion is that even the 1st round is a lot of luck outside the first few picks but even then odds are decent that someone drafted later in the 1st will be better. A good drafting team will draft good players but that “home run pick” will often be luck. That’s partially why I hate hindsight drafting; it’s easy to look back at a draft 5-10 years ago and say we could have got x instead of y when nobody expected x to explode like he did

I get jealous of looking at teams like Pittsburgh, Chicago, and Dallas. Getting a Duncan Keith or Letang outside of the 1st is massive luck and a huge reason for their success. If people thought Keith would be a Norris winning, Conn Smythe winning HoF Dman he goes top 2 picks in a draft, not, late 2nd round. Dallas hasn’t won the cup but they’ve built a contender with 2nd round picks like Robertson, Hintz, Stankoven. I find it amusing that Robertson and Stankhoven fell for opposite reasons and are both succeeding. Flyers would never have that luck

ETA: forgot TBL somehow

 

[FlyerNutter]

Giroux 2006. Sean Couturier 2011.

That’s a mighty short list when elite talent finds its way into the league continuously.

Don’t mean to offend, but it’s not luck imo. It’s dogshit scouting, first - and foremost.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Giroux 2006. Sean Couturier 2011.

That’s a mighty short list when elite talent finds its way into the league continuously.

Don’t mean to offend, but it’s not luck imo. It’s dogshit scouting, first - and foremost.

And when they do find someone promising, the wringer they put them through instead of helping them along is insane.

While forever insisting on a version of the game rooted in an erroneous nostalgia, and the skills they think compliments that version.

 

[BiggE]

All these trade proposals and coaching predictions are cute, but the Flyers will do what they always do:
Frost will be dealt for a vet who plays the “right way”

Torts will be replaced by Shaw or Lappy, no one else will get the slightest consideration let alone an interview

One of Edmonton’s or the Av’s firsts will be dealt for a 30+ center who was once a star but it is now a fading 2C

Their pick, in the 9-12 range will get them a future middle six forward or 2nd pair D.

They are the most inbred franchise in the NHL, heck the guy at the very top literally worships Bob Clarke and the Bullies.

Prepared to be disappointed and frustrated, as usual.