The state of the Habs Rebuild - The Next step

[MD thaivuN]

That is one very optimistic forecast for Mailloux's future development. I suggest that you watch some of the tapes of Mailloux's play in Laval this year. Better than Petry? I just hope he improves enough to be a bona fide NHL level defenceman. I have my severe doubts in this regard.

my projection of Mailloux is more Ben Chiarot with offense. On the defensive side, i think he's gonna have to be a fake reliable defensive player like Chiarot was/is.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Either you foresee Hage as a 50-goal scorer, since you predict he'll be as good or better than Caufield, or you see Caufield regressing enough to allow Hage to take his spot.

Neither. I was talking about overall play, not saying they'll be similar players. As mich should be obvious. Nothing to do with scoring 50 goals or Caufield regressing. Stop the strawmen.

Why will I be miserable in January?

SInce November, we lossed against the Jets, Bruins, Knights, Wild, Rangers, Devils and Capitals and our games after boxing day will be almost just these type of teams. A lot of fans are being overcomed by a mirage of winning against Columbus and Anaheim type-teams, you included.

Seriously, go look at the schedule.

 

[LaP]

Just a friendly reminder that development is not linear.

Avs 2016-2017

Finished dead last in the league 21 points away from the 2nd last position. That was a regression from the previous year where they finished 21st. The following year they made the playoffs with the same team and coach.

Canucks 2020-21

Finished last in the Canadian division. 24th in the league. They reached the stanley cup semi-final the previous year with the same coach and same team. Their current core was pretty much all there with Petterson, Hughes, Miller, Boeser, ....

====

There will be bumps in the road and that will not mean the rebuild failed.

 

[sampollock]

He was flying at the end of last season and even in pre-season this year (some poster were even saying he looked faster). He's just not moving his feets constantly this year.

Like there is so many who think Evans is a fast skater, but his top speed is actually under league average. But Evans move his feets all the time.

another chat with KH is due

 

[habbubba]

Why will I be miserable in January?

Montreal during January is always miserable! Cold,snowy,Christmas bills coming in faster than the flu going around.lol

 

[sampollock]

Montreal during January is always miserable! Cold,snowy,Christmas bills coming in faster than the flu going around.lol

started for me nov 10
tons of snow
then -25
and long way to go to april 2026
and long way to my playoffs for the habs 2026 NHL Draft for a top 3 pick

 

[habbubba]

started for me nov 10
tons of snow
then -25
and long way to go to april 2026
and long way to my playoffs for the habs 2026 NHL Draft for a top 3 pick

-25? Here in the Montreal area it has hardly been below 0 and almost no snowfall. Good luck and hang in there! of course what usually hangs is probably all tucked up now right? lol

 

[waitin425]

I wouldn't pencil Laine into any future top-6, there are a number of reasons he might not be around by the time someone like Hage is ready to be a top-6 C.

It also seems very doubtful that Dach will be 3rd line C. Either he will get back to his earlier form and be a top-6 C/W or he will get traded/not signed. Newhook is in a similar situation but has an extra year.

Probably greater probability Laine remains in our top 6 than Hage hits that.

If Dach plays himself out of our top 6...why is it a foregone conclusion he is traded? he doesn't cost much. the only risk is he sees opportunity elsewhere. otherwise why not resign him to play third line?

 

[Lshap]

Neither. I was talking about overall play, not saying they'll be similar players. As mich should be obvious. Nothing to do with scoring 50 goals or Caufield regressing. Stop the strawmen.

What a BS answer. You said Hage will be "As good or better" than our primary goal-scorer. So as part of his superior "Overall play", does Hage outscore Caufield? Does he come close – say, 30 goals – while being much better defensively?

You made a bold statement. What combination of offence and defence do you foresee Hage bringing that will make him better than Caufield?

SInce November, we lossed against the Jets, Bruins, Knights, Wild, Rangers, Devils and Capitals and our games after boxing day will be almost just these type of teams. A lot of fans are being overcomed by a mirage of winning against Columbus and Anaheim type-teams, you included.

Seriously, go look at the schedule.

The wins against Columbus and Anaheim weren't mirages. The Habs won. Everyone knows the schedule becomes harder in January, and we all know our record will reflect that.

As long as the team builds on their wins and learns from their losses, I'm good. You seem to be fishing for other motives and reactions, however there are none.

 

[Lshap]

Montreal during January is always miserable! Cold,snowy,Christmas bills coming in faster than the flu going around.lol

Finally – a reasonable answer!

 

[Sorinth]

Probably greater probability Laine remains in our top 6 than Hage hits that.

If Dach plays himself out of our top 6...why is it a foregone conclusion he is traded? he doesn't cost much. the only risk is he sees opportunity elsewhere. otherwise why not resign him to play third line?

I'm not sure I would even put the odds at 50/50 that Laine stays past his current deal. There are reasons to believe he would but there's also a lot of reasons he/we wouldn't do it.

As for Dach, right now he's not even playing good enough to be 3C, on top of which he's not going to want to take a paycut which means he probably only signs his 1 year QO after which he's a UFA. We also have players who are likely more suited for the 3rd line in Kapanen and Beck since they should be able to provide quality D, which is Dach's biggest weakness.

 

[Scriptor]

I'm cautiously excited. Demidov looks like another level of player. Hage, Beck, Reinbacher... realistically, they'll become solid roster players, if not stars.

That's why I'm hung up on our current roster's progress. Aside from Demidov, our top players may already be on the team. Suzuki, Caufield, Slaf, Laine, Dach – that was supposed to be the backbone of our offence. If they're playing well, we're shooting and scoring more.

Hutson and Guhle are two pillars of our core D. If they're playing well, we're reducing defensive zone time and goals against.

Since November 10, Habs are 7-5-1. That's what we want to see – progress from our young, future core. That's the team we want Demidov and the other kids to join – one that's trending

That is one very optimistic forecast for Mailloux's future development. I suggest that you watch some of the tapes of Mailloux's play in Laval this year. Better than Petry? I just hope he improves enough to be a bona fide NHL level defenceman. I have my severe doubts in this regard.

Petry was a late bloomer, if I recall correctly. Mailloux is still only 21. I highly doubt his fundamentals are as weak as you seem to think that they are. He is not as bonehead awful as Barron seems to be, for example. While it is true that some hockey players, even though they produce well at the AHL level, plateau at that level and never see that production level mirrored at the NHL level, I doubt that Mailloux will not become a bonafide NHL player. He may not become more than a 3rd pairing D with gusts of PP potential, at the low end of the spectrum, but he could also become a productive second pairing RHD with the right complementary pairing partner.

 

[Scriptor]

I'm not sure I would even put the odds at 50/50 that Laine stays past his current deal. There are reasons to believe he would but there's also a lot of reasons he/we wouldn't do it.

As for Dach, right now he's not even playing good enough to be 3C, on top of which he's not going to want to take a paycut which means he probably only signs his 1 year QO after which he's a UFA. We also have players who are likely more suited for the 3rd line in Kapanen and Beck since they should be able to provide quality D, which is Dach's biggest weakness.

If Dach cannot return to his flashes of dominance before the last injury he suffered, his role lower in the lineup won't be nearly as useful, IMO, especially at C.

Beck definitely projects as a more solid shutdown 3rd line C, or an elite 4th line C, barring that.

Kapanen and Hage both project with a floor as a productive 3rd line C. Which would be better is hard to determine right now, but, barring them reaching their ceilings, a good 3rd line C is more easily available both via the trade market and on the UFA front.

If Dach doesn't solidify a claim as the Habs' 2nd line C by next season, the experiment may well not pan out in Montreal, period.

The time frame for Dach is by next year's trade deadline -- latest -- IMO. Habs can be extremely patient, as long as their are signs of a continued progression because the team might not even be contending for a playoff spot by then and any potential suitors for the second line pivot role apart from Dach might not see an NHL shift before next season and could be better off eased into the NHL in a 3rd line role initially.

Newhook, IMO, is not a legitimate 2nd line Center candidate. Nor is Evans, nor anyone else currently in the lineup apart from Dach.

 

[Habs Halifax]

What a BS answer. You said Hage will be "As good or better" than our primary goal-scorer. So as part of his superior "Overall play", does Hage outscore Caufield? Does he come close – say, 30 goals – while being much better defensively?

You made a bold statement. What combination of offence and defence do you foresee Hage bringing that will make him better than Caufield?


The wins against Columbus and Anaheim weren't mirages. The Habs won. Everyone knows the schedule becomes harder in January, and we all know our record will reflect that.

As long as the team builds on their wins and learns from their losses, I'm good. You seem to be fishing for other motives and reactions, however there are none.

A lot of fans in our herd want to nit pick and play hero in terms of how they can call something out before it happens. I honestly think only around 25% of our fan base understands the rebuild headache and most of the fans think we should be a playoff team by now. Rebuilds typically don't work out that way and it's a painful process. Habs will be fine but when they move into the playoffs is a question none of us know the answer too.

Some need to chill and enjoy the ride. This is not going to be a skyrocket up the standings narrative. There will be plenty of ups/down on this rollercoaster ride.

If Dach cannot return to his flashes of dominance before the last injury he suffered, his role lower in the lineup won't be nearly as useful, IMO, especially at C.

Beck definitely projects as a more solid shutdown 3rd line C, or an elite 4th line C, barring that.

Kapanen and Hage both project with a floor as a productive 3rd line C. Which would be better is hard to determine right now, but, barring them reaching their ceilings, a good 3rd line C is more easily available both via the trade market and on the UFA front.

If Dach doesn't solidify a claim as the Habs' 2nd line C by next season, the experiment may well not pan out in Montreal, period.

The time frame for Dach is by next year's trade deadline -- latest -- IMO. Habs can be extremely patient, as long as their are signs of a continued progression because the team might not even be contending for a playoff spot by then and any potential suitors for the second line pivot role apart from Dach might not see an NHL shift before next season and could be better off eased into the NHL in a 3rd line role initially.

Newhook, IMO, is not a legitimate 2nd line Center candidate. Nor is Evans, nor anyone else currently in the lineup apart from Dach.

Dach is not married to be just a center though. He can be used on wing and might be the best spot for him in the end.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

What a BS answer. You said Hage will be "As good or better" than our primary goal-scorer. So as part of his superior "Overall play", does Hage outscore Caufield? Does he come close – say, 30 goals – while being much better defensively?

You made a bold statement. What combination of offence and defence do you foresee Hage bringing that will make him better than Caufield?

Way to move the goalposts for me. I said as good or better, but naturally, you try to strawman your way into an argument by limiting it to "better". That's the actual BS. Hage is a play driver with a quicker footstep and better playmaking ability. I've watched both at the same age and that's my conclusion. How many games of both have you watched in their D+1? You question my conclusion, yet do it from a position where all you see is how Caufield is right now. There's no perspective of how they were at the same point. What he will bring will be different than Caufield. Fact is, his output so far in the NCAA at the same age is a bit better than Caufield in a league that gets better with each passing year, so thinking Hage will be as good or better than Caufield is not a stretch at all. Saying he'll do that doesn't equate "better at goalscoring", so you can lay your lame strawman to rest.

The wins against Columbus and Anaheim weren't mirages. The Habs won. Everyone knows the schedule becomes harder in January, and we all know our record will reflect that.

As long as the team builds on their wins and learns from their losses, I'm good. You seem to be fishing for other motives and reactions, however there are none.

I'd have tasteful words to describe what you just did. It's completely false. I state my opinion, pure and simple and back it up with arguments. I don't troll. Go touch grass.

 

[Bring Bak Damphousse]

A lot of fans in our herd want to nit pick and play hero in terms of how they can call something out before it happens. I honestly think only around 25% of our fan base understands the rebuild headache and most of the fans think we should be a playoff team by now. Rebuilds typically don't work out that way and it's a painful process. Habs will be fine but when they move into the playoffs is a question none of us know the answer too.

Some need to chill and enjoy the ride. This is not going to be a skyrocket up the standings narrative. There will be plenty of ups/down on this rollercoaster ride.



Dach is not married to be just a center though. He can be used on wing and might be the best spot for him in the end.

Nice balanced take, I like the group of players Hughes has drafted/traded for, unlike Beegevin he seems to have a plan, but anyone who thought this was going to be a quick turnaround was fooling themselves, this roster is still loaded with bergevins missteps

 

[Guy Larose]

A lot of fans in our herd want to nit pick and play hero in terms of how they can call something out before it happens. I honestly think only around 25% of our fan base understands the rebuild headache and most of the fans think we should be a playoff team by now. Rebuilds typically don't work out that way and it's a painful process. Habs will be fine but when they move into the playoffs is a question none of us know the answer too.

Some need to chill and enjoy the ride. This is not going to be a skyrocket up the standings narrative. There will be plenty of ups/down on this rollercoaster ride.



Dach is not married to be just a center though. He can be used on wing and might be the best spot for him in the end.

25%? I'd say it's even lower than that. Just look at this board. Some of the same people calling for a tank are lambasting the coaches and players for not having the team win or perform better.

 

[Lshap]

Way to move the goalposts for me. I said as good or better, but naturally, you try to strawman your way into an argument by limiting it to "better". That's the actual BS. Hage is a play driver with a quicker footstep and better playmaking ability. I've watched both at the same age and that's my conclusion. How many games of both have you watched in their D+1? You question my conclusion, yet do it from a position where all you see is how Caufield is right now. There's no perspective of how they were at the same point. What he will bring will be different than Caufield. Fact is, his output so far in the NCAA at the same age is a bit better than Caufield in a league that gets better with each passing year, so thinking Hage will be as good or better than Caufield is not a stretch at all. Saying he'll do that doesn't equate "better at goalscoring, so you can lay your lame strawman to rest.

You made a bold statement. I directly quoted you and asked for clarification. Instead of giving me a straightforward answer, you went off on a spirit journey of imaginary 'goalposts' and 'strawmen'. I'm not interested in following you down whatever rabbit-hole you're in.

However, I will reply to the answer to my original question, which you finally provided somewhere between the... um... sillier parts of your paragraph. I think you're right about Hage's playmaking. The question is how much will his ability translate to the NHL, and why you compared him to, of all players, Caufield. Expecting him to become 'as good or better' than our star winger who's on pace for 40-50 goals is a very high bar and, IMO, unrealistic. Few prospects maintain their relative level when they reach the NHL. So, yes, I'm skeptical that Hage will be as good as you claim. But sure, it's possible. I hope your optimism turns out to be right.

I'd have tasteful words to describe what you just did. It's completely false. I state my opinion, pure and simple and back it up with arguments. I don't troll. Go touch grass.

You said I'd be miserable in January. I asked why. Instead of an answer, I get this convoluted nonsense.

 

[Lshap]

A lot of fans in our herd want to nit pick and play hero in terms of how they can call something out before it happens. I honestly think only around 25% of our fan base understands the rebuild headache and most of the fans think we should be a playoff team by now. Rebuilds typically don't work out that way and it's a painful process. Habs will be fine but when they move into the playoffs is a question none of us know the answer too.

Some need to chill and enjoy the ride. This is not going to be a skyrocket up the standings narrative. There will be plenty of ups/down on this rollercoaster ride.

Yup. Accepting we don't know the answer is stage-1 of the 7 Stages Of Rebuild Grief.

For me, I'm cool taking one step back, as long as it ends with two steps forward. Like everyone, I have my expectations, but over the decades I've learned that, in sports, things never work out the way you imagine.

 

[Murky]

A lot of fans in our herd want to nit pick and play hero in terms of how they can call something out before it happens. I honestly think only around 25% of our fan base understands the rebuild headache and most of the fans think we should be a playoff team by now. Rebuilds typically don't work out that way and it's a painful process. Habs will be fine but when they move into the playoffs is a question none of us know the answer too.

Some need to chill and enjoy the ride. This is not going to be a skyrocket up the standings narrative. There will be plenty of ups/down on this rollercoaster ride.



Dach is not married to be just a center though. He can be used on wing and might be the best spot for him in the end.

Good post. I am just going to sit back and enjoy seeing how this all folds out. For the most part it has been a tire fire for the past 30 years. It shouldn't be too hard to improve on that

 

[Kosseca]

Nice balanced take, I like the group of players Hughes has drafted/traded for, unlike Beegevin he seems to have a plan, but anyone who thought this was going to be a quick turnaround was fooling themselves, this roster is still loaded with bergevins missteps

I would add that every plan is bound to have setbacks. Dach injury for example is raising massive concerns in an area that we all hope was fix : 2C. So patience is key..... big puzzle to put togheter

 

[ReHabs]

Yup. Accepting we don't know the answer is stage-1 of the 7 Stages Of Rebuild Grief.

I've been a big argumentative jerk and will take a step back for the time being but what you say is really what rizzles my butt and makes me fire up my keyboard. I see such definitive statements that imply anyone who disagrees is simply wrong or a bad fan. It drives me nuts.

"Dach will go back to being awesome" -> (1) Dach was never Awesome in the NHL and (2) there is no guarantee he will return to any level. We simply don't know so there's nothing wrong with criticising his play and efforts when talking about the team today. (I'm glad he got the monkey off his back, the game is mental and he needs every advantage he can find and take)

"Hage will be awesome", "Demidov will make us forget all about Michkov", etc. -> Self-explanatory. Sometimes the honest optimism crosses over to emperor's new clothes style groupthink imo.

"Barron/Newhook/etc is still young" -> Implying all players improve all the time. Come on, how many times have we been left holding our peckers with prospects and young(ish) players? Why is it scepticism is so disturbing to some?

For me, I'm cool taking one step back, as long as it ends with two steps forward. Like everyone, I have my expectations, but over the decades I've learned that, in sports, things never work out the way you imagine.

Between last year and this year, so far, we have not taken a step forward, much less two steps forward. But it's been difficult to accept for some.

This is what a rebuild looks like? Sure but at least admit that we've not taken any steps forward and critical players like Slafkovsky, Reinbacher, Dach, and Guhle are not where we wanted them to be this season. Simple as. It isn't damning them or the rebuild. But I find it so dishonest to claim everything is rosy and peachy when our critical rebuild players have taken a step back or stagnated and we're last in the division, last in the conference, and bottom5 in the league.

 

[The Real Timo]

Next step should be to work on D-zone exists.

 

[Sorinth]

If Dach cannot return to his flashes of dominance before the last injury he suffered, his role lower in the lineup won't be nearly as useful, IMO, especially at C.

Beck definitely projects as a more solid shutdown 3rd line C, or an elite 4th line C, barring that.

Kapanen and Hage both project with a floor as a productive 3rd line C. Which would be better is hard to determine right now, but, barring them reaching their ceilings, a good 3rd line C is more easily available both via the trade market and on the UFA front.

If Dach doesn't solidify a claim as the Habs' 2nd line C by next season, the experiment may well not pan out in Montreal, period.

The time frame for Dach is by next year's trade deadline -- latest -- IMO. Habs can be extremely patient, as long as their are signs of a continued progression because the team might not even be contending for a playoff spot by then and any potential suitors for the second line pivot role apart from Dach might not see an NHL shift before next season and could be better off eased into the NHL in a 3rd line role initially.

Newhook, IMO, is not a legitimate 2nd line Center candidate. Nor is Evans, nor anyone else currently in the lineup apart from Dach.

Mostly agree, though I would add the caveat that Dach could end up a top-6 winger. Dissapointing for sure, but not the end of the world. There's going to be more competition for winger spots once Demidov arrives and if Laine re-signs then somebody probably gets moved out, but that's a bridge to cross when we get there.

For Newhook, he produced quite well as 2nd line C last season with Armia/Gallagher/Roy. He's not the ideal #2, but if he reaches his potential he could potentially push for the spot, especially as a stopgap solution if we are waiting for Hage or this years pick.

In the end both guys have shown they can contribute in the top-6, if they get back to that then we will find a place for them, but if they don't then they probably don't get re-signed and will be moved instead.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Good post. I am just going to sit back and enjoy seeing how this all folds out. For the most part it has been a tire fire for the past 30 years. It shouldn't be too hard to improve on that

I think we will be fine but it might take a few more years. What will we be when our youth is in mature years? Not sure... top 10 team probably but not sure we reach top 5. Something like that.

Yup. Accepting we don't know the answer is stage-1 of the 7 Stages Of Rebuild Grief.

For me, I'm cool taking one step back, as long as it ends with two steps forward. Like everyone, I have my expectations, but over the decades I've learned that, in sports, things never work out the way you imagine.

Agreed. I do think we will be a good team but it's going to take a few more years. Most top 10 teams or contenders have their core in the age 25+ range. Right now, we have most of our guys 25 and under.

25%? I'd say it's even lower than that. Just look at this board. Some of the same people calling for a tank are lambasting the coaches and players for not having the team win or perform better.

You might be right on that.