The Vet vs. Prospect theory

[Rzombo4 prez]

He was on the ice against Bedard's line a lot. Bertuzzi, Bedard, Hall, Foligno, Nazer, Teravainen. They aren't exactly all stars but it's really disingenuous to say he was up against AHL competition.

Better than Compher now? Probably not. Better than Copp? I'd say a fair bit. Better skater, better passer, better stickhandler, better shot, way more physical. Copp is better on faceoffs. I think Kasper could at the minimum match Copp's production from last year with similar icetime while tilting the ice more in the right direction.

Fair, but it is still pre-season hockey being played at pre-season intensity by many vets. I like you are a big Kasper supporter. I am not, however, going to go planting flags after one pre-season game.

 

[SantosHalper]

I see more positive sides when the kids start and play in AHL until they are really ready.

First thing is that pre-season camp can be deceiving, many veterans are still shaking off the summer rust and since their jobs are secured, i don't believe that are playing like their lives depend on it. After all pre-season games are meaningless to them, they ain't looking to get hurt right before the season starts. And the other teams are playing their kids and AHL depth as well, some of those kids are still far away from NHL, so naturally our more NHL ready kids will look a whole lot better.

Pre-season camp is also quite short and 19-21 year tend to gas out after the mid point of the regular season, and that's not really good when we are hunting for a playoff spot. Quite a big risk to throw in 3-4 rookies and if/when most of them gets gassed out, who's gonna replace them? AHL depth, guys on waivers or are we going to need spent assets to acquire players? Or are we just going to call it quits and better luck next season?

Second thing is depth, injuries happen every season and who's going to replace them? AHL depth? Kids who ain't ready? Or 4th liners? It is better to start the NHL ready kids in AHL, let them build confidence and when the injuries happen, then they get called up. And when that happens, then we'll see if they are really ready. Intensity will be on the whole other level during the regular season than in the pre-season. AHL veterans stays down to help the AHL team win.

If all the NHL ready kids would be up and the injury wave happens, then the AHL vets would get called up. And that would leave the poorer AHL players and bunch of ECHL players with 20-year old rookies leading the AHL team. Then both teams would be losing, since we all know that career AHL players ain't a long term solution in NHL.

Third thing is responsibility, in AHL the most NHL ready kids will play in a big role. Top-6 on 5on5, PP1/PP2, PK1/PK2, first OT units. There they are leading the team, carrying the responsibility of their teams success. There they are not complement pieces on smaller minutes.

I like the approach what Wings have, prospects are given all the necessary time and they really have to work their way in. Some top prospects has never had to work that hard before, because they have been so talented. Their natural talent has carried them this far, so some of them haven't been really challenged before.
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But answer to the OP question.

For AlJo, since he is up, it's all up to him now. I don't see him having problems to out play Määttä and Holl. I think Gustafsson has a different role so AlJo is not really competing against him.

Motte is a 4th liner and PK-specialist, i see Mazur having much bigger potential than just a 4th liner and PK-specialist. Mazur should most definitely start in GR. Big role there 1st line, PP1, PK1/2.

 

[Gniwder]

Copp was one of our worst forwards last season. 3rd or 4th worst amongst the regular forwards from last year. Was the boat anchor on his shutdown line with Fischer and Rasmussen where plays died on his stick in the offensive zone. Copp has turned into Frans f***ing Nielsen 3 years ahead of schedule.

Finished the season with 9 points his final 30 games. Kasper was getting warmed up in his final 30.
Andrew Copp 2023-24 Splits | Hockey-Reference.com

If Kasper could not match 33 points in 79 , 15 minutes a night in the NHL then yeah, total waste of an 8th overall pick. I think Kasper could match or exceed that. And not based off a single preseason game. Based off watching most of his career for the last 3 seasons.

Did Copp's mom quit HFBoards? It's OK to post negative comments about him now?

 

[SirKillalot]

I think Vet vs Prospect depends on #1 is the prospect ready for NHL ice time and #2 their potential deployment.

If you say line 1 gets 20ish minutes a night and you have 40 to spread over the bottom 3. Are we talking lines 2/3 getting 15ish and the 4th getting 10 or less.

If a kid is getting less than 10 min a night at the NHL level but closer to 20 at the AHL level and is someone your project as having offensive upside then I think it benefits them to stay down.

If a kid will get closer to 15 a night on average and be put in at least some offensive situations then I think its more beneficial to have them stay up.

Agree with much of this.
My issue is the whole "earn the spot" thing. Cause its so inconsistently used where some get things easy and some have to be put through the whole ringer and forced into roles they aren't expected to be successful in.

If a player is projected to be a top six forward, don't stuff them in checking dump and chase never have the puck lines. If they project to be a checking line forward, don't by all forced options put them on the top line to crash and bang.

The whole "earn it" is somewhat bullshit to me. Put a player in a role he is expected to have some success in and build him out from there. Personally I don't think we should have two scoring lines and one checking line and one shut down line. I think one should strive to have one top scoring line, one top six line who have possibilities to get put in 1st line duties, and could play 3rd line mixed duties, one third line who are good two-way forwards with top six potential and one checking line with 3rd line potential.

Meaning 1st line scoring line
Two middle lines who's goal is to be scoring lines, but can defend and good two-way players / young guys with top six aspirations should be put into these lines.
A 4th line with rough players to bring defence and to a degree pain in the ass play.

Meaning aspire to have a top 9 who's looking to score goals more so than just having that 3rd line to just defend. Whenever Detroit been successful that is what we have had.

 

[Pavels Dog]

People may not want to admit it because he's a stinky vet but Motte has looked great so far.

Meaning aspire to have a top 9 who's looking to score goals more so than just having that 3rd line to just defend. Whenever Detroit been successful that is what we have had.

We had 10 forwards with 30+ points last season. 7 with 40+ points. Some of the best depth in the league. In no reality did we build our forward group last season just to defend, on any line.