Online Series: The Wheel of Time (Prime Video, Nov 22)

This week's episode mopped the floor with the season finale battle of Rings Of Power. I wasnt' a big fan of of the Perrin character before but man.. Lord Perrin Goldeneyes! :bow: Also, "For mother!" :yo: Probably the first time I've fistpumped during this show.
 
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A surprising early exit for a secondary character.

I can imagine from a production point of view, having the Ogier around is more trouble than he's worth.

Overall, great episode. A lot of satisfying karma involving Mat's sisters.
 
A surprising early exit for a secondary character.

I can imagine from a production point of view, having the Ogier around is more trouble than he's worth.

Overall, great episode. A lot of satisfying karma involving Mat's sisters.

Book readers are up in arms about Loial and i kind of get it. He was one of my favourite characters in the books. However looking at realistically, he has very little to do from now until end. After Two Rivers he basically spends what 7 books sealing up waygates (which doesnt even work, see Camlyn), then does convince the Ogier to fight at the last battle...where they are just more numbers without any real thing to do. Like there's no reason you can't just have the Ogier just show up for last battle and basically ignore waygates going forward (traveling is coming soon). So yeah its kinda a natural spot for him to exit stage left when you consider this way he gets a hero's exit and he's got nothing much more to do really.

Ogier/Loisl are one of the many storylines that I think just kinda fizzle out that I think will mostly be dropped for TV, just no time.

Battle of Two Rivers was one of my favourite sequences in books, perhaps my favourite battle (Dumas Wells maybe close 2nd). I think overall it was done pretty well. Really captured the idea of Perrin bring them together, I loved the song part right before the battle in particular.

I've got some minor quibbles with it, including taking away Faile's big hero moment though. Tbh that was my biggest disappointment with the episode, as someone who really liked Faile in the books, even with her cultural relationship practices. The other one isn't shows fault but missing Tam stuck out. Unfortunately the actor was unavailable.

Hope they reference back to the heroism of the Tinkers' though. It got glossed over a bit in the show for time, but it takes incredible courage to have to wait until last moment and try to protect the children when you can't fight back.

One note though show, can we not have Alanna get impaled in every single episode. At certain point she's gonna be more holes than person. But seriously I kinda love the changes with regards to her and focus on her and her warders, it really informs certain upcoming actions. I'm just wondering if they've gone too far down her arc for certain things coming. We'll see how they handle it though, but that's next season at earliest.
 
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One note though show, can we not have Alanna get impaled in every single episode. At certain point she's gonna be more holes than person. But seriously I kinda love the changes with regards to her and focus on her and her warders, it really informs certain upcoming actions. I'm just wondering if they've gone too far down her arc for certain things coming. We'll see how they handle it though, but that's next season at earliest.

It's pretty funny because her book plot armor is keeping her alive and yet enough spears and arrows have gone into her at this point that you're always a little curious if she's going to cheat death yet again.

She's definitely getting the opportunity to practice her "I'm in agony" acting skills.

As the show moves along, I suspect there will be more and more deviations from the book, not the least of which is the fact that the books kept getting bigger (peaking with Lord of Chaos I think?).

So far, they've done a good job of dumping extraneous characters and tightening up the plot to make it more efficient.

I actually don't mind a fair amount of change as it keeps someone familiar with the books on their toes a little bit and helps with the dramatic tension.

Provided that they don't massively change the personalities of the major characters or change their eventual fates.

Holden Caufield said:
I've got some minor quibbles with it, including taking away Faile's big hero moment though. Tbh that was my biggest disappointment with the episode, as someone who really liked Faile in the books, even with her cultural relationship practices. The other one isn't shows fault but missing Tam stuck out. Unfortunately the actor was unavailable.

I like how they cast Faile to be so different from the other characters and love interests on the show. She's small, but aggressive and confident. I think I always imagined her a little more regal.

I was also obsessed with her hooked nose because I think Robert Jordan brought it up every single page she was on. How big was this nose? How hooked? Would she still be attractive with that schnoz?

There were times where she was competing with Nynaeve as most annoying character. I think I like the screen version more, to date.

They do a good job of showing how deadly she can be (how about those Aiel though, it's nice to see their lethality on screen).

In any event, that Eamon Valda scene may even be better than the books, so kudos to them. And I think Lanfear may be better on screen than in the books as well.

Not sure about the Moiraine and Siuan relationship.

"Pillow friends" as written was more of a temporary, immature, going through puberty type relationship in a setting that excluded virtually all males (aside from Warders, who were either training separately or largely spoken for). They've really amped it up into the tragic love story of their lives.

Not sure what impact that might have on Moiraine's future romantic entanglements, if any.
 
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Book readers are up in arms about Loial and i kind of get it. He was one of my favourite characters in the books. However looking at realistically, he has very little to do from now until end. After Two Rivers he basically spends what 7 books sealing up waygates (which doesnt even work, see Camlyn), then does convince the Ogier to fight at the last battle...where they are just more numbers without any real thing to do. Like there's no reason you can't just have the Ogier just show up for last battle and basically ignore waygates going forward (traveling is coming soon). So yeah its kinda a natural spot for him to exit stage left when you consider this way he gets a hero's exit and he's got nothing much more to do really.

Ogier/Loisl are one of the many storylines that I think just kinda fizzle out that I think will mostly be dropped for TV, just no time.

Battle of Two Rivers was one of my favourite sequences in books, perhaps my favourite battle (Dumas Wells maybe close 2nd). I think overall it was done pretty well. Really captured the idea of Perrin bring them together, I loved the song part right before the battle in particular.

I've got some minor quibbles with it, including taking away Faile's big hero moment though. Tbh that was my biggest disappointment with the episode, as someone who really liked Faile in the books, even with her cultural relationship practices. The other one isn't shows fault but missing Tam stuck out. Unfortunately the actor was unavailable.

Hope they reference back to the heroism of the Tinkers' though. It got glossed over a bit in the show for time, but it takes incredible courage to have to wait until last moment and try to protect the children when you can't fight back.

One note though show, can we not have Alanna get impaled in every single episode. At certain point she's gonna be more holes than person. But seriously I kinda love the changes with regards to her and focus on her and her warders, it really informs certain upcoming actions. I'm just wondering if they've gone too far down her arc for certain things coming. We'll see how they handle it though, but that's next season at earliest.
in regards to alanna. They are clearly setting up the things that happen in book 6. Next season (if it gets approved) needs to books 5/6 combined.
 
It's pretty funny because her book plot armor is keeping her alive and yet enough spears and arrows have gone into her at this point that you're always a little curious if she's going to cheat death yet again.

She's definitely getting the opportunity to practice her "I'm in agony" acting skills.

As the show moves along, I suspect there will be more and more deviations from the book, not the least of which is the fact that the books kept getting bigger (peaking with Lord of Chaos I think?).

So far, they've done a good job of dumping extraneous characters and tightening up the plot to make it more efficient.

I actually don't mind a fair amount of change as it keeps someone familiar with the books on their toes a little bit and helps with the dramatic tension.

Provided that they don't massively change the personalities of the major characters or change their eventual fates.



I like how they cast Faile to be so different from the other characters and love interests on the show. She's small, but aggressive and confident. I think I always imagined her a little more regal.

I was also obsessed with her hooked nose because I think Robert Jordan brought it up every single page she was on. How big was this nose? How hooked? Would she still be attractive with that schnoz?

There were times where she was competing with Nynaeve as most annoying character. I think I like the screen version more, to date.

They do a good job of showing how deadly she can be (how about those Aiel though, it's nice to see their lethality on screen).

In any event, that Eamon Valda scene may even be better than the books, so kudos to them. And I think Lanfear may be better on screen than in the books as well.

Not sure about the Moiraine and Siuan relationship.

"Pillow friends" as written was more of a temporary, immature, going through puberty type relationship in a setting that excluded virtually all males (aside from Warders, who were either training separately or largely spoken for). They've really amped it up into the tragic love story of their lives.

Not sure what impact that might have on Moiraine's future romantic entanglements, if any.
I have zero issues with the moiraine/ Suian, Pillow friends was fine for its time, but it was written in the 90s.
Where they ended up made minimal sense so it works very well for me.
 
It's pretty funny because her book plot armor is keeping her alive and yet enough spears and arrows have gone into her at this point that you're always a little curious if she's going to cheat death yet again.

She's definitely getting the opportunity to practice her "I'm in agony" acting skills.

As the show moves along, I suspect there will be more and more deviations from the book, not the least of which is the fact that the books kept getting bigger (peaking with Lord of Chaos I think?).

So far, they've done a good job of dumping extraneous characters and tightening up the plot to make it more efficient.

I actually don't mind a fair amount of change as it keeps someone familiar with the books on their toes a little bit and helps with the dramatic tension.

Provided that they don't massively change the personalities of the major characters or change their eventual fates.



I like how they cast Faile to be so different from the other characters and love interests on the show. She's small, but aggressive and confident. I think I always imagined her a little more regal.

I was also obsessed with her hooked nose because I think Robert Jordan brought it up every single page she was on. How big was this nose? How hooked? Would she still be attractive with that schnoz?

There were times where she was competing with Nynaeve as most annoying character. I think I like the screen version more, to date.

They do a good job of showing how deadly she can be (how about those Aiel though, it's nice to see their lethality on screen).

In any event, that Eamon Valda scene may even be better than the books, so kudos to them. And I think Lanfear may be better on screen than in the books as well.

Not sure about the Moiraine and Siuan relationship.

"Pillow friends" as written was more of a temporary, immature, going through puberty type relationship in a setting that excluded virtually all males (aside from Warders, who were either training separately or largely spoken for). They've really amped it up into the tragic love story of their lives.

Not sure what impact that might have on Moiraine's future romantic entanglements, if any.

Haha alot to upack there, I'll just do a few pts.

Just so we're clear, I'm really lenient with adaptations with regards to changes myself. In fact I'd argue plenty of changes have been to benefit of the series. For example really love Gaebril's introduction this season, Lanfear's increased presence, black ajah battle, Elaida getting to show off her political skill, Perrin actually killing Bornhold Sr, etc, etc. But I will point out the couple things that annoy me as seen above. Obviously books of this size and scope are just unfilmable in their original forms. Overall I think they are doing a good job.

Honestly my eyes must have glossed over her nose thing as I've never really thought of it, tbh she looks nearly like I'd pictures her, maybe a little more goth. Her size vs Perrin is exactly what I'd always pictured and as someone who is over 1 foot taller and like 150lbs heavier than my wife idk I like that dynamic Hahaha.

I know most ppl hated book Faile, but for me when I read her and Perrin's stuff I almost always liked her. Yeah at times her childishness and ridiculous stuff with Berelain can grate a bit, but i mean I picked up nearly immediately on how Perrin was screwing up and it took the dunce like 8 books to figure it out. Ok I didn't predict the extent she was looking for (yelling/arguing) but it was pretty obvious she was craving the attention. Not too mention i don't think Faile ever really understood the scope of Perrin's wolf powers. In her own mind i think she was REALLY trying to be understanding, thought she was covering up her feelings well to be understanding but Perrin's scent powers which were super OP gave her away. I mean there are times I'm frustrated at my wife but I just hold it in cause I know my feelings are out of line/dumb and it just goes away. Id hate if my wife could basically mind read with scents and get upset when I'm dealing with shit my own way.

Just disappointed they didn't find a way to bring in "they're coming" dying man and then Faile's big moment in that episode. But seeing her kick ass was fun as well.

RJ's interpretation of lgbtq+ relationships was never going to pass in a big budget show in 2025. Just no. It's definitely area that had to be refined. We can argue all day whether Moiraine+Siuan was the right spot for that, but IMO they had either drop it altogether or expand it as they did. Considering the lack of other opportunities, im not surprised they expanded. I don't wanna say anymore for spoilery reasons and don't feel like spoiler tag wrapping it.
 
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in regards to alanna. They are clearly setting up the things that happen in book 6. Next season (if it gets approved) needs to books 5/6 combined.
K back to spoiler tags haha
Your talking bonding Rand right? Cause that's what I was thinking. As I mentioned I like the expanded focus on her and Maksim, their grief over losing Ivon. But this latest episode seemed to show Alanna and Maksim start to heal, which is what i mention with moving too far down her storyline too early. It seems like a backside to then have her so upset she bonds Rand against his will. I think the show is gonna kill Maksim to make the grief fresh and new again before she then forcibly bonds Rand. Jmo.

As for the future, I think the next one will combine books 5, parts of 6, and maybe parts of 3 that have been left out. Honestly when events happen to which book isn't completely clear in my head. But after 5 or 6 we stop having such explosive endings to books, so it'll make it more that they move fluidly through the books without having to tie it to ends of these books per se. And since we can't have main cast members just flat out disappear for a season, it's going to require alot of balancing out as the middle of it approaches.
 
RJ's interpretation of lgbtq+ relationships was never going to pass in a big budget show in 2025. Just no. It's definitely area that had to be refined. We can argue all day whether Moiraine+Siuan was the right spot for that, but IMO they had either drop it altogether or expand it as they did. Considering the lack of other opportunities, im not surprised they expanded. I don't wanna say anymore for spoilery reasons and don't feel like spoiler tag wrapping it.

Well. (book spoiler to follow)

I always liked Thom and I felt that their fate reveals a lot about Moiraine and what she values. There's a tendency to think of her as young because of her agelessness, and Thom kind of reinforces how old she is and what she is looking for in a partner.

The scene with Moiraine looking at a painting of her with her sister, where the elderly sister is a young child and Moiraine looks virtually the same, was a real emotional sledgehammer that really drives home the isolation and almost alien nature of the Aes Sedai.

In any event, I don't mind the pivot too much as it gave both actresses something else to draw from, and it intensified their conflict. It's more about Thom for me and how he is sort of rewarded for his intelligence, loyalty and compassion.

I suspect you are correct (it's been ~35 years!) that this angle will be eliminated entirely as it would be hard to pivot to Thom and not be insulting to certain communities. It's also not really that essential to the general plot.
 
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Well. (book spoiler to follow)

I always liked Thom and I felt that their fate reveals a lot about Moiraine and what she values. There's a tendency to think of her as young because of her agelessness, and Thom kind of reinforces how old she is and what she is looking for in a partner.

The scene with Moiraine looking at a painting of her with her sister, where the elderly sister is a young child and Moiraine looks virtually the same, was a real emotional sledgehammer that really drives home the isolation and almost alien nature of the Aes Sedai.

In any event, I don't mind the pivot too much as it gave both actresses something else to draw from, and it intensified their conflict. It's more about Thom for me and how he is sort of rewarded for his intelligence, loyalty and compassion.

I suspect you are correct (it's been ~35 years!) that this angle will be eliminated entirely as it would be hard to pivot to Thom and not be insulting to certain communities. It's also not really that essential to the general plot.
Yeah i don't disagree with anything here at all. However,
Seems to me they've already kinda sidelined Thom. And to be fair, after they hit Salidar i don't really remember him much at all until...Tower of Ghenji? Honestly could not really tell you where he ended up in the interim, tagging along with Mat in guess? Idk Mat's entourage out of Talmanes, Oliver and I guess Teslyn for a minute all kinda blurs together to me.
But yeah i think the ending pairing of Moiraine-Thom is not gonna happen. They never even met in the show to date that I'm aware of.
I suspect Byrne is gonna be cut or re-written to eliminate the Siuan romance as well. Maybe not but we'll see.
Again I'm not 100% sure Moiraine+Siuan was the right call in regards to elevating an LGBTQ+ relationship, but they had to drop the pillow friends idea one way or the other. It's a very outdated idea.
 
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Again I'm not 100% sure Moiraine+Siuan was the right call in regards to elevating an LGBTQ+ relationship, but they had to drop the pillow friends idea one way or the other. It's a very outdated idea.

Well, science-fiction and to a lesser extent fantasy were always supposed to be about exploring ideas.

Theoretically, you could have a character marry a chair and say "Well, this is how certain relationships are formed with inanimate objects in this world that I've created".

But, when it comes to adapting to a mass television audience in the 21st century, I can see why they are avoiding the trope of conveniently and alluringly lesbian until they aren't.

Also, I think it adds a bit of emotional gravitas to a series that, despite its length, can be pretty barren of deep relationships. Asimov was famously terrible at writing characters (not that Jordan is that bad), but some of the rougher edges can always be smoothed out when adapting to other formats.

I've really wondered how they would handle harem Rand if it were written today. Even at the time it felt like a little too much of the author's self-insertion into fan fiction territory. So far, they've done a pretty good job of establishing relationships among the women (e.g. Elayne and Aviendha) which makes me think that they are going to be consistent. Ultimately, you can always just say that he's ta'veren, so there's your explanation.
 
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K back to spoiler tags haha
Your talking bonding Rand right? Cause that's what I was thinking. As I mentioned I like the expanded focus on her and Maksim, their grief over losing Ivon. But this latest episode seemed to show Alanna and Maksim start to heal, which is what i mention with moving too far down her storyline too early. It seems like a backside to then have her so upset she bonds Rand against his will. I think the show is gonna kill Maksim to make the grief fresh and new again before she then forcibly bonds Rand. Jmo.

As for the future, I think the next one will combine books 5, parts of 6, and maybe parts of 3 that have been left out. Honestly when events happen to which book isn't completely clear in my head. But after 5 or 6 we stop having such explosive endings to books, so it'll make it more that they move fluidly through the books without having to tie it to ends of these books per se. And since we can't have main cast members just flat out disappear for a season, it's going to require alot of balancing out as the middle of it approaches.
What’s under the spoiler tag. That is what I’m referring to.
 
If Loial did die, the fact that the Heroes Of The Horn music played during his fall makes me feel that the next time the horn is blown, he'll be among the heroes.
 
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