There is nothing wrong with Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares.

[kabidjan18]

Florida has 2.

Ah yes, you're right. They overpaid the goalie.

 

[Moridin]

Ah yes, you're right. They overpaid the goalie.

In hindsight I am not sure Bob can be called overpaid.

 

[pb1300]

Everyone here is assuming. Woll did not have a good game 3 - he let in a couple softies - I can definitely speculate that if Stolarz was in net then the Leafs would probably win.

Okay cool, so if Bob did not have an off Game 1, then I can speculate that the series would have been over in 4 for the Panthers, as their even strength numbers decimated those of the Leafs.

 

[D1az]

I'd say it's a bit of a challenge if the highest paid guys on the team are paid higher than most guys in the league, and the team then has to use far less to get good depth guys.

It's a bit too much to expect depth guys making far less, and hence mostly being less skilled than the depth guys on other teams.
The stars should make up for this difference, not be equal to the the less paid stars on other teams.

 

[pb1300]

I'd say it's a bit of a challenge if the highest paid guys on the team are paid higher than most guys in the league, and the team then has to use far less to get good depth guys.

It's a bit too much to expect depth guys making far less, and hence mostly being less skilled than the depth guys on other teams.
The stars should make up for this difference, not be equal to the the less paid stars on other teams.

They can be some of the highest paid guys in the league, if they performed in the playoffs. But those 4 are losers, and refuse to make the plays required to win multiple games and series in a playoff year.

I do think though you cant have 3+ making top end type money, at least not all of them being forwards. If one or two are a forward, and another a Dman, then maybe.

 

[HofT]

Okay cool, so if Bob did not have an off Game 1, then I can speculate that the series would have been over in 4 for the Panthers, as their even strength numbers decimated those of the Leafs.

That's something we know isn't a possibility because Bob played. We have certainty about that. We saw him play the entire series. Whereas we are forced to speculate about Stolarz - there is no option besides speculating.

 

[D1az]

They can be some of the highest paid guys in the league, if they performed in the playoffs. But those 4 are losers, and refuse to make the plays required to win multiple games and series in a playoff year.

I do think though you cant have 3+ making top end type money, at least not all of them being forwards. If one or two are a forward, and another a Dman, then maybe.

Yep, having all the highest skill focused on the forwards is too top heavy.

Need to have a large share spent on as good defense as possible.

As I noted earlier I think having an average goalie after that is okay, as the mental game there might break at times and it's only one guy, so better have good defensemen to help with that part and share the responsibility.

 

[HofT]

They can be some of the highest paid guys in the league, if they performed in the playoffs. But those 4 are losers, and refuse to make the plays required to win multiple games and series in a playoff year.

I do think though you cant have 3+ making top end type money, at least not all of them being forwards. If one or two are a forward, and another a Dman, then maybe.

It went to game 7 and Florida's top lines were not much better than the Leafs - it was equal. The real difference is Florida can take advantage of leveraging the salary cap due to its cheaper taxes and have much better 3rd and 4th lines which dominated Toronto's. Leafs defence was fine besides Rielly's lack of defensive consistency

 

[pb1300]

It went to game 7 and Florida's top lines were not much better than the Leafs - it was equal. The real difference is Florida can take advantage of leveraging the salary cap due to its cheaper taxes and have much better 3rd and 4th lines which dominated Toronto's. Leafs defence was fine besides Rielly's lack of defensive consistency

Yes taxes, as it hasnt been shown already that there are workaround the taxes, to even them out. Has nothing to do with player managment, players taking max they can get, and not sacrifices millions for the sake of staying together and winning. Noooo, strictly taxes Many Panthers players took far less than market value to stay together, more than what the tax difference would represent.

That's something we know isn't a possibility because Bob played. We have certainty about that. We saw him play the entire series. Whereas we are forced to speculate about Stolarz - there is no option besides speculating.

So its 1-0 series without Stolarz. I can speculate that the Panthers would win in 5 because Woll play the rest of the series. Am I playing the game right, since Stolarz played 30 minutes of Game 1?

 

[HofT]

Yes taxes, as it hasnt been shown already that there are workaround the taxes, to even them out. Has nothing to do with player managment, players taking max they can get, and not sacrifices millions for the sake of staying together and winning. Noooo, strictly taxes Many Panthers players took far less than market value to stay together, more than what the tax difference would represent.



So its 1-0 series without Stolarz. I can speculate that the Panthers would win in 5 because Woll play the rest of the series. Am I playing the game right, since Stolarz played 30 minutes of Game 1?

Of course it does, 13 million in Toronto would be equivalent to roughly 10 million in Florida.


And Florida won game 5, no reason to speculate. You're not playing the game right.

 

[stealth1]

Of course it does, 13 million in Toronto would be equivalent to roughly 10 million in Florida.


And Florida won game 5, no reason to speculate. You're not playing the game right.

It has nothing to do with the fact the Leafs core 4 can't get it done come playoff time.

 

[pb1300]

Of course it does, 13 million in Toronto would be equivalent to roughly 10 million in Florida.


And Florida won game 5, no reason to speculate. You're not playing the game right.

The tax on 13million is a bit over 2million, but still doesnt take into account the jock tax, and how the players agent and accountant handles their salary, which can be even less.

Regardless, those players decided to take more for themselves, rather than a bit less for the better of the team, which is what multiple Panthers players have.

And nothing else matters in your speculations after the 30 minute mark of Game 1 when Stolarz went out, because everything changes beyond that point if he never gets hurt, positive or negative for either team.

 

[HofT]

The tax on 13million is a bit over 2million, but still doesnt take into account the jock tax, and how the players agent and accountant handles their salary, which can be even less.

Regardless, those players decided to take more for themselves, rather than a bit less for the better of the team, which is what multiple Panthers players have.

And nothing else matters in your speculations after the 30 minute mark of Game 1 when Stolarz went out, because everything changes beyond that point if he never gets hurt, positive or negative for either team.

If Marner gets 13.5M we know:

In Toronto, his net income is $6.27M after 53.53% tax.

In Florida, the tax rate is 37%.

We want to find the Florida salary (let’s call it X) that results in the same $6.27M net after 37% tax.

The correct way to do that is to reverse-calculate the gross income required:

Florida net​

𝑋 × ( 1 − 0.37 )​

0.63 𝑋 Florida net=X×(1−0.37)=0.63X 0.63 𝑋​

6.27 𝑀 ⇒ 𝑋​

6.27 𝑀 0.63​

9.95 𝑀 0.63X=6.27M⇒X= 0.63 6.27M =9.95M

So:
$9.95M in Florida taxed at 37% = $6.27M take-home
$13.5M in Toronto taxed at 53.53% = $6.27M take-home

Yes, there's other factors to account for but this is the general baseline comparison. And it's a leverage for Southern teams in a stagnate cap era that we've recently been in the last while.

 

[pb1300]

Toronto (Ontario, Canada)​

In Ontario, high-income earners face a combined federal and provincial tax rate of approximately 53%. For a $13 million salary, this results in:

• Total Taxes: $13,000,000 × 53% = $6,890,000
• Take-Home Pay: $13,000,000 - $6,890,000 = $6,110,000

Florida (USA)​

Florida has no state income tax. Assuming a combined federal and other applicable tax rate of approximately 37%:

• Total Taxes: $13,000,000 × 37% = $4,810,000
• Take-Home Pay: $13,000,000 - $4,810,000 = $8,190,000

• $8,190,000 (Florida) - $6,110,000 (Toronto) = $2,080,000

If Marner gets 13.5M we know:

In Toronto, his net income is $6.27M after 53.53% tax.

In Florida, the tax rate is 37%.

We want to find the Florida salary (let’s call it X) that results in the same $6.27M net after 37% tax.

The correct way to do that is to reverse-calculate the gross income required:

Florida net​

𝑋 × ( 1 − 0.37 )​

0.63 𝑋 Florida net=X×(1−0.37)=0.63X 0.63 𝑋​

6.27 𝑀 ⇒ 𝑋​

6.27 𝑀 0.63​

9.95 𝑀 0.63X=6.27M⇒X= 0.63 6.27M =9.95M

So:
$9.95M in Florida taxed at 37% = $6.27M take-home
$13.5M in Toronto taxed at 53.53% = $6.27M take-home

Yes, there's other factors to account for but this is the general baseline comparison. And it's a leverage for Southern teams in a stagnate cap era that we've recently been in the last while.

 

[HofT]

Toronto (Ontario, Canada)​

In Ontario, high-income earners face a combined federal and provincial tax rate of approximately 53%. For a $13 million salary, this results in:

• Total Taxes: $13,000,000 × 53% = $6,890,000
• Take-Home Pay: $13,000,000 - $6,890,000 = $6,110,000

Florida (USA)​

Florida has no state income tax. Assuming a combined federal and other applicable tax rate of approximately 37%:

• Total Taxes: $13,000,000 × 37% = $4,810,000
• Take-Home Pay: $13,000,000 - $4,810,000 = $8,190,000
• $8,190,000 (Florida) - $6,110,000 (Toronto) = $2,080,000

View attachment 1040524

Yea, that's how much they net. Marner will net 2 million more in Florida. I did the entire gross. You're agreeing with me here.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Of course it does, 13 million in Toronto would be equivalent to roughly 10 million in Florida.

No you’ve done the math wrong, that would be close if he played 82 games in Florida, but he doesn’t.
He pays taxes in every state and province a game is played in.

 

[Hotsam Batcho]

It went to game 7 and Florida's top lines were not much better than the Leafs - it was equal. The real difference is Florida can take advantage of leveraging the salary cap due to its cheaper taxes and have much better 3rd and 4th lines which dominated Toronto's. Leafs defence was fine besides Rielly's lack of defensive consistency

This take is as innacurate as your taxes post.

 

[winnipegger]

Edmonton is paying a premium for two players and look at them. 3 WCF final in a row. It's not about paying forwards too much, that is fine. They just have to be the right forwards.

 

[BlueMed]

#1 is the correct answer, but I don't agree with #2. The Pens won 3 Cups with defense/goaltending very similar to what Toronto had. You can't tell me that Rielly, McCabe, Tanev and Carlo is so much worse than Gonchar, Orpik, Gill and Scuderi, or even worse, the Pens' 2017 defense with Letang out for the year consisting of Hainsey, Dumoulin, Daley and Schultz. And in nets in 2016 you had rookie Matt Murray who was, at the time, as unproven as Joseph Woll.

The difference was the Pens' top guys actually showed up when it mattered. Even if their point totals didn't look very much better overall (though it was a lower scoring era than now), they showed up in important moments. Case in point, Crosby's pedestrian 2016 totals, but looking deeper you see that 3 of his goals were game winners in the Tampa series.

The fact is the Leafs got enough depth scoring (I already listed the point totals for the non-core four guys in the Florida series), the defense was okay, and Woll wasn't the issue. The issue is their core four disappeared when the series was on the line.

You're distorting reality here. The Pens may not have had Letang for the 2017 run but he didn't go missing for all 3 cups, so it's disingenuous to omit him when comparing Pittsburgh's D core to Toronto's. Are we really going to act like the majority of teams don't win the cup without a bonafide #1, 2, or 3 on their backend? You dont necessarily need a stud goaltender to win it all (i.e. Colorado and Vegas), but the D core in front better be damn good, and Toronto has neither at this point.