Online Series: The Wheel of Time (Prime Video, Nov 22)

[Holden Caulfield]

Season 3 will be just book 4.
Book 2/3 have a similar plot so they don’t want to do them both.

The plan is 8 seasons.


My favorites are 4-6, 12-14.

Cool. My memory of the books was pretty spotty, I definitely thought the Aiel showing up in S2 was out of place from the books, but I think they did a fine job with it. That makes sense. I'd heard they were combining a bit of book 3 into season 2 (hence the Aiel plotline) and I'd thought I'd heard some of book 3 was going to stuffed into S3 along with all/most of book 4. But basically they are going to be removing much of book 3 altogether, which I agree does follow many of the same beats as book 2 from what I recall (I guess I'll find out soon, I'm almost through book 2 now in my re-read haha).

Best thing I think show's done has been soften Nynaeve a little bit. Reading the first couple of books and I freaking can't stand Nynaeve. She is petulant whiny little child with a hate on for Moraine that goes beyond anything that is close to rational. She drives me nuts in these books. I much prefer the shows take on that character.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Cool. My memory of the books was pretty spotty, I definitely thought the Aiel showing up in S2 was out of place from the books, but I think they did a fine job with it. That makes sense. I'd heard they were combining a bit of book 3 into season 2 (hence the Aiel plotline) and I'd thought I'd heard some of book 3 was going to stuffed into S3 along with all/most of book 4. But basically they are going to be removing much of book 3 altogether, which I agree does follow many of the same beats as book 2 from what I recall (I guess I'll find out soon, I'm almost through book 2 now in my re-read haha).

Best thing I think show's done has been soften Nynaeve a little bit. Reading the first couple of books and I freaking can't stand Nynaeve. She is petulant whiny little child with a hate on for Moraine that goes beyond anything that is close to rational. She drives me nuts in these books. I much prefer the shows take on that character.

The aiel do show up in book 2, but it’s not avi or Gaul.

I’ve re-read the entire series about 10x.

Nyneave in the books has an incredible growth arc, and the show is doing a fantastic job with it.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

The aiel do show up in book 2, but it’s not avi or Gaul.

I’ve re-read the entire series about 10x.

Nyneave in the books has an incredible growth arc, and the show is doing a fantastic job with it.

I just read through Ingtar/Perrin/Mat/Verin meeting a solitary Aiel a day or two ago, which I didn't recall from before. But I don't remember them being as big a part of it.

I believe you 100%, but in the first two books at least (those are the ones I recalled the best and even then it was spotty before my re-read over the past couple of weeks) I cannot stand the character at all. I know some spoilers from later on, I realize she gets better but I was really hoping the whole two books I had forgotten the scene where someone steals her staff and knocks her upside the head. She's supposed to be the oldest and "wisest" of the Two Rivers 5 when they depart, but she's the only one who seems completely unable to come to terms with anything and just lashes out at random stuff for no reason. She's just...dumb most of the time. I get that I haven't gotten to her actual arc yet, but I will. I'm sure it'll be nice and satisfying, but right now I do not like her at all. I do agree the show is doing a great job with it, she still has that immaturity, anger and stubbornness but I don't want to physically shake her and tell to stop being a moron and focus on what actually matters like I do with the book.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I just read through Ingtar/Perrin/Mat/Verin meeting a solitary Aiel a day or two ago, which I didn't recall from before. But I don't remember them being as big a part of it.

I believe you 100%, but in the first two books at least (those are the ones I recalled the best and even then it was spotty before my re-read over the past couple of weeks) I cannot stand the character at all. I know some spoilers from later on, I realize she gets better but I was really hoping the whole two books I had forgotten the scene where someone steals her staff and knocks her upside the head. She's supposed to be the oldest and "wisest" of the Two Rivers 5 when they depart, but she's the only one who seems completely unable to come to terms with anything and just lashes out at random stuff for no reason. She's just...dumb most of the time. I get that I haven't gotten to her actual arc yet, but I will. I'm sure it'll be nice and satisfying, but right now I do not like her at all. I do agree the show is doing a great job with it, she still has that immaturity, anger and stubbornness but I don't want to physically shake her and tell to stop being a moron and focus on what actually matters like I do with the book.

As an adult I get early nyneave a lot more.

She’s a child placed in a position of authority that no one wants to listen to. The only way anyone listens to her is when she’s abrasive, so that becomes her personality.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

As an adult I get early nyneave a lot more.

She’s a child placed in a position of authority that no one wants to listen to. The only way anyone listens to her is when she’s abrasive, so that becomes her personality.

Yup for sure I get that. And I know that she's not actually mad at Moraine, she's just jealous that Moiraine gets to be "with" Lan but she can't admit that even to herself so she twists it to still mad at Moiraine for pulling her out of Two Rivers.

I understand it but still find it super annoying.

Anyways, I'll have more to talk about in a couple weeks probably when I'm into hopefully book 5 or 6 haha.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Yup for sure I get that. And I know that she's not actually mad at Moraine, she's just jealous that Moiraine gets to be "with" Lan but she can't admit that even to herself so she twists it to still mad at Moiraine for pulling her out of Two Rivers.

I understand it but still find it super annoying.

Anyways, I'll have more to talk about in a couple weeks probably when I'm into hopefully book 5 or 6 haha.

Oh no she definitely doesn’t like moiraine and it has nothing to do with lan initially.

Moiraine is an adult woman, who has respect and authority, without having to be abrasive.

 

[Osprey]

seems like not many of us here watch this show huh? (solely judging based on the lack of talk in this thread)

The Nielsen numbers are way down, too. The first three episodes of S1 garnered 1.16 billion minutes viewed. The first three episodes of S2 garnered only 515 million minutes. That's a 55.6% drop in viewership.

 

[IDvsEGO]

The Nielsen numbers are way down, too. The first three episodes of S1 garnered 1.16 billion minutes viewed. The first three episodes of S2 garnered only 515 minutes. That's a 55.6% drop in viewership.

id wait till ep 6 numbers.

 

[Osprey]

id wait till ep 6 numbers.

Since the week of Ep 5 was also 515M, I imagine that the week of Ep 6 did about the same. Weeks 2-6 (Eps 4-8) of S1 varied between 467M and 663M and averaged 574M, so we're still looking at a decline, but only 10%. It's also worth noting that these recent numbers include minutes of S1 watched.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Since the week of Ep 5 was also 515M, I imagine that the week of Ep 6 did about the same. Weeks 2-6 (Eps 4-8) of S1 varied between 467M and 663M and averaged 574M, so we're still looking at a decline, but only 10%. It's also worth noting that these recent numbers include minutes of S1 watched.

ep6 got incredible reviews, and that’s when I think the show really turned the corner from mid viewing to actual buzz worthy.

 

[Osprey]

ep6 got incredible reviews, and that’s when I think the show really turned the corner from mid viewing to actual buzz worthy.

I doubt that the numbers changed much. Andor's Ep6 got incredible reviews (9.1 on IMDb, compared to 8.9 for WoT's Ep6) and really started the buzz for that show, but it barely moved the needle in terms of weekly minutes watched (link).

 

[The Marquis]

Buzz also doesn’t mean anything anymore. It’s created, not earned.

 

[Bounces R Way]

The 2nd season was a lot better I thought. More stuff happening, less bad character building and more good. Lots of likeable villains, I dunno who is dressing Lanfear but they deserve a raise. Really the whole art department for this show +++ looks spectacular


I never read the books but my gf has and tbh I'd be pretty lost without her. There is a lot going on. At least half the time I have no idea who these people are or what their motivations were. Like the finale was wild, but who was that guy dressed in red & black with the beard who's death seemed like a big moment. Also where the hell did that horn come from? Did they set that up? I know they re-casted Matt and I thought the new guy was good.

 

[Make]

The 2nd season was a lot better I thought. More stuff happening, less bad character building and more good. Lots of likeable villains, I dunno who is dressing Lanfear but they deserve a raise. Really the whole art department for this show +++ looks spectacular


I never read the books but my gf has and tbh I'd be pretty lost without her. There is a lot going on. At least half the time I have no idea who these people are or what their motivations were. Like the finale was wild, but who was that guy dressed in red & black with the beard who's death seemed like a big moment. Also where the hell did that horn come from? Did they set that up? I know they re-casted Matt and I thought the new guy was good.

I'd say they didn't do a great job with setting up the Horn of Valere or Ingtar (I assume that's the guy you're referring to). The Horn was mentioned early in Season 2 when Perrin and his gang were chasing it after Padan Fain had stolen it back in S1E8, but after the Seanchan got a hold of it it was basically tucked away and ignored in the show. Then supposedly "a lady from Cairhien helped us get it" off screen which meant Lanfear. So yeah, a bit of a lackluster climax for how they got the Horn back.

On Ingtar, I'll put it in spoilers because explaining it requires book knowledge.

Spoiler

In the books (and I assume in the show as well to an extent) Ingtar is revealed as a Darkfriend at the end of the Great Hunt. However, before his death he confesses his wrongdoings and basically "comes back to the Light" in a touching scene where he sacrifices himself so the others can escape. For some reason the show skipped that reveal which made his arc fall flat. There were some hints early in the season when he took care to offer a proper burial to some of the Darkfriends and tried to reason why they did what they did to Perrin but that was pretty much the only hint we got of him being a DF.

 

[RandV]

Finally caught up. In season 1 not sure what changes 'Matt' caused to happen as the ending seemed more focused on teen drama and the changes made it much weaker compared to the books, but the changes to season 2 were solid. Unlike some other fantasy series adaption really showed that they have a firm grasp and love for the source material. Like a big change to season 1 ending that wasn't understand at the time, but changing the 'dark one's seals' to 'the forsaken's seals' is an interesting and clever change.

Makes me wonder how many they'll include going forward though. The Forsaken are Lord of the Rings adjacent to the Nazgul, except instead of being reduced to the state of a group of scary horsemen who chase Frodo around they're fully fleshed out characters still in their full power. A big reason that The Wheel of Time is 14 books long is because there's like 13 of these guys all doing their own thing and they all have to be handled by the Scooby gang:



We got Moghedian, the Spider, at the end there, so I wonder who else will make it.

Another nice small touch was the handling of Uno. A minor but lovable character, I was a bit shocked when he got spiked. But then they brought him back as a hero of the horn? Both a clever though likely futile attempt to teach newcomers how it works (basically binds hero's of the past to it's called, but they're still spat back out to live and die like everyone else in 'the wheel') and a great upgrade/tribute to the character.

There were a few things I could knit pick at, but all within reason for what you'd expect of TV. Like has been mentioned, at the end Morraine should way more power than she should have had. Another one that bugged me was a distinct change to Min's character, I could understand the change to her wanting to get rid of her power, but in the books she's constantly telling people 'what I see will happen and can't be changed', it's something she's learn and grown to understand. So kind of weak to have an older Min try to convince Matt to stay away from Rand. And finally, at the very end of season 1 Loilel got stabbed with the very evil & powerful dagger and critically no channelers around. Then two start season 2 he just... got better? I know they said after season 1 don't worry about Loiel he'll be back but are we pretending that just didn't happen?

Anyways I think I've rambled enough for now, can't wait for season 3 and beyond! Though it's probably going to be a 2 year wait.

 

[RandV]

Oh and of course, **** yeah Matt! Another sensible change, he was a bit of a mopy drag at the start of the books too before finding his way to grow into the best lead character.

And did I hear a call out to Cadsuane Sedai? 'She (Nynaeve) is the fasted to reach accepted since Cadsuane Sedai!'. Cadsuane is an end game character so it will probably be a while, but can't wait for the badass of badass Aes Sedai to show up!

Edit: Just doing some googling, it might be older news but looks likely that Shohreh Aghdashloo, who plays Chrisjen Avasarala in The Expense, and all I can say is **** yeah!

 

[IDvsEGO]

Oh and of course, **** yeah Matt! Another sensible change, he was a bit of a mopy drag at the start of the books too before finding his way to grow into the best lead character.

And did I hear a call out to Cadsuane Sedai? 'She (Nynaeve) is the fasted to reach accepted since Cadsuane Sedai!'. Cadsuane is an end game character so it will probably be a while, but can't wait for the badass of badass Aes Sedai to show up!

Edit: Just doing some googling, it might be older news but looks likely that Shohreh Aghdashloo, who plays Chrisjen Avasarala in The Expense, and all I can say is **** yeah!

Shohreh is gonna be elaida.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Finally caught up. In season 1 not sure what changes 'Matt' caused to happen as the ending seemed more focused on teen drama and the changes made it much weaker compared to the books, but the changes to season 2 were solid. Unlike some other fantasy series adaption really showed that they have a firm grasp and love for the source material. Like a big change to season 1 ending that wasn't understand at the time, but changing the 'dark one's seals' to 'the forsaken's seals' is an interesting and clever change.

Makes me wonder how many they'll include going forward though. The Forsaken are Lord of the Rings adjacent to the Nazgul, except instead of being reduced to the state of a group of scary horsemen who chase Frodo around they're fully fleshed out characters still in their full power. A big reason that The Wheel of Time is 14 books long is because there's like 13 of these guys all doing their own thing and they all have to be handled by the Scooby gang:



We got Moghedian, the Spider, at the end there, so I wonder who else will make it.

Another nice small touch was the handling of Uno. A minor but lovable character, I was a bit shocked when he got spiked. But then they brought him back as a hero of the horn? Both a clever though likely futile attempt to teach newcomers how it works (basically binds hero's of the past to it's called, but they're still spat back out to live and die like everyone else in 'the wheel') and a great upgrade/tribute to the character.

There were a few things I could knit pick at, but all within reason for what you'd expect of TV. Like has been mentioned, at the end Morraine should way more power than she should have had. Another one that bugged me was a distinct change to Min's character, I could understand the change to her wanting to get rid of her power, but in the books she's constantly telling people 'what I see will happen and can't be changed', it's something she's learn and grown to understand. So kind of weak to have an older Min try to convince Matt to stay away from Rand. And finally, at the very end of season 1 Loilel got stabbed with the very evil & powerful dagger and critically no channelers around. Then two start season 2 he just... got better? I know they said after season 1 don't worry about Loiel he'll be back but are we pretending that just didn't happen?

Anyways I think I've rambled enough for now, can't wait for season 3 and beyond! Though it's probably going to be a 2 year wait.

So the actor who played Matt refused to return when filming resuming following the COVID shutdown. Which is why they had to write him out of the final two episodes of Season 1. They also mentioned that's why they had Rand go alone to Eye of the World. Additionally they had written out a large portion of S2 during the COVID break, but following the actor who played Matt quiting and the subsequent re-writing of the last two episodes they had to re-write large portions of S2 to accomodate the change in storylines. I saw an article that mentioned the split up the group for basically individual stories in S2 was due to this.

As for the Forsaken it appears all but confirmed that they've reduced the Forsaken from 13 to 8. Ishmael, Lanfear, Moghedien are obviously 3 of them as they've appeared on screen. By name Sammael and Graendal have been mentioned. We don't know who the last 3 are. It seems likely the show will go with 4 females and 4 males for balance. Which would leave 1 female forsaken and 2 male forsaken left to be revealed. It does seem to contradict a particular line of dialogue from Lanfear this season though which seems to indicate the remaining unknown forsaken are male though, so we'll see.

For all the bad timing, Wheel of Time has actually hit a string of decent/good luck in terms of Season 3. The writing was done before the writers strike. Also due to some reasons I'm not entirely clear on (I'm not CBA/international law expert) this show is not subject to the SAG-AFTRA strike. So they are just finishing up filming for S3 and should be done by end of the year. So with little else to work on I would think Amazon would be rushing out the VFX and post production on the season to get it out next year when they have a dearth of content caused by the strikes this year.

 

[Tawnos]

So the actor who played Matt refused to return when filming resuming following the COVID shutdown. Which is why they had to write him out of the final two episodes of Season 1. They also mentioned that's why they had Rand go alone to Eye of the World. Additionally they had written out a large portion of S2 during the COVID break, but following the actor who played Matt quiting and the subsequent re-writing of the last two episodes they had to re-write large portions of S2 to accomodate the change in storylines. I saw an article that mentioned the split up the group for basically individual stories in S2 was due to this.

As for the Forsaken it appears all but confirmed that they've reduced the Forsaken from 13 to 8. Ishmael, Lanfear, Moghedien are obviously 3 of them as they've appeared on screen. By name Sammael and Graendal have been mentioned. We don't know who the last 3 are. It seems likely the show will go with 4 females and 4 males for balance. Which would leave 1 female forsaken and 2 male forsaken left to be revealed. It does seem to contradict a particular line of dialogue from Lanfear this season though which seems to indicate the remaining unknown forsaken are male though, so we'll see.

For all the bad timing, Wheel of Time has actually hit a string of decent/good luck in terms of Season 3. The writing was done before the writers strike. Also due to some reasons I'm not entirely clear on (I'm not CBA/international law expert) this show is not subject to the SAG-AFTRA strike. So they are just finishing up filming for S3 and should be done by end of the year. So with little else to work on I would think Amazon would be rushing out the VFX and post production on the season to get it out next year when they have a dearth of content caused by the strikes this year.

They do have Rings of Power probably early spring, so maybe it'll be summer? That would be awesome.

 

[IDvsEGO]

So the actor who played Matt refused to return when filming resuming following the COVID shutdown. Which is why they had to write him out of the final two episodes of Season 1. They also mentioned that's why they had Rand go alone to Eye of the World. Additionally they had written out a large portion of S2 during the COVID break, but following the actor who played Matt quiting and the subsequent re-writing of the last two episodes they had to re-write large portions of S2 to accomodate the change in storylines. I saw an article that mentioned the split up the group for basically individual stories in S2 was due to this.

As for the Forsaken it appears all but confirmed that they've reduced the Forsaken from 13 to 8. Ishmael, Lanfear, Moghedien are obviously 3 of them as they've appeared on screen. By name Sammael and Graendal have been mentioned. We don't know who the last 3 are. It seems likely the show will go with 4 females and 4 males for balance. Which would leave 1 female forsaken and 2 male forsaken left to be revealed. It does seem to contradict a particular line of dialogue from Lanfear this season though which seems to indicate the remaining unknown forsaken are male though, so we'll see.

For all the bad timing, Wheel of Time has actually hit a string of decent/good luck in terms of Season 3. The writing was done before the writers strike. Also due to some reasons I'm not entirely clear on (I'm not CBA/international law expert) this show is not subject to the SAG-AFTRA strike. So they are just finishing up filming for S3 and should be done by end of the year. So with little else to work on I would think Amazon would be rushing out the VFX and post production on the season to get it out next year when they have a dearth of content caused by the strikes this year.

They’re not subject to the strike because their filming in Europe, where they have different contracts.
The actors can’t promote it though. So that’s kinda tough, but otherwise yeah, they lucked out with the writers.

 

[Jussi]

Season 3 under way and has continued the trend of season 2 of major improvement. Season 2 was much better than Rings Of Power season 2 , which I thought was a significant improvement over the first, and after three episodes, the difference in quality between the shows for a non-book reader just keeps growing. Shohreh Aghdashloo just keeps eating up the scenery in what ever project she's in and is a welcome addition for this season.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Season 3 under way and has continued the trend of season 2 of major improvement. Season 2 was much better than Rings Of Power season 2 , which I thought was a significant improvement over the first, and after three episodes, the difference in quality between the shows for a non-book reader just keeps growing. Shohreh Aghdashloo just keeps eating up the scenery in what ever project she's in and is a welcome addition for this season.

They’re pulling from some of the best book plots.
If they do it justice they’ll get renewed for s4.
And if they can get s4 (which should end w book 6) they should be able to finish.

 

[Osprey]

Season 3 has started? I haven't seen a shred of advertisement and assumed that it was quite a ways away still. I suppose that I should finally start Season 2.

Edit: I just read a review by Forbes' Erik Kain, whom I usually agree with and trust when it comes to TV shows. He really enjoyed the first 4 episodes.

‘The Wheel Of Time’ Season 3 Review: Amazon’s Epic Fantasy Has Gotten Surprisingly Good

The Wheel Of Time has vastly improved after its tepid first season. Season 3 is genuinely top-notch fantasy TV.

www.forbes.com

 

[The Marquis]

Season 3 has started? I haven't seen a shred of advertisement and assumed that it was quite a ways away still. I suppose that I should finally start Season 2.

Typical for Amazon. Everything on Prime feels to me like I have to be tuned into social media to find out about. I'm NOT tuned into social media, so I have to rely on others.

Nothing I'm about to say should be looked at as a spoiler.

That said, I'm a book reader and there are a couple of things in the first 3 episodes this season that I really don't like at all, from a character and plot progression standpoint, but it's still EXCELLENT. Make no mistake, one of my two gripes is personal preference for two characters and the other is really how it feels like they wrapped up an idea in season 2 that made it so they should have just completely skipped over an idea they've run with in season 3... which sort of feels like they are appeasing to the book readers, but about something that I think they wrapped up nicely in season 2 and didn't need to bring back from the dead.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Season 3 under way and has continued the trend of season 2 of major improvement. Season 2 was much better than Rings Of Power season 2 , which I thought was a significant improvement over the first, and after three episodes, the difference in quality between the shows for a non-book reader just keeps growing. Shohreh Aghdashloo just keeps eating up the scenery in what ever project she's in and is a welcome addition for this season.

Agreed. Book readers are still struggling with all the changes but, despite myself also being a book reader, I'm mostly ok with them. Some changes kinda frustrated me. For example, Mat in particular. Some of Mat's changes aren't the showrunners fault (original actor was an anti-vax moron) but some are just perplexing to me (memories are via horn, really?). But then again some are awesome such as I don't feel like someone needs to smacking Nynaeve upside the head for the first half of the story like I did in the books.

"Chewing the scenery" was a constant observation of Aghdashloo's character Elaida in the books. It's a master class in casting and looks to be execution so far, IMO. They've leveled Elaida up from the books, and she was a great character in the books. They've are given her more depth and honestly skills than she ever had in books. Can't wait until her arc really starts to ramp up.

I was questioning them skipping book 3, but honestly it does make more sense for Rand to head to the waste before Tear. I'm just disappointed Mat didn't go with them. I'm hoping they'll repurpose his storyline in Tanchico but I guess we'll see.

I'm sure I'm gonna be called crazy but Faile is a favourite character of mine. So I was super excited to see her show up her in S3, and so far I'm liking the characterization.