Therrien on Subban

[Whitesnake]

Who's doing that exactly?
When's the last time you heard Therrien praise PK without any negativity around it?

At the very worst, you could probably think that Therrien doesn't like Subban personnality. But if he's intelligent, he understands that he's a great hockey player and that he needs him. Coaches will always concentrate in finding the thing that doesn't work in order to improve it then congratulating things that do work.

Somehow though.....you don't really need to be a hockey player to see that happening. I mean, I've been working in some places and my boss was exactly like that. And probably a lot of people in here as well has had the same type of boss. Sucks...not pleasant....but seems that it's life. It changes a little when you boss has total confidence in you. As far as Therrien is concerned, he's not there yet with Subban. Well not entirely. Still, Subban doesn't play 12 minutes either.

 

[Chfan]

Those that are bashing Therrien and even Bergevin in this thread are ridiculous.

Subban AND Eller, both that got kind of singled-out by Therrien (well in Subban's case, it's just a bit of 'controlled praise' instead of full blown one..), are both playing their best hockey in their lives.

What do you want more seriously...

 

[NewbieOfGames]

Those that are bashing Therrien and even Bergevin in this thread are ridiculous.

Subban AND Eller, both that got kind of singled-out by Therrien (well in Subban's case, it's just a bit of 'controlled praise' instead of full blown one..), are both playing their best hockey in their lives.

What do you want more seriously...

29 mins TOI X 4 consecutive games
+ PK time

 

[TRG]

Who's doing that exactly?
When's the last time you heard Therrien praise PK without any negativity around it?

It doesn't have to be Therrien. Just look at all the Subban threads on the main board. It's getting Karlssonesque. Oh well.

 

[SB164]

I don't believe Therrien's ever believed in giving his defenseman "Pronger minutes" (26+ mins a night).

As long as the Habs are winning, I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Like I said earlier.. I just really hope MT and MB don't believe their own BS and that it's part of a tough love approach.

Because if they do... holy crap this is actually scary that our GM and coach would be that clueless. That would just be too hard to believe.



I hadn't even noticed. The closest he come to thanking them is when he opens by saying the montreal canadiens organization but then he follows it up by thanking Molson and some other org people.

But to be fair, MT and MB were a detriment to PK last season. The lowballing him into a missed training camp and beginning of season, the lack of disadvantage ice time, the lack of ice time in general, starting by leaving him off the first PP unit, hell he was playing with freakin' Bouillon on the third pairing for the first 4-5 games. They did him no favor and whatever he achieved last year he was already on his way there before MT and MB got here.

he went from a 40 pts dman who is good (not awesome, not bad, good) defensively... to a Norris winner on a PPG pace...

went from being a Hamrlik to being a Raymond Bourque in a single season...


the kid can hate MT and MB as much as he wants but since they're part of the Org he has 48 pts in 49 games, +18, Won a Norris already and if he keeps playing the way he is now he'll probably win a 2nd Norris...

 

[Agnostic]

Subban probably loves Therrien . MT has made the defense and Subban more involved in the play outside just the PP. I am not sure Pk wins a Norris with Jacques Martin as coach. Pk will need to kick back part of his $60m pay package to Therrien and Markov.

Lol if this were actually a practice imagine how much salary would be coming Markovs way from former teammates.

 

[MXD]

29 mins TOI X 4 consecutive games
+ PK time

Well, he would probably have reached 26-27 last game if he hadn't spent time in the box...

Besides, I don't really bother about Subban playing 25- minutes at the beginning of the regular season. As long as he plays more in the tail-end of the season/playoffs.

 

[Bob b smith]

When you constantly hear that the coach thought a special player had a good game, it quickly becomes too much. That's what special players do, 9 times out of 10 they play good games...

For those that remember Jacques Demers constantly praising every little good thing Patrick Roy did, it becomes nauseating. That's despite the fact it's more accepted because he was a goalie, despite the fact you saw Demers alot less than Therrien...

 

[jpchabby]

Could care less if he praises Subban or anyone else, this is not kindergarten.

Indeed.

Anyway a coach's job isn't to tell every player how amazing they are and everything they're doing well. It's to tell them what they're doing wrong so that they can get better.

To anyone who believes the coach and GM are trying to lower his value by not aknowledging every little good thing he's doing, you gotta be kidding me. The habs have the mean to pay Subban, whatever his cost. The only thing that matters to them (I'm sure about it) is to put the best product on the ice. That's why they're treating Subban the way they're treating him.

And with the way he's been playing the past 2 years, I gotta say, it seems to be working.

 

[void]

You guys will hate Therrien after watching tonight's 24CH...

After the first period vs Calgary, Therrien asked Subban and Gorges to go to the video room. I honestly don't know why Gorges was called in because Therrien directed all of his anger/frustration towards Subban.

Therrien: You think you're playing well? Practice like you play. Is this summer ****ing hockey that I don't ****ing know?
Subban: No..
Therrien: Is this a charity game?! No.
Subban: I got a question coach. The first couple of times you told me that my passing game.. I just, I don't know..
Therrien (interrupts): Skate, move the ****ing puck. You're not ****ing there! I know you're not there. I told the guys before the game, "He's not there. Just the way he practiced yesterday.. he's not gonna be there. Same thing today."

Now we know why Subban made that "controversial" comment to TSN about having a bad practice the day before the game. He was just repeating what the coach told him during the intermission.

 

[MTLSandman*]

You guys will hate Therrien after watching tonight's 24CH...

After the first period vs Calgary, Therrien asked Subban and Gorges to go to the video room. I honestly don't know why Gorges was called in because Therrien directed all of his anger/frustration towards Subban.

Therrien: You think you're playing well? Practice like you play. Is this summer ****ing hockey that I don't ****ing know?
Subban: No..
Therrien: Is this a charity game?! No.
Subban: I got a question coach. The first couple of times you told me that my passing game.. I just, I don't know..
Therrien (interrupts): Skate, move the ****ing puck. You're not ****ing there! I know you're not there. I told the guys before the game, "He's not there. Just the way he practiced yesterday.. he's not gonna be there. Same thing today."

Now we know why Subban made that "controversial" comment to TSN about having a bad practice the day before the game. He was just repeating what the coach told him during the intermission.

AAAAAAnnnnd there you have it folks.... Being hard on P.K. = Him playing like a beast.

I know a lot of ppl in here are going to blast Therrien for that, but they probably have never played hockey before... Coaches lash-out at their players, it happens. Especially if you know that that player could be better and that going at him will bring out the best of him.

It's going to be so fun listening to a bunch of clueless whiners once this airs about how "he should have been nicer to him, he should have told Gorges the same thing... He should have blah blah blah"

Can't wait!

 

[Kriss E]

AAAAAAnnnnd there you have it folks.... Being hard on P.K. = Him playing like a beast.

I know a lot of ppl in here are going to blast Therrien for that, but they probably have never played hockey before... Coaches lash-out at their players, it happens. Especially if you know that that player could be better and that going at him will bring out the best of him.

It's going to be so fun listening to a bunch of clueless whiners once this airs about how "he should have been nicer to him, he should have told Gorges the same thing... He should have blah blah blah"

Can't wait!

Except that it was after the 1st period, and that PK turned it up 10 min into the 3rd. So did it really work? Or did PK just turn it up when he got into it by himself?

And nobody is suggesting Therrien should be worshiping PK. Just that he doesn't have to be on his case 24/7, as he seems to be.
And singling out players never works. That's what gets people fired. Can't have double standard within your own club. Martin had that towards veterans, that didn't turn out too good for him.
There's a big difference.

PK is an exceptional player, he is a superstar. Those type of players don't miss out on their potential. It's not like Crosby would not have reached his level of play if Therrien or Bylsma were not his coaches. Likewise for Malkin. Likewise for PK.
PK would have become PK no matter what. Some people called it right from his rookie year.

 

[Kriss E]

You guys will hate Therrien after watching tonight's 24CH...

After the first period vs Calgary, Therrien asked Subban and Gorges to go to the video room. I honestly don't know why Gorges was called in because Therrien directed all of his anger/frustration towards Subban.

Therrien: You think you're playing well? Practice like you play. Is this summer ****ing hockey that I don't ****ing know?
Subban: No..
Therrien: Is this a charity game?! No.
Subban: I got a question coach. The first couple of times you told me that my passing game.. I just, I don't know..
Therrien (interrupts): Skate, move the ****ing puck. You're not ****ing there! I know you're not there. I told the guys before the game, "He's not there. Just the way he practiced yesterday.. he's not gonna be there. Same thing today."

Now we know why Subban made that "controversial" comment to TSN about having a bad practice the day before the game. He was just repeating what the coach told him during the intermission.

Heard that yesterday on the radio. Not sure what play he was referring too but am curious to see.

 

[Lemons]

It's a contract year. Management is downplaying his ability to save money. Simple as that.

 

[Gustave]

Coaches are paid to get the most out of their team and players.

If coach T gets the most out of PK by being hard then so be it.

See Torto with Vinny back in the day. Got 50 goals and 100 points out him. Vinny hated Torto's guts but he became what was the top player in the league.

It has an expiration date but it's not like any here expect T to stay for a long while. We'll have to bring our Bylsma to complete the rebuild. Let's just settle down and enjoy how PK responds on the ice.

 

[Kriss E]

Coaches are paid to get the most out of their team and players.

If coach T gets the most out of PK by being hard then so be it.

See Torto with Vinny back in the day. Got 50 goals and 100 points out him. Vinny hated Torto's guts but he became what was the top player in the league.

It has an expiration date but it's not like any here expect T to stay for a long while. We'll have to bring our Bylsma to complete the rebuild. Let's just settle down and enjoy how PK responds on the ice.

So how do other coaches get the most out of their players without being hard-*****?
And it didn't work for too long with Torts. Did he get the best out of Richards in NYR? Nash?

This idea that Therrien being a hard ass on PK is turning him into a great player is BS.
PK was already great before, and he was well on his way to becoming one of the best in the league. Last year, without camp, he came into the season and was great right from the start. If Therrien is such a magic man, than a bunch of players would be playing better.

 

[jpchabby]

It's a contract year. Management is downplaying his ability to save money. Simple as that.

No. Just no.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

he went from a 40 pts dman who is good (not awesome, not bad, good) defensively... to a Norris winner on a PPG pace...

went from being a Hamrlik to being a Raymond Bourque in a single season...


the kid can hate MT and MB as much as he wants but since they're part of the Org he has 48 pts in 49 games, +18, Won a Norris already and if he keeps playing the way he is now he'll probably win a 2nd Norris...

Your mistake is to think that is somehow due to MB or MT when the first they ever saw of him was 6 games into last season. Sure they completely transformed him and he owes them everything...

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

AAAAAAnnnnd there you have it folks.... Being hard on P.K. = Him playing like a beast.

I know a lot of ppl in here are going to blast Therrien for that, but they probably have never played hockey before... Coaches lash-out at their players, it happens. Especially if you know that that player could be better and that going at him will bring out the best of him.

It's going to be so fun listening to a bunch of clueless whiners once this airs about how "he should have been nicer to him, he should have told Gorges the same thing... He should have blah blah blah"

Can't wait!

Well, maybe there's a method to the madness. Based on Subban's improved play MT must be doing something right. I know I've given him grief over not playing our younger players but it's worked with Subban.... AND Eller.

So maybe the coaches know something we don't. Going forward I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt on this stuff. It has to be by design.

That being said, there will be no excuse if he doesn't play these guys more in the playoffs.

 

[Phil Parent]

I wouldn't mention them because his production is so awesome, but PK is good for a boner or two a night. In the great scheme of things, because he puts so many points on the board it doesn't matter, but Therrien's mindset probably is: "He's awesome... but what if he didn't get his bad penalty every game, or get caught deep in the offensive zone once in a while? He would be PERFECT!"

And that's what coaches do, get a little more from you, all the time.

Apparently, we're going to see MT give the business to Subban and Gorges during the Calgary game tonight on 24CH. They've both been better since. Remember Daigneault calling out Diaz? He's been better since. When the players respond to these calls with better play, it means they are rowing with the coaches, they feel challenged and want to give more. When they don't, then you know the team ain't going nowhere.

That's how hockey works!

 

[Kriss E]

Well, maybe there's a method to the madness. Based on Subban's improved play MT must be doing something right. I know I've given him grief over not playing our younger players but it's worked with Subban.... AND Eller.

So maybe the coaches know something we don't. Going forward I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt on this stuff. It has to be by design.

That being said, there will be no excuse if he doesn't play these guys more in the playoffs.

I would have agreed if Eller and PK weren't already showing great things under Martin.
No doubt MT is showing them things, but to say that his method is working, that it's somehow responsible for their great plays is a big stretch.

 

[CaptainBenn]

Those that are bashing Therrien and even Bergevin in this thread are ridiculous.

Subban AND Eller, both that got kind of singled-out by Therrien (well in Subban's case, it's just a bit of 'controlled praise' instead of full blown one..), are both playing their best hockey in their lives.

What do you want more seriously...

They are not playing that good because of Therrien or Bergevin
They are not the reason Pk won a Norris
What stupid coach would say that his player COULD become a good defenseman for the team IF blabla [enter Pk personality traits] the same year that defenseman wins the Norris
Therrien and Bergevin both suck and Bergevin is not the reason we have Galchenyuk
They both did nothing special to improve the team yet except waiting for the draft to draft players (wow thats a strategy I never heard of before)

 

[BubbleGumPlant]

People need to stop overreacting. PK is playing great so obviously the coaching is not hindering him in any way. It can also be argued that the coaching is very effective. PK is playing 24 mins a night and is dominating. The Habs are 5-2 and have just come back from a long road trip not long ago. Yes let's all decide that Therrien is a bad coach because PK isn't playing 30 mins a night; he's certainly capable of it. Heck, did you see PK's training this summer? He should be playing 35 mins a night. He's the best defenseman in the league. He should be playing more minutes than Suter, Chara, etc.

Last year HF was crying about Galchenyuk's ice time yet he finished in the top 5 rookies at 19 years old.

If it was up to Jacques Martin, PK would be benched for each time he got burned for pinching in or taking a useless penalty and Galchenyuk would have played on the 4th line as a rookie. So stop crying about a few minutes of icetime per game. It's a stat that has no meaning in terms of assessing one's success.

 

[Gustave]

So how do other coaches get the most out of their players without being hard-*****?
And it didn't work for too long with Torts. Did he get the best out of Richards in NYR? Nash?

This idea that Therrien being a hard ass on PK is turning him into a great player is BS.
PK was already great before, and he was well on his way to becoming one of the best in the league. Last year, without camp, he came into the season and was great right from the start. If Therrien is such a magic man, than a bunch of players would be playing better.

Different buttons for different players at different stages in their careers. Established players are different than developing players. Brad Richards from 7 years ago isn't the same Brad Richards today.

All I'm saying is that Therrien feels he gets the most out of PK with his actual method. I could be wrong but to me, Therrien is doing this for no other purpose than maximzing Subban's contribution to the success of the team. It's not because he flat out doesn't like him.

It just a method. Like I said, it won't last long as Therrien has and always will have an expiration date. His method gets old real quick with vets. I'm not calling him a magic man at all...