The Virtues of Development vs. Winning in the AHL (Read OP)

[PM]

It's quite possible I missed someone, but I believe that every non-NHLer first round pick from the past two drafts suited up for their AHL team this season if it was a possibility. Save McCann that is.

Anyways. Here's some good insight from Kyle Dubas regarding how the Maple Leafs see this topic.



http://mapleleafshotstove.com/2015/06/08/kyle-dubas-on-leafs-lunch/

I can't believe I'm saying this.. but I agree with the Maple Leafs. That Kyle Dubas sure seems like a smart fellow. Maybe we can poach him with a promotion over Elmer Fudd.

 

[Jyrki21]

It's a sad day indeed when the Leafs are taking a rational approach to the game, and we have guys running the team who are acting like no new knowledge in sports has arisen in 30 years.

 

[KDizzle]

It's a sad day indeed when the Leafs are taking a rational approach to the game, and we have guys running the team who are acting like no new knowledge in sports has arisen in 30 years.

To think just 5 years ago we were considered cutting edge. Instead Aquilini decides to send us back to the stone age. We'll probably start using sticks made of wood soon. Nothing says meat and potatoes like wooden sticks.

 

[MS]

It's a sad day indeed when the Leafs are taking a rational approach to the game, and we have guys running the team who are acting like no new knowledge in sports has arisen in 30 years.

To think just 5 years ago we were considered cutting edge. Instead Aquilini decides to send us back to the stone age. We'll probably start using sticks made of wood soon. Nothing says meat and potatoes like wooden sticks.

It really is beyond depressing.

We've gone from being the most cutting-edge team in the league to 'derp, he's good in scrums'.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

To think just 5 years ago we were considered cutting edge. Instead Aquilini decides to send us back to the stone age. We'll probably start using sticks made of wood soon. Nothing says meat and potatoes like wooden sticks.

Too bad that "cutting edge" didn't produce good draft results or an extended playoff window.

 

[vancityluongo]

Too bad that "cutting edge" didn't produce good draft results or an extended playoff window.

Division titles in 6 out of 7 years is a pretty extended playoff window. Maybe you should look at what other teams did during that time frame...

 

[absolute garbage]

I'm guessing the Canucks were right at the top of the league during Gillis' years here (all seasons combined). With the 10/11 season as the highmark, absolutely dominating season (wasn't it the best season a team has had since early 90s or something?) that didn't end in a SC only because the team was crushed by injuries.

Sure there were mistakes but in the big picture it was the best period of time for this franchise in terms of results.

Everything you heard from the management made you believe in what they do. Whether it was wacky sleep doctors or travel management, but you got the sense they are looking at everything possible to stay ahead and get an advantage. Now you have an idiot rambling about giveaway stats, meat & potatoes, scrums and turning unqualified WHL players into NHL players.

 

[Domecile]

Division titles in 6 out of 7 years is a pretty extended playoff window. Maybe you should look at what other teams did during that time frame...

Let's be real. It would've be a complete disaster if the Canucks with the team they had relative to the divisional competition didn't win the Northwest.

 

[DL44]

It's quite possible I missed someone, but I believe that every non-NHLer first round pick from the past two drafts suited up for their AHL team this season if it was a possibility. Save McCann that is.

Anyways. Here's some good insight from Kyle Dubas regarding how the Maple Leafs see this topic.

http://mapleleafshotstove.com/2015/06/08/kyle-dubas-on-leafs-lunch/

I can't believe I'm saying this.. but I agree with the Maple Leafs. That Kyle Dubas sure seems like a smart fellow. Maybe we can poach him with a promotion over Elmer Fudd.

It's a sad day indeed when the Leafs are taking a rational approach to the game, and we have guys running the team who are acting like no new knowledge in sports has arisen in 30 years.

Come on... that doesn't wreak at all of de-pressurize expectations of winning throughout the organization for a massive fanbase that hinges on all things Leaf for you?

Leafs are rebuilding... The whole company line from Dubas and Shanahan and Babcock down is that it will take time and they are a couple yrs away. Why would he ever state anything in line with tying evaluation and development of players to winning when they'll be doing anything but for a few yrs.. Of course he's gonna say what he said.

This fall it will be... It's not about the Leafs making the playoffs this season... its about transitioning and setting up the right work ethic and working environment, getting systems in place and players developing into their roles... blah blah.

 

[Jyrki21]

Leafs are rebuilding... The whole company line from Dubas and Shanahan and Babcock down is that it will take time and they are a couple yrs away. Why would he ever state anything in line with tying evaluation and development of players to winning when they'll be doing anything but for a few yrs.. Of course he's gonna say what he said.

This fall it will be... It's not about the Leafs making the playoffs this season... its about transitioning and setting up the right work ethic and working environment, getting systems in place and players developing into their roles... blah blah.

He's talking about the Marlies. There's no reason to think the Marlies will be particularly bad during the Leafs' rebuild.

 

[Ho Borvat]

I can't believe I'm saying this.. but I agree with the Maple Leafs. That Kyle Dubas sure seems like a smart fellow. Maybe we can poach him with a promotion over Elmer Fudd.

It's a sad day indeed when the Leafs are taking a rational approach to the game, and we have guys running the team who are acting like no new knowledge in sports has arisen in 30 years.

I've followed both teams closely over the last 5 years, and their management groups are going in two different directions... Benning just feels like Nonis 2.0.

Really like the Leafs management group atm.

 

[DL44]

I've followed both teams closely over the last 5 years, and their management groups are going in two different directions... Benning just feels like Nonis 2.0.

Really like the Leafs management group atm.

What direction have the Leafs management group actually moved in for you to even compare the two?

Benning feels like Nonis 2.0 for you but for the last 5 yrs the Leafs up until a few weeks ago were under Nonis 1.0.

Shanny and Dubas came on a yr ago. They fired Carlyle halfway thru the season... fired Nonis a few weeks ago.. hired Babcock a few weeks ago..

Can't see what you are basing the direction of Leafs on other than Babcock and press conferences.

At least wait until they make a transaction or two to determine actual direction.

 

[Ho Borvat]

What direction have the Leafs management group actually moved in for you to even compare the two?

Benning feels like Nonis 2.0 for you but for the last 5 yrs the Leafs up until a few weeks ago were under Nonis 1.0.

Shanny and Dubas came on a yr ago. They fired Carlyle halfway thru the season... fired Nonis a few weeks ago.. hired Babcock a few weeks ago..

Can't see what you are basing the direction of Leafs on other than Babcock and press conferences.

At least wait until they make a transaction or two to determine actual direction.

I really like the Dubas hiring to start, and then cleaning house was needed. A few different interviews with Shanahan/Dubas it seems like they are committed to a traditional rebuild and I see them as a forward thinking management group whos going to build through the draft (similar to Tampa).

 

[a Fool]

I've followed both teams closely over the last 5 years, and their management groups are going in two different directions... Benning just feels like Nonis 2.0.

This is how I feel as well. Lots of similarities IMO. Dumping good players for no reason Garrison/Grabovski, letting good value players walk MacArthur/Santorelli, and signing boat anchors because of intangibles Clarkson/Dorsett.

 

[Wilch]

It really is beyond depressing.

We've gone from being the most cutting-edge team in the league to 'derp, he's good in scrums'.

Now the only thing we can hope for is that Benning continues to pillage this team, and does so quickly so we can snap up someone like Dubas before he's promoted to GM or poached by another team.

Knowing our luck, we probably have another Jon Cooper situation at hand where we miss a good hiring by one season.

 

[Jyrki21]

Knowing our luck, we probably have another Jon Cooper situation at hand where we miss a good hiring by one season.

I think we used up our one karma chip when we "won" the Willie Desjardins sweepstakes last year.

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

Cant believe the Monarchs are wasting their time putting that Kempe guy in the lineup. Should've sent him home to properly develop him.

 

[van22]

Cant believe the Monarchs are wasting their time putting that Kempe guy in the lineup. Should've sent him home to properly develop him.

He has two years pro-experience in the SHL including post-season. He played most of the year in the top-6 besides Nylander.

I kind of expect players like Kempe, Nylander, Kapanen, Fiala, Pastrnak, Vrana and others coming from the SHL or Liiga to make more of an impact in the AHL than a player from juniors. Just compare their performance to Virtanen. Pastrnak for example spent a large part of the season with the Bruins and he didn't even come from the top pro-league (SHL) but from the 2nd tier one (Allsvenskan).

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

He has two years pro-experience in the SHL including post-season. He played most of the year in the top-6 besides Nylander.

I kind of expect players like Kempe, Nylander, Kapanen, Fiala, Pastrnak, Vrana and others coming from the SHL or Liiga to make more of an impact in the AHL than a player from juniors. Just compare their performance to Virtanen. Pastrnak for example spent a large part of the season with the Bruins and he didn't even come from the top pro-league (SHL) but from the 2nd tier one (Allsvenskan).

He's only 18 years old, no need to rush him. The team should be loyal to the guys that got them there, not some 18 year old first round prospect who wouldn't even be eligible for the AHL if he played in the CHL. Recent first round picks don't benefit from playing in the AHL playoffs.

 

[van22]

He's only 18 years old, no need to rush him. The team should be loyal to the guys that got them there, not some 18 year old first round prospect who wouldn't even be eligible for the AHL if he played in the CHL. Recent first round picks don't benefit from playing in the AHL playoffs.

But he doesn't come from juniors but from a top professional league. Don't you think it's a different level to play in a pro-league with and against men who earn a living playing hockey (as opposed to playing against juniors who might or might not make a career out of hockey). So why wouldn't they play him? In the play-offs it's about winning and he has the necessary experience to make an impact and in fact he is. He even looks more poised than some of the older players who have spent the year in the AHL.

 

[WTG]

Recent first round picks don't benefit from playing in the AHL playoffs.

wut?

 

[Samzilla]

wut?

sarcasm cause we're not playing mccann or hutton

 

[vanuck]

He has two years pro-experience in the SHL including post-season. He played most of the year in the top-6 besides Nylander.

I kind of expect players like Kempe, Nylander, Kapanen, Fiala, Pastrnak, Vrana and others coming from the SHL or Liiga to make more of an impact in the AHL than a player from juniors. Just compare their performance to Virtanen. Pastrnak for example spent a large part of the season with the Bruins and he didn't even come from the top pro-league (SHL) but from the 2nd tier one (Allsvenskan).

Cody Hodgson didn't have pro experience when he joined the Moose either.

 

[Proto]

At least the Canucks management group was smart enough to send away their promising prospects before the final. I think they knew they were in tough against a superior Manchester squad and were concerned their prospects might soak up the losing atmosphere.

Perfectly timed to move them out when they'd soaked up maximum atmosphere.

 

[Hollywood Burrows]

At least the Canucks management group was smart enough to send away their promising prospects before the final. I think they knew they were in tough against a superior Manchester squad and were concerned their prospects might soak up the losing atmosphere.

Perfectly timed to move them out when they'd soaked up maximum atmosphere.

It's true, Benning and his team have done a masterful job of making sure our prospects soak up the right atmosphere at the right time. Have to give Jimbo an A+ on the atmosphere.

I'm concerned about scrums, though. I'm not sure McCann got a chance to practice scrums when he was with the Comets, and the lack of game action certainly didn't get him any exposure to AHL-level scrums. Now Jake Virtanen, there's no worry there-- the kid has got all the tools to be an absolute Sbisa in scrums at the NHL level. But McCann's scrum game has been a question mark since he was drafted. I know Bennings puts a lot of emphasis on scrum ability, so let's hope McCann can make a big jump with some off-season training.