The weird case of the 2011 draft. What where they thinking?

[SwedishFire]

When i look back at drafts, There is four drafts that stads out, 1996 - probably the worst draft ever, not even half the players in that 1st round sticked at NHL! 1999 - After the Sedins there where almost nothing. And 2011 and 2012 - top 4 where all close to busts or major dissapointments.

That 2011 draft had no real superstar, maybe Huberdeau and Zibanejad If they waited a year with that draft. Ryan Strome at 5? Even at the draft it was way to high, I will never understand.

Duncan Siemens at 11, MarkMcNeil at 18 while there was obvoius bryter choices even at that time. And between 21 - 25 Ottawa and Toronto went dumb mode; Already at 21 ; Stephan Noesen, the roof is/was a 3rd liner -worthy of a 1st round? 22 Tyler Biggs ECHL level of a player even at the draft23 Joe Morrow - just didnt cut it I guess? 24 Matt Puempel - slowest player in the league? What was his assets really? 25 Stuart Percy - a big guy Who wasnt physichal.

and a lot of players that took an eternity to make a name of themselfs in the league;. Strangest case is JT Miller Who went from mediocre trade dump to a 100 pt player!!!
The start of 2nd round- first ten players on theblist wasnt even NHL caliber! but had Edumdson, Kuvherov, Saad etc. far below. Such a super poor draft. What where Ottawa, Chicago and Toronto (Burke..) thinking?? Adam Clemming ahead of Edmundson is some strange drafting I must say.
Is scouts still in the narriative that offensiven Dmens always will be better Dmens?

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[lawrence]

1999 after the twins there was Richard jackman Tim Connolly Martin havlat and Henrik setterberg.

 

[Sanderson]

What's so weird about it?

First of, you cannot judge the behaviour of people based on hindsight, you have to look at the knowledge available at that point in time.

Secondly, if a draft is considered to be weaker, some teams might opt for projects. If there is no obvious high-end talent who is a safe bet, why not take a gamble on someone who has a high ceiling or at least an intriguing skillset, even if he might never get there?
That's especially true in the later stages of the first round.

Yes, some teams made odd choices, but that's something you can say for virtually every draft. There is nothing about the drafts you mentioned that makes them an outlier in that regard.

Ryan Strome put up 106 points in 65 games in his draft season. Good enough for third in the OHL, with less games played than the players ahead of him. He was a perfectly valid choice at that point.
Plenty of the players you've mentioned had good junior seasons. For quite a few that didn't translate to the NHL later on, but again, that's like basically every year.

Look at the actual performances of the players. You criticise Siemers and Morrow, and wonder why Clendening got drafted ahead of Edmundson. A quick glance at their ratings and their respective seasons would tell you exactly why they were taken ahead of Edmundson.

Same with Saad. He had a good but not great season in the OHL as a late 1992 player, Noesen and Puempel, who you criticise, had better seasons and were a couple of months younger. There was no reason to assume that Saad would end up being the much better player.

Some players develop early and then plateau, some players have the tools to look good in juniors but not to succeed in the NHL, some players make a big jump right before the draft, and some only years later. Some players are stuck behind others and thus can't show their true potential right away. Some players end up with an NHL-franchise that screws up their development. It is anything but easy to find out who still has plenty of development left and how hasn't.

 

[rubenflamshep]

I have data going back to 1997 and some free time so I calculated the number of NHL games played by each draft in the first 7 post-draft years:

YEAR    # Games
1999    8079
2000    8367
2007    8825
1997    9365
2002    9488
2006    9834
2001    10169
2010    10283
2017    10606
2005    10740
2016    10991
2004    11338
2014    11408
2008    11536
2009    12438
2012    12475
2013    12628
2011    13149
2015    13419
2003    13646
1998    14668

@lawrence's intuition was good re: 1999 being a particularly bad one. It produced the least # of NHL games of any draft going back to 1997!

2011 isn't actually that bad a year (actually 4th most NHL games of any draft in the timespan):

Going to echo @Sanderson that a lot of decisions look wacky in retrospect. Brian Burke is also maybe the worst drafting GM of the last 20 years so I wouldn't pay too much attention to what he gets up to:

 

[lawrence]

I have data going back to 1997 and some free time so I calculated the number of NHL games played by each draft in the first 7 post-draft years:

YEAR    # Games
1999    8079
2000    8367
2007    8825
1997    9365
2002    9488
2006    9834
2001    10169
2010    10283
2017    10606
2005    10740
2016    10991
2004    11338
2014    11408
2008    11536
2009    12438
2012    12475
2013    12628
2011    13149
2015    13419
2003    13646
1998    14668

@lawrence's intuition was good re: 1999 being a particularly bad one. It produced the least # of NHL games of any draft going back to 1997!

2011 isn't actually that bad a year (actually 4th most NHL games of any draft in the timespan):
View attachment 889966

Going to echo @Sanderson that a lot of decisions look wacky in retrospect. Brian Burke is also maybe the worst drafting GM of the last 20 years so I wouldn't pay too much attention to what he gets up to:
View attachment 889968

Briak Burke his own words, mentioned that the 1999 draft was so bad he was considering trading it, despite the Canucks having a awful season, and likely to be a top 4 pick. he just didn't want the pick and believed he could get something to help the team next year.

Thomas Gradin convinced him otherwise about the Sedin twins, and that well hold on, maybe we can use the pick to grab one of them, he really liked the twins. Burke went to watch the Twins play along with 2 other gms. Burke acted like a poker player. The 2 other gms thought they were very good. Burke was like, "meh they were ok" he was convinced to keep the pick and eventually was able to trade for the other pick and grabbed both twins. but yea 1999 weak as hell.

 

[SwedishFire]

What's so weird about it?

First of, you cannot judge the behaviour of people based on hindsight, you have to look at the knowledge available at that point in time.

Secondly, if a draft is considered to be weaker, some teams might opt for projects. If there is no obvious high-end talent who is a safe bet, why not take a gamble on someone who has a high ceiling or at least an intriguing skillset, even if he might never get there?
That's especially true in the later stages of the first round.

Yes, some teams made odd choices, but that's something you can say for virtually every draft. There is nothing about the drafts you mentioned that makes them an outlier in that regard.

Ryan Strome put up 106 points in 65 games in his draft season. Good enough for third in the OHL, with less games played than the players ahead of him. He was a perfectly valid choice at that point.
Plenty of the players you've mentioned had good junior seasons. For quite a few that didn't translate to the NHL later on, but again, that's like basically every year.

Look at the actual performances of the players. You criticise Siemers and Morrow, and wonder why Clendening got drafted ahead of Edmundson. A quick glance at their ratings and their respective seasons would tell you exactly why they were taken ahead of Edmundson.

Same with Saad. He had a good but not great season in the OHL as a late 1992 player, Noesen and Puempel, who you criticise, had better seasons and were a couple of months younger. There was no reason to assume that Saad would end up being the much better player.

Some players develop early and then plateau, some players have the tools to look good in juniors but not to succeed in the NHL, some players make a big jump right before the draft, and some only years later. Some players are stuck behind others and thus can't show their true potential right away. Some players end up with an NHL-franchise that screws up their development. It is anything but easy to find out who still has plenty of development left and how hasn't.

I remmeber that draft, and there was a OpenOffice gate for the No1, with RNH finally nagging it in the spring.

Saad was considered a Great prospect, and was a faller at the draft, and really i dont know why.
Strome made a lot of points, but was known to be kind of soft.

Siemens at 11 was and is a real headscratcher, even at that time the draft was held.

Noesen was a real reach at the time, but actually become at least something quite useful.

But it was a year there it was more 1st rounders than usual that was major dissapointments or even busts. Half the 1st round was out of NHL under close to 80 games.

 

[Jumptheshark]

When i look back at drafts, There is four drafts that stads out, 1996 - probably the worst draft ever, not even half the players in that 1st round sticked at NHL! 1999 - After the Sedins there where almost nothing. And 2011 and 2012 - top 4 where all close to busts or major dissapointments.

That 2011 draft had no real superstar, maybe Huberdeau and Zibanejad If they waited a year with that draft. Ryan Strome at 5? Even at the draft it was way to high, I will never understand.

Duncan Siemens at 11, MarkMcNeil at 18 while there was obvoius bryter choices even at that time. And between 21 - 25 Ottawa and Toronto went dumb mode; Already at 21 ; Stephan Noesen, the roof is/was a 3rd liner -worthy of a 1st round? 22 Tyler Biggs ECHL level of a player even at the draft23 Joe Morrow - just didnt cut it I guess? 24 Matt Puempel - slowest player in the league? What was his assets really? 25 Stuart Percy - a big guy Who wasnt physichal.

and a lot of players that took an eternity to make a name of themselfs in the league;. Strangest case is JT Miller Who went from mediocre trade dump to a 100 pt player!!!
The start of 2nd round- first ten players on theblist wasnt even NHL caliber! but had Edumdson, Kuvherov, Saad etc. far below. Such a super poor draft. What where Ottawa, Chicago and Toronto (Burke..) thinking?? Adam Clemming ahead of Edmundson is some strange drafting I must say.
Is scouts still in the narriative that offensiven Dmens always will be better Dmens?

It was not considered a hall of fame type of draft. Lots of projects were in that draft

 

[GKJ]

Two of the favorites for 1OV going into the season were Adam Larsson and Sean Couturier. Larsson was supposed to be a high-end D, and Couturier got mono that affected his whole season.

 

[SwedishFire]

It was not considered a hall of fame type of draft. Lots of projects were in that draft

I think that thing, this draft was a projectdraft, with the real superstar - Kucherov considered a risk cause KHL bound, snd hardly could speak english... what an epic GM fail to not draft him as a chancepick.

Landeskog was no1 christmastime.
Coutorier was considered a solidplayer, but without any flashy or finesse plays. No superstar by any means asa no1 should be as a narriative, and my guess that effected him from being a no1 candidate.

Larsson and Coutorier was early developed physically, and probably therefor they was ahead at the pre- draftyears.

Actual potential talentwise at that time, the top should been Kuch, Landeskog, Huberdeau, Nuge, Zibnejad, Schefiele, Coutorier, Hamilton - had size, skating and talent dont know why he fall to 9?? , Brodin, Klefbom.

Yes, Larsson not rven a top 10 pick. He had size and a breakout pass.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

When i look back at drafts, There is four drafts that stads out, 1996 - probably the worst draft ever, not even half the players in that 1st round sticked at NHL! 1999 - After the Sedins there where almost nothing. And 2011 and 2012 - top 4 where all close to busts or major dissapointments.

That 2011 draft had no real superstar, maybe Huberdeau and Zibanejad If they waited a year with that draft. Ryan Strome at 5? Even at the draft it was way to high, I will never understand.

Duncan Siemens at 11, MarkMcNeil at 18 while there was obvoius bryter choices even at that time. And between 21 - 25 Ottawa and Toronto went dumb mode; Already at 21 ; Stephan Noesen, the roof is/was a 3rd liner -worthy of a 1st round? 22 Tyler Biggs ECHL level of a player even at the draft23 Joe Morrow - just didnt cut it I guess? 24 Matt Puempel - slowest player in the league? What was his assets really? 25 Stuart Percy - a big guy Who wasnt physichal.

and a lot of players that took an eternity to make a name of themselfs in the league;. Strangest case is JT Miller Who went from mediocre trade dump to a 100 pt player!!!
The start of 2nd round- first ten players on theblist wasnt even NHL caliber! but had Edumdson, Kuvherov, Saad etc. far below. Such a super poor draft. What where Ottawa, Chicago and Toronto (Burke..) thinking?? Adam Clemming ahead of Edmundson is some strange drafting I must say.
Is scouts still in the narriative that offensiven Dmens always will be better Dmens?

Mark McNeill had 81 points in 70 games in the Dub in his DY. But didn't progress, regressed the next two years in junior with 71 points in 69 games and then 67 points in 65 games.

By the time he got to pro, he didn't have enough skill to consistently score at the pro level, and wasn't a versatile forward who could play up and down the lineup like Saad and Shaw nor a bottom 6 energy sparkplug like Kruger and Smith, nor the big body presence that Bickell had.

Saad had a disappointing DY which is why he fell, but then he popped off in his D+1 and then made the Blackhawks coming out of the 2012 Lockout and didn't look back. He was a projected top 10 pick for the 2011 Draft before the 2010-11 season, then just had a disappointing season with Saginaw. Apparently the Penguins scouts told Shero to take Saad, the hometown kid, but Shero went against his scouts and took Joe Morrow lol.

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

Same with Saad. He had a good but not great season in the OHL as a late 1992 player, Noesen and Puempel, who you criticise, had better seasons and were a couple of months younger. There was no reason to assume that Saad would end up being the much better player.

I know with Noesens case, once he was traded to Anaheim he was a real promising talent. Injuries did him in though and he eventually had a ‘resurgence’ in his career as a decent middle six player.

Always rooted for him

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

It was not considered a hall of fame type of draft. Lots of projects were in that draft

Yeah, the top talent was considerably lacking and I believe it was mentioned at the time. Schiefele in particular was a "huh" moment which turned out very well.

 

[Golden_Jet]

The start of 2nd round- first ten players on theblist wasnt even NHL caliber! but had Edumdson, Kuvherov, Saad etc. far below. Such a super poor draft. What were Ottawa, Chicago and Toronto (Burke..) thinking??

Yet the oilers took Musil as first puck in second round, what were they thinking.

 

[archangel2]

When i look back at drafts, There is four drafts that stads out, 1996 - probably the worst draft ever, not even half the players in that 1st round sticked at NHL! 1999 - After the Sedins there where almost nothing. And 2011 and 2012 - top 4 where all close to busts or major dissapointments.

That 2011 draft had no real superstar, maybe Huberdeau and Zibanejad If they waited a year with that draft. Ryan Strome at 5? Even at the draft it was way to high, I will never understand.

Duncan Siemens at 11, MarkMcNeil at 18 while there was obvoius bryter choices even at that time. And between 21 - 25 Ottawa and Toronto went dumb mode; Already at 21 ; Stephan Noesen, the roof is/was a 3rd liner -worthy of a 1st round? 22 Tyler Biggs ECHL level of a player even at the draft23 Joe Morrow - just didnt cut it I guess? 24 Matt Puempel - slowest player in the league? What was his assets really? 25 Stuart Percy - a big guy Who wasnt physichal.

and a lot of players that took an eternity to make a name of themselfs in the league;. Strangest case is JT Miller Who went from mediocre trade dump to a 100 pt player!!!
The start of 2nd round- first ten players on theblist wasnt even NHL caliber! but had Edumdson, Kuvherov, Saad etc. far below. Such a super poor draft. What where Ottawa, Chicago and Toronto (Burke..) thinking?? Adam Clemming ahead of Edmundson is some strange drafting I must say.
Is scouts still in the narriative that offensiven Dmens always will be better Dmens?

There was a reason Nuge was ranked 1st on many lists. This is one of those drafts that was considered a development drafts. Going into the draft the top 3 were somewhat interchangeable

 

[Leafshater67]

I still have Night terrors over that Tyler Biggs pick. It made no sense at the time and is even dumber now.

 

[HisIceness]

I remember NHL.com had a couple of live chats leading up to draft day with some beat writers and the consensus seemed to be that 2011 was going to be what 2012 turned into. Supposedly a good number of teams during the 2010-11 season decided to use their scouting sessions to get a jump to 2012 because they thought 2011 wouldn't amount to much. Probably not the first time that's happened but several of these beat writers aluded that scouts just weren't excited for the 2011 draft and thought 2012 would be better.

As it turns out, while not generational, 2011 wasn't as bad as first thought.

 

[Just Linda]

I think that thing, this draft was a projectdraft, with the real superstar - Kucherov considered a risk cause KHL bound, snd hardly could speak english... what an epic GM fail to not draft him as a chancepick.

Landeskog was no1 christmastime.
Coutorier was considered a solidplayer, but without any flashy or finesse plays. No superstar by any means asa no1 should be as a narriative, and my guess that effected him from being a no1 candidate.

Larsson and Coutorier was early developed physically, and probably therefor they was ahead at the pre- draftyears.

Actual potential talentwise at that time, the top should been Kuch, Landeskog, Huberdeau, Nuge, Zibnejad, Schefiele, Coutorier, Hamilton - had size, skating and talent dont know why he fall to 9?? , Brodin, Klefbom.

Yes, Larsson not rven a top 10 pick. He had size and a breakout pass.

Larsson was a great prospect. NJD screwed him developmentally.

If he was put into the AHL and left to develop, he'd have become a top pairing dman.

 

[bert]

When i look back at drafts, There is four drafts that stads out, 1996 - probably the worst draft ever, not even half the players in that 1st round sticked at NHL! 1999 - After the Sedins there where almost nothing. And 2011 and 2012 - top 4 where all close to busts or major dissapointments.

That 2011 draft had no real superstar, maybe Huberdeau and Zibanejad If they waited a year with that draft. Ryan Strome at 5? Even at the draft it was way to high, I will never understand.

Duncan Siemens at 11, MarkMcNeil at 18 while there was obvoius bryter choices even at that time. And between 21 - 25 Ottawa and Toronto went dumb mode; Already at 21 ; Stephan Noesen, the roof is/was a 3rd liner -worthy of a 1st round? 22 Tyler Biggs ECHL level of a player even at the draft23 Joe Morrow - just didnt cut it I guess? 24 Matt Puempel - slowest player in the league? What was his assets really? 25 Stuart Percy - a big guy Who wasnt physichal.

and a lot of players that took an eternity to make a name of themselfs in the league;. Strangest case is JT Miller Who went from mediocre trade dump to a 100 pt player!!!
The start of 2nd round- first ten players on theblist wasnt even NHL caliber! but had Edumdson, Kuvherov, Saad etc. far below. Such a super poor draft. What where Ottawa, Chicago and Toronto (Burke..) thinking?? Adam Clemming ahead of Edmundson is some strange drafting I must say.
Is scouts still in the narriative that offensiven Dmens always will be better Dmens?

Strange breakdown. Noesen at that draft position is statistically a good selection based on his NHL games played and production. Why you're lumping him in with Biggs is nonsense..

 

[HolyGhost]

taking a look at who was drafted and where? It was what is called a Raw talent Draft. Meaning teams that were/are better at development won. Teams that had no idea how to develop players sucked

 

[ManofSteel55]

Yet the oilers took Musil as first puck in second round, what were they thinking.

Whenever anyone is drafted with NHL pedigree, I think to myself, "I hope this kid isn't a David Musil".

 

[Stephen]

I think that thing, this draft was a projectdraft, with the real superstar - Kucherov considered a risk cause KHL bound, snd hardly could speak english... what an epic GM fail to not draft him as a chancepick.

Landeskog was no1 christmastime.
Coutorier was considered a solidplayer, but without any flashy or finesse plays. No superstar by any means asa no1 should be as a narriative, and my guess that effected him from being a no1 candidate.

Larsson and Coutorier was early developed physically, and probably therefor they was ahead at the pre- draftyears.

Actual potential talentwise at that time, the top should been Kuch, Landeskog, Huberdeau, Nuge, Zibnejad, Schefiele, Coutorier, Hamilton - had size, skating and talent dont know why he fall to 9?? , Brodin, Klefbom.

Yes, Larsson not rven a top 10 pick. He had size and a breakout pass.

I don’t even remember Kucherov having that much attention in the lead up to the 2011 draft. Which is extra odd because Nail Yakupov was a Russian prospect in the OHL and receiving top billing for 2012. So it wasn’t like there was some hockey Cold War to work around during that time.

 

[Brodeur]

Late to the thread, but maybe in general the term "first rounder" can be used to imply an upside that really isn't there. In a lot of drafts, the back half of the first round might only produce guys who are useful depth players rather than PP1 type players.

1996 was particularly the odd duck in the time that I've been following the draft since scouts were very pessimistic leading up to it. Chris Phillips was the consensus #1, but the feeling was that he'd be in the #5-10 range in an average draft year.

1999 had the usual amount of optimism but guys like Brendl, Beech, Pyatt, Lundmark didn't pan out. Injuries also altered the trajectory for guys like Stefan/Finley/Shvidki/Cereda very early on.

I don't have a copy handy, but I remember a passage from "Future Greats and Heartbreaks" that went something to the effect that Columbus' scouts only had an "A" grade on 6 or 7 guys in 2006 and that was typical in most years. 2003 was notable where there might have been 15 guys with "A" grades.

I went to the 2011 Draft and we snuck into the players section, so I ended up being maybe 15 feet away from Brandon Saad. One of his cousins chatted us up towards the end and we were trying to pick out an optimal landing spot. I remember blurting out Chicago at #26 would be pretty good; They'd draft Philip Danault and I was unknowingly sitting with his family. As I remember it, there were rumblings that Saad interviewed poorly but he was still #22 on Bob McKenzie's final ranking/survey.

I wasn't a big Adam Clendening guy that year from what I had seen at BU. Defensively he reminded me of when Jamie Langenbrunner would play the point on the Devils PP. But Clendening was a known commodity as they touted the 2010 NTDP blue line as perhaps the deepest that they ever had. Ironically most of them would disappoint as pros aside from Justin Faulk (Forbort-Merrill-Tinordi-Johns).

I vaguely recall not liking Duncan Siemens as much that year, but he did put up 43 points so the thought was that he could provide some secondary offense. But yeah, his calling card was supposed to be his defense.

As I remember it, Brian Burke's personal pick was actually Stuart Percy and not Tyler Biggs (insert truculence joke here) who Toronto's scouts wanted. It's kinda ironic as Detroit was apparently aiming to take Biggs at #24 and they were still considered the gold standard for drafting at the time. Burke bragged about personally scouting Percy, although I couldn't help but wonder if that was just a matter of proximity as Percy played for the nearest OHL club.

Edit: Had my memory jogged a bit, when I was talking to Saad's cousin, I pointed out that Saad could end up with his de facto hometown Penguins at pick #23. His cousin said something like "Nah, he doesn't want to go there." But I forget if he specified a particular reason.

 

[TheYardMachine]

I don’t even remember Kucherov having that much attention in the lead up to the 2011 draft. Which is extra odd because Nail Yakupov was a Russian prospect in the OHL and receiving top billing for 2012. So it wasn’t like there was some hockey Cold War to work around during that time.

Yeah its an odd story for Kucherov!
In his D+1 he was playing for the Quebec Remparts in the Q and they had 3 euro player which were Grigorenko, Sorensen and Kucherov.

They finally decided to send away Kucherov to Rouyn-Noranda to keep the 2 others. He then had a major breakthrough collecting almost 2PPG for the whole season and then stepped in the AHL the year after.

In hindsight it was a terrible move for the Remparts!

 

[WarriorOfGandhi]

the Avalanche took Siemens at #11 because he was the defense partner of their 2009 2nd round pick Stefan Elliott. Back then a) Elliott hadn't been leapfrogged by Tyson Barrie as the offensive defenseman of the future, b) big, stay at home types were still highly valued, and c) the Avs had a glut of smaller puck moving defenders (aforementioned Elliott & Barrie plus John-Michael Liles, Kevin Shattenkirk, Kyle Quincey, Matt Hunwick, & Kyle Cumiskey) and only really had one or two defensemen with any snarl on the roster -- Erik Johnson was brought in but Adam Foote retired that season, Scott Hannan was traded to Washington for Tomas Fleichmann, and Ryan O'Byrne was the softest 6'5 235lb player in NHL history.

a former Avs poster named Renegade Styles ran a WHL blog and iirc he was actually hired as a scout by a WHL team. He was over the moon about the Siemens pick. A lot of Avs fans were as well, myself included, although I have watched exactly 0 WHL games in my life. Back then it looked like a future defensive unit of EJ, Siemens & Elliott, and 2008 2nd round pick Cameron Gaunce would lead the Avalanche to glory. With a decade and change of hindsight, the Siemens pick was one of many high draft choices the Avalanche absolutely whiffed on in the ugly years between Joe Sakic retiring and Nathan MacKinnon emerging as a superstar. Of course, if they had gotten a spoonful of actual NHL talent instead of taking guys like Siemens, Joey Hishon, Connor Bleakley, Tyson Jost, Martin Kaut, Mitchell Heard, Chris Bigras, etc. then they wouldn't have been bad enough to land Landeskog, MacKinnon, Rantanen, and Makar.

 

[Ceremony]

the Avalanche took Siemens at #11 because he was the defense partner of their 2009 2nd round pick Stefan Elliott. Back then a) Elliott hadn't been leapfrogged by Tyson Barrie as the offensive defenseman of the future, b) big, stay at home types were still highly valued, and c) the Avs had a glut of smaller puck moving defenders (aforementioned Elliott & Barrie plus John-Michael Liles, Kevin Shattenkirk, Kyle Quincey, Matt Hunwick, & Kyle Cumiskey) and only really had one or two defensemen with any snarl on the roster -- Erik Johnson was brought in but Adam Foote retired that season, Scott Hannan was traded to Washington for Tomas Fleichmann, and Ryan O'Byrne was the softest 6'5 235lb player in NHL history.

a former Avs poster named Renegade Styles ran a WHL blog and iirc he was actually hired as a scout by a WHL team. He was over the moon about the Siemens pick. A lot of Avs fans were as well, myself included, although I have watched exactly 0 WHL games in my life. Back then it looked like a future defensive unit of EJ, Siemens & Elliott, and 2008 2nd round pick Cameron Gaunce would lead the Avalanche to glory. With a decade and change of hindsight, the Siemens pick was one of many high draft choices the Avalanche absolutely whiffed on in the ugly years between Joe Sakic retiring and Nathan MacKinnon emerging as a superstar. Of course, if they had gotten a spoonful of actual NHL talent instead of taking guys like Siemens, Joey Hishon, Connor Bleakley, Tyson Jost, Martin Kaut, Mitchell Heard, Chris Bigras, etc. then they wouldn't have been bad enough to land Landeskog, MacKinnon, Rantanen, and Makar.

Shattenkirk was traded for EJ before the 2011 draft. Also since we already drafted Landeskog at #2 we probably thought we could take a punt on another 1st rounder.

RS ended up working for the Hurricanes, the last I saw before he deleted his twitter account.