The worst of the Montreal Canadiens

[hacksaw7]

Whats the story with him, why is he regarded so poorly?

I don't know if that's really the case that he's regarded poorly. He was not a high draft pick and was a lot older than most. Actually toiled in the ECHL for years in the mid 90s before Montreal took him (coming off a good year in the IHL) and ended up playing pretty well in the minors, but just wasn't cut out for the NHL game. I don't think hopes were high, they just probably thought well maybe he can be a nice surprise.

 

[hacksaw7]

Honestly I think that 95-96 the Canadiens should've absolutely finished up the season and gone into the playoffs at the Forum. Yes I understand new building, grab that additional revenue as soon as you can...but they had that last Stars game well into March. 1995 was a disappointing year where they missed the playoffs. They lost in round 1 to Boston in 1994, so really the last great Forum playoff memories are 1993 at that time. That building needed one last spring to work its magic. Plus the logistics of moving in and getting acclimated with a new building (even an upgrade) isn't easy. You have routines and habits of players and coaches that get disrupted

 

[hacksaw7]

I would say their worst coach is Mario Tremblay. Came in and replaced the popular Jacques Demers, who they won a Cup with, and two months later drove arguably the greatest goaltender of all-time out of town and therefore ruining the mystique of the Canadiens, which led them on a downward spiral that has never really returned up. I don't know why they didn't just give Demers more of a shot early in the 1995-'96 season. It was 5 games in!

Worst GM has got to be Rejean Houle, am I right? Grundman possibly from 1978-'83 as well. If anything just based on the talent that left Montreal after 1979.

Andre "Red Light" Racicot is up there if not as worst player but worst goalie. Miraculously he has a Stanley Cup ring.

I am not sure why Damphousse didn't get the captaincy in 1995 after Keane left. I am pretty sure Patrick Roy wouldn't have described Damphousse as someone with "balls the size of snowpeas" (I believe that is close to the exact quote) when talking about the captain, which was Pierre Turgeon. But was he the worst captain in history? He was only there for basically a year and it was a horrible trade to bring Corson back in 1996-'97. I never thought Turgeon was a great leader, but worst captain? Whoever it is, my guess is that the guy is post-1995 either way.

Absolutely I would've kept Demers a bit longer, however at that stage you had the Game 6 loss on Forum ice to the Bruins in 1994 which led to the season ending Game 7 at Boston Garden, you had the frustrating 1995 regular season where they could never find their footing (would be shocked if they won more than 3 games in a row at any point in 1995, ultimately missing the playoffs by 4 points in a season they were expected to make it. Last 5 games of that season where they still had a shot they went winless. Now you're into 95/96 and they're off to a bad start already and can't buy a goal. I think they should've given Demers at least 20-25 games if not more....1993 was not that far back, but the end of 1994 and all of 1995 left a lot of people with a bitter taste in their mouths

The way the Rangers came in and just effortlessly smoked the Habs in 1996 (down 0-2) I feel wouldn't have happened at the Forum. Maybe I'm wrong, they were an experienced veteran bunch with a recent Cup. But it shouldn't have been as easy as it was.

 

[decma]

The way the Rangers came in and just effortlessly smoked the Habs in 1996 (down 0-2) I feel wouldn't have happened at the Forum. Maybe I'm wrong, they were an experienced veteran bunch with a recent Cup. But it shouldn't have been as easy as it was.

Blowing the series after winning 2 in NY was painful (at least to Habs fans), but I wouldn't characterize it as the NYR effortlessly smoking the Habs.

The last four games were all close (three one-goal games and then 5-3 in game 6), and the Habs outscored NYR at ES.

Edit to add PP/ES breakdown:

In the last 4 games the Habs outscored the Rangers 7-6 at ES, but NYR scored 7 PP and 1 SH goal, to Mtl's 2 and 0.

Mtl's PP was 2/25, and gave up a SHG, while NYR's PP was 7/21.

 

[MXD]

Has any NHL team been worse at drafting, developing, signing, or trading for superstars in the last 25 years?

They've had some decent players but no gamebreakers. No elite forwards or defensemen (maybe Subban for a little). Just Carey Price. Total failure on the organization. You can't win without great players.

Andrei Markov belongs in that group. Way underrated.

(But that's not enough)

 

[reckoning]

Once the decision to fire Serge Saved was made, Jacques Demers fate was sealed. Any new GM is going to want to pick their own head coach, rather than inherit one.

 

[barbu]

I actually started watching the habs during the 1984 playoffs, in the series againts Québec. I think the 3rd or 4th game I watched was the good friday massacre. Nice introduction to hockey for a 10 years old! It was an awful season for the habs, and it could have been worse had they not won all 8 games against Hartford. They lose 2 of them, and I think they were out of the playoffs. That said, it was sandwiched between 98 and 94 points seasons so I think it was just a down year and a passing of the guard.

This year's team has been hit so bad by injuries and covid, I think they fielded mostly an AHL squad for quite a stretch. They are bad, but not bottom place bad. I had them in contention for a lottery pick, but to be a lock for one midway through the season is more than I expected.

In terms of eras, the Houle era was the worst as it was so hopeless. The guy lost badly on every trade he did, and the team barely drafted any nhler for a long stretch. There seemed to be no end in sight with the team getting worse and worse every season. It was in the middle of the dpe and I barely watched any hockey between 1997 and 2004.

The current situation is not that far off though. The team is spending to the cap and is strapped with immovable contracts and the prospect pool seems quite thin. Since 2008 (inclusively), the habs have drafted 2 top 6/4 players, Gallagher and Sergachev. It's appalling and to be that bad, the whole organization has to be rotten to the core. It will take more than just changing the guys at the top to get sustainable improvement going.

 

[Staniowski]

The '84 season was very interesting for the Habs....

It was kind of the start of the next generation of a great (defensive) team, with Lemaire taking over as coach, Carbonneau emerging as a force (Lemaire challenged Carbonneau to become a good defensive C), Chelios joining the team late in the season and playing well immediately, along with other young stalwarts of that era - Naslund, McPhee, Ludwig, etc.

To be joined soon by Roy, Skrudland, Lemieux, and others.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Someone said they had decent prospects.

Ok. All teams do.

They are still worse than TB, Panthers, Boston, and Leafs. Detroit & Ottawa appear to have better futures.

They've got no young studs. Suzuki is a #2 C at best.

Their best player will be 35 soon.

They are years away from contention. I'm talking 5-7 years at best.

What's scary is they no longer have a waitlist for season tickets. Ratings are down. Drawing crowds of 15 k this year.

 

[Nerowoy nora tolad]

The current situation is not that far off though. The team is spending to the cap and is strapped with immovable contracts and the prospect pool seems quite thin. Since 2008 (inclusively), the habs have drafted 2 top 6/4 players, Gallagher and Sergachev. It's appalling and to be that bad, the whole organization has to be rotten to the core. It will take more than just changing the guys at the top to get sustainable improvement going.

Is the old tight-to-the-cap issue really that permanent anymore? I remember the same things being said about the Leafs circa 2014-15, and a motivated GM in Lou was able to right the ship within a year or three.

I feel like the whole cap problems meme was more a product of the 2006-2012 era before GMs got serious about getting a players contract value right relative to their worth. Deals like DiPietro, Finger, or Richards that nobody would touch with a ten foot pole just dont happen anymore. Or at least, what contract on the current Canadiens is that bad?

The '84 season was very interesting for the Habs....

It was kind of the start of the next generation of a great (defensive) team, with Lemaire taking over as coach, Carbonneau emerging as a force (Lemaire challenged Carbonneau to become a good defensive C), Chelios joining the team late in the season and playing well immediately, along with other young stalwarts of that era - Naslund, McPhee, Ludwig, etc.

To be joined soon by Roy, Skrudland, Lemieux, and others.

All water under the bridge now, but it always amazes me that that 1980-1983 version of the squad had such piddling results.

 

[barbu]

Is the old tight-to-the-cap issue really that permanent anymore? I remember the same things being said about the Leafs circa 2014-15, and a motivated GM in Lou was able to right the ship within a year or three.

You're right, it's not a serious problem in itself, I just meant to underline the limited assets available to jumpstart a rebuild.

 

[decma]

All water under the bridge now, but it always amazes me that that 1980-1983 version of the squad had such piddling results.

That was perhaps the best 4-year regular season run to be accompanied by only one playoff round win.
81 to 83 was probably the best 3-year regular season run to be accompanied by no playoff round wins.

 

[Voight]

They've drafted like crap the last decade. Thats for sure.

 

[Staniowski]

Is the old tight-to-the-cap issue really that permanent anymore? I remember the same things being said about the Leafs circa 2014-15, and a motivated GM in Lou was able to right the ship within a year or three.

I feel like the whole cap problems meme was more a product of the 2006-2012 era before GMs got serious about getting a players contract value right relative to their worth. Deals like DiPietro, Finger, or Richards that nobody would touch with a ten foot pole just dont happen anymore. Or at least, what contract on the current Canadiens is that bad?



All water under the bridge now, but it always amazes me that that 1980-1983 version of the squad had such piddling results.

Yes, the Keith Acton/Mark Napier era of the Habs!

They still had lots of good players, but they'd also lost a lot after the '79 Cup....especially Lemaire, Dryden, Bowman. And, in the '80 playoffs, they also lost Lafleur, Lapointe, Savard....so that's a lot of loss.

Lapointe and Savard were close to done in those years, due to injury and age.

 

[The Panther]

Another loss today. The Habs' regulation-time percentage is now .262. Yikes!!

They're surrendering 3.79 goals against per game. They were consistently better than that defensively even in the high-flying 1980s, including 1984 when they had a losing record...

 

[The Panther]

With two more losses since my last post (and 13 more goals against!), The Habs' regulation-time percentage is now .250.

They're now surrendering an average of 4.00 goals against per game.

Both these numbers are currently worse than the 1939-40 Canadiens, which to date has been the worst Montreal club ever.

 

[Quatre Vingt Treize]

So much pressure in Montreal I think it has hurt the team more than helped in recent years. Drove many good hockey people out of here.

Jacques Lemaire coaching just one. Claude Lemieux wanted out, Patrick Roy, Guy Lafleur. Can you imagine this team had those four for a few more years?

 

[The Panther]

Now 8-31-7.

Good grief. Right now, they're comparable to the 1989-90 Nordiques.

 

[bobholly39]

Now 8-31-7.

Good grief. Right now, they're comparable to the 1989-90 Nordiques.

It's a weird season, particularly because they shouldn't be this bad.

It reminds me a bit of Colorado in 2016-2017. 48 points in 82 games, the lowest total this millennium for an 82 game season...which is crazy because Colorado never should have been that bad. They were a .500 team the year prior, 90 points year before, and back to playoffs year after....but somehow that season, 48 points. Detroit and Buffalo also had really bad seasons in recent years, but you kind of expected/saw it coming for those guys - not so for Colorado that year, and not so for Habs this year.

Habs right now are on pace for 41 points, even worst than Colorado. And unlike Arizona or even Seattle with weak rosters, Habs shouldn't be this bad....and very good chance they're nowhere near this bad next year.

It's like everyone gave up from day 1, with Price/Weber gone and the coaching didn't help.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Now 8-31-7.

Good grief. Right now, they're comparable to the 1989-90 Nordiques.

So Montreal has a points% of .250. But we know that doesn't reflect how many games they won and lost, because the NHL gives out points for games a team loses.

For an apples to apples comparison, the Nordiques won 12 games, lost 61, and tied 7.
That's a points% of .194
Their record in games that didn't end in a tie was .164
Wins per games played, it's .150

Montreal has only played one shootout so far, and they won it, so their record using a system where games end after overtime and you get two points for a win and one for a tie would be 7-37-1, or 15 points in 46 games.
That's a points% of .163
Their record in games that didn't end in a shooto-cough-tie is .156
Wins per games played is .152

So yes, their overtime losses are what's keeping them ahead of the '90 Nordiques.

 

[The Panther]

Teams have certainly made Cups runs and then missed the playoffs the following season. We've seen that at least a handful of times, I think. But has any team been this bad (assuming they don't considerably improve now, which is possible) one season after going to the Finals?

 

[abo9]

Yeah, but he only has a .909 save pct over the last four seasons...so he can't possibly be the only thing keeping the Habs from being sent to the AHL.

I always go back to it...but people that aren't really deep into it, don't recognize just how good Price is.

I think the most irrefutable argument that Price is so important is to look at the Habs record with and without him playing. Eliminates the bias of looking at individual goalie stats who are very team-driven anyway.

there's still gonna be some naysayers nitpicking things in the crowd, but for the past 10 years, if Price goes down so foes the team

 

[abo9]

Has any NHL team been worse at drafting, developing, signing, or trading for superstars in the last 25 years?

They've had some decent players but no gamebreakers. No elite forwards or defensemen (maybe Subban for a little). Just Carey Price. Total failure on the organization. You can't win without great players.

by all metrics, Montreal has been one of the worst organizations to develop NHL players under MB's tenure.

Past 25 years? Depends if you count drafted players that mever plated, but they had Patch, Subban, McD, Price - and if you count success by NHL games then you they might not be the absolute worst thanks to guys like Ron Hainsey, Ryan White, etc. that played decent careers despite being bottom pairing D's or fringe NHLers

 

[GMR]

Now 8-31-7.

Good grief. Right now, they're comparable to the 1989-90 Nordiques.

They can't be worse than the 2019-2020 Red Wings.

That team had a point percentage of .275 (not win percentage mind you) and finished 23 points below the next worst team. Arguably the worst team since the expansion Senators and Sharks.

 

[The Panther]

They can't be worse than the 2019-2020 Red Wings.

That team had a point percentage of .275 (not win percentage mind you) and finished 23 points below the next worst team. Arguably the worst team since the expansion Senators and Sharks.

Well, that club was 12-31-3 at this point. Montreal is worse, so far.