The state of the Habs Rebuild - The Next step

[Demigod]

Sure but keep in mind if we had a bunch of good veterans to lead the way for the young guys we wouldn't have ended up with 3 top-5 pick plus whatever we get this year. It's always a tradeoff, to get the higher quality elite players you can only get with top picks means you can't have a roster with lots of good veterans.

I agree with you, but the fact that we dont have enough depth is forcing us to overplay players that are not neccesserely ready for those minutes and duty. I dont have any problems to have youngs players with the big club but I dont like overusing some of them because we lack depth. It will hurt us on the long run. By playing Hutson 25 minutes per game its a matter of time that he'll be tired and it open place for injury.

I just want to see our prospect jumping with the Habs when they are really ready, and having the luxury to manage their ice time to ensure the best conditions for their development.

To be able to do that we need more depth in our roster and I will not mind spending some late pick for good vets that can play on the 3rd or 4th line or some third pairing defensman. I think its gonna help the rebuild in the long term.

 

[Sorinth]

I agree with you, but the fact that we dont have enough depth is forcing us to overplay players that are not neccesserely ready for those minutes and duty. I dont have any problems to have youngs players with the big club but I dont like overusing some of them because we lack depth. It will hurt us on the long run. By playing Hutson 25 minutes per game its a matter of time that he'll be tired and it open place for injury.

I just want to see our prospect jumping with the Habs when they are really ready, and having the luxury to manage their ice time to ensure the best conditions for their development.

To be able to do that we need more depth in our roster and I will not mind spending some late pick for good vets that can play on the 3rd or 4th line or some third pairing defensman. I think its gonna help the rebuild in the long term.

For Hutson specifically I don't think it's a problem for him to jump in and play big minutes because he specifically can handle it. For others for sure they will need to take a slower route, which the team has done with some players. Slaf for example was given a limited role to start and then worked his way into more minutes and a bigger role.

The only player I can think that got too many minutes before they were ready is maybe Mailloux, and I'm not sure more vets would really have prevented that since space is limited and injuries happen so at best your looking for AHL depth D that can play in the NHL like Lindstrom.

The guys like Xhekaj, Barron, Struble, I don't think the problem was they weren't ready for the NHL and needed more AHL time. The problem is more that integrating 3 or more young D is just very difficult. But even if the results are not great right now, I don't think them playing in the NHL vs AHL is something that hurts their long term development prospects.

 

[Demigod]

For Hutson specifically I don't think it's a problem for him to jump in and play big minutes because he specifically can handle it. For others for sure they will need to take a slower route, which the team has done with some players. Slaf for example was given a limited role to start and then worked his way into more minutes and a bigger role.

The only player I can think that got too many minutes before they were ready is maybe Mailloux, and I'm not sure more vets would really have prevented that since space is limited and injuries happen so at best your looking for AHL depth D that can play in the NHL like Lindstrom.

The guys like Xhekaj, Barron, Struble, I don't think the problem was they weren't ready for the NHL and needed more AHL time. The problem is more that integrating 3 or more young D is just very difficult. But even if the results are not great right now, I don't think them playing in the NHL vs AHL is something that hurts their long term development prospects.

Exactly. In a perfect world you play only two prospect in your top 6. First pairing should be experience D that can take huge minutes against the best players.

Second pairing you have one veteran with a prospect

Same on the third pairing.

This way there's no prospect that get expose on the first pair and you have some vet presence to help the youngster in their development.

Right now it's a shit show. If we remove Matheson and Savard the others defensman have a total of like 200 nhl game . Its a recipe for disaster.

 

[Sorinth]

Exactly. In a perfect world you play only two prospect in your top 6. First pairing should be experience D that can take huge minutes against the best players.

Second pairing you have one veteran with a prospect

Same on the third pairing.

This way there's no prospect that get expose on the first pair and you have some vet presence to help the youngster in their development.

Right now it's a shit show. If we remove Matheson and Savard the others defensman have a total of like 200 nhl game . Its a recipe for disaster.

No doubt it's hurting the team in terms of winning right now, the big question facing the rebuild/tank is whether it's hurting the long term development of the player. I do think there's a case to be made that it's part of the "lack of confidence" issue, and confidence is certainly an issue that can impact development but it's never cut and dry. We saw with Slaf's rookie year fans going on about lack of confidence and how his bad play was "ruining" him, and that just wasn't true, you can be playing bad and still learning.

 

[Egresch]

I like Matheson, but he is not a vet who helps young D on the ice. He helps off the ice with his dedication and work ethic and eats a lot of minutes. Savard was great, but his lack of off ice dedication caused a huge downfall and he is an anchor on the ice this season.
Anyway, D usually needs 200 games in NHL to stabilize and we are not there. Guhle has 125 and he leads the young group.

 

[Tabarouette]

I swear if we learn we got an offer for Matheson and said no i'm stealing the statue of Jean Beliveau in front of the Bell Centre

 

[JeffreyLFC]

I am not worried about the lack of experience surrounding our younger players. It is nice to have nice leaders, yes, but even then it does not mean anything to younger players other than show to lead outside the rink. The young players have to learn to swim and adapt to the NHL, every star players have to go through that phase, very rarely we see players be dominant NHLer as 18/19/20 years old, they always do it progressively.

Based on other teams going through rebuilds they faced similar situations (Colorado, Florida comes to mind). They took a while to take off even though they had very talented young players on their squad, they made trades once they identified their core players. I know Habs fans does not like that word but patience is required and our top drafted prospects are not even integrated yet to the team (Demidov, Reinbacher, Hage, Beck, Fowler). It is normal to struggle at this point of the rebuild, if the team were pushing for a playoff spot it would be even more surprising. The Habs will have eventually to make some trades to improve the 'present' but I do not think we are that phase yet of the rebuild, of course if a team is willing to trade away a young #1/#2 center or #1 RD we should always be interested but even if we do not have one right now, I don't think it's a problem.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Hi guys,

Been reading you for few months now. Decide to jump onboard because I like having good talk about my favorite team. Sorry if my english is not perfect.

So far what im seeing from the Habs with the rebuild is that we rush the young guys in the show. There a lack of good veterans to leads the way to the youngs guns. The results is that there is to much players that play in the show that would benefit time in Laval. Sadly we dont have enough depth in our roster to do so. For example, a guy like Xhekaj, Barron or even Struble should play in the AHL to develop and be called up if he really prove that he is ready. Now to much players are playing because we dont have the choice. When MSL was saying you have to take the chair that fits you and you have to prove that you can have a better chair it doesnt work right now because we lack on depth so the results a lot of players are playing by default and not because they deserve it.

Welcome.

I think you’re right about us not having enough vets. I think we need one on the back end right side.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I am not worried about the lack of experience surrounding our younger players. It is nice to have nice leaders, yes, but even then it does not mean anything to younger players other than show to lead outside the rink. The young players have to learn to swim and adapt to the NHL, every star players have to go through that phase, very rarely we see players be dominant NHLer as 18/19/20 years old, they always do it progressively.

Based on other teams going through rebuilds they faced similar situations (Colorado, Florida comes to mind). They took a while to take off even though they had very talented young players on their squad, they made trades once they identified their core players. I know Habs fans does not like that word but patience is required and our top drafted prospects are not even integrated yet to the team (Demidov, Reinbacher, Hage, Beck, Fowler). It is normal to struggle at this point of the rebuild, if the team were pushing for a playoff spot it would be even more surprising. The Habs will have eventually to make some trades to improve the 'present' but I do not think we are that phase yet of the rebuild, of course if a team is willing to trade away a young #1/#2 center or #1 RD we should always be interested but even if we do not have one right now, I don't think it's a problem.

I think there's also a delicate balance.

We see teams like buffalo and Ottawa who have lost so much and so long that they can't get out of it.

But what about a Toronto team that got out of losing too quickly and easily that they've never been able to handle adversity in the playoffs.

 

[Habs]

I swear if we learn we got an offer for Matheson and said no i'm stealing the statue of Jean Beliveau in front of the Bell Centre

if you do I'll give you 500$ for it, that would look sweet on my driveway

 

[Mrb1p]

if you do I'll give you 500$ for it, that would look sweet on my driveway

Would be a nice prop for the podcast

 

[Habs]

Would be a nice prop for the podcast

The 'Two Tards & a Statue Podcast' - Lets do it
Probably get a grant from Trudeau

 

[schwang26]

I have to say I’m a bit surprised they didn’t claim Reimer. I can’t imagine they want to continue with Primeau.

 

[HabsCode]

I have to say I’m a bit surprised they didn’t claim Reimer. I can’t imagine they want to continue with Primeau.

Probably don't want to lose him on waivers yet?

 

[morhilane]

I think there's also a delicate balance.

We see teams like buffalo and Ottawa who have lost so much and so long that they can't get out of it.

But what about a Toronto team that got out of losing too quickly and easily that they've never been able to handle adversity in the playoffs.

I think it's mostly that Toronto drafting (development?) was crap outside the 1st round after 2006, so they went the shortcut route of plugging the holes via UFAs/Trade once they got Matthews. It accelerate things, but you have a mercenary team after that.

 

[Schooner Guy]

I have to say I’m a bit surprised they didn’t claim Reimer. I can’t imagine they want to continue with Primeau.

They might not want any homophobia backlash.

 

[the valiant effort]

A worldwide goalie “talent” pool that still can’t push Reimer outta the league after 15 years

 

[WeThreeKings]

I'm no fan of Engels but this is an excellent article

Canadiens know short-term pain offers better path to long-term gain

Montreal Canadiens general manager Kent Hughes is doing the only thing that makes sense at this juncture: Nothing.

www.sportsnet.ca

And does give an insight into where Hughes and Gorton are at with this season.

 

[Miller Time]

I'm no fan of Engels but this is an excellent article

Canadiens know short-term pain offers better path to long-term gain

Montreal Canadiens general manager Kent Hughes is doing the only thing that makes sense at this juncture: Nothing.

www.sportsnet.ca

And does give an insight into where Hughes and Gorton are at with this season.

So haply to have competent management in place... what a breath of fresh air!

 

[BergevinBurner]

It's still so early, but so far I'm just keeping everything crossed for a top 4 pick. Martone, Misa, Hagens and Schaefer could all make a case for the #1 spot and I'd be over the moon to get any of them.

Finishing bottom 3 would be massive, at 3rd we'd have a 70% chance of picking top 4, but at 4th it drops to just below a 35% chance.

 

[rahad]

It's still so early, but so far I'm just keeping everything crossed for a top 4 pick. Martone, Misa, Hagens and Schaefer could all make a case for the #1 spot and I'd be over the moon to get any of them.

Finishing bottom 3 would be massive, at 3rd we'd have a 70% chance of picking top 4, but at 4th it drops to just below a 35% chance.

Is going to be hard to our tank San Jose, Chicago, Anaheim (again!) and Columbus. Columbus are on a free fall to the bottom of the league. The Sharks with Celebrini has a chance to be outside of the bottom 3.

 

[yianik]

So missiles are coming in from all directions attacking the rebuild ,the coaching, the players especially certain ones and so on. We are getting 20 games on, it's no longer early in the season.

Hughes and Gorton need to call a presser and address and diffuse things. We have a young in experience coach and lots of young players, management needs to step in and settle stuff down, give us their thoughts.

This needs to be done.

 

[ReHabs]

I'm no fan of Engels but this is an excellent article

Canadiens know short-term pain offers better path to long-term gain

Montreal Canadiens general manager Kent Hughes is doing the only thing that makes sense at this juncture: Nothing.

www.sportsnet.ca

And does give an insight into where Hughes and Gorton are at with this season.

Kent Hughes: "And you learn who will be able to help you both now and in the future, and also who might help you collect more valuable assets to bring this team to where it wants to go down the line."

I wonder how he has been reshuffling his Naughty & Nice (ie Cut-Loose & Keep) list.

Kirby Dach: gets more time, but he's not been involved out there...
Gallagher: saved himself from a contract buy-out?
Newhook: tradebait?
Matheson: ?

 

[HabbyGuy]

I'm no fan of Engels but this is an excellent article

Canadiens know short-term pain offers better path to long-term gain

Montreal Canadiens general manager Kent Hughes is doing the only thing that makes sense at this juncture: Nothing.

www.sportsnet.ca

And does give an insight into where Hughes and Gorton are at with this season.

This is exactly the right approach and mindset we need from this management. It's the only logical route, I shudder to think where we'd be if we let a large contingent of the"fans" on here to run this organization. It's crazy, no foresight whatsoever.

Great article.

I am not worried about the lack of experience surrounding our younger players. It is nice to have nice leaders, yes, but even then it does not mean anything to younger players other than show to lead outside the rink. The young players have to learn to swim and adapt to the NHL, every star players have to go through that phase, very rarely we see players be dominant NHLer as 18/19/20 years old, they always do it progressively.

Based on other teams going through rebuilds they faced similar situations (Colorado, Florida comes to mind). They took a while to take off even though they had very talented young players on their squad, they made trades once they identified their core players. I know Habs fans does not like that word but patience is required and our top drafted prospects are not even integrated yet to the team (Demidov, Reinbacher, Hage, Beck, Fowler). It is normal to struggle at this point of the rebuild, if the team were pushing for a playoff spot it would be even more surprising. The Habs will have eventually to make some trades to improve the 'present' but I do not think we are that phase yet of the rebuild, of course if a team is willing to trade away a young #1/#2 center or #1 RD we should always be interested but even if we do not have one right now, I don't think it's a problem.

Good post, I agree with you, it's just all a part of the process. It's sink or swim time, Hughes needs to get some questions answered going forward.