The state of the Habs Rebuild - The Next step

[HuGort]

It's going to take 5 years minimum. You draft then develop these players. Going to take 5 years to fully develop these stars.

In those 5 years you have time to clear out the contracts you don't want. Along with adding the front office and coaching staff you do want

 

[417]

Clearly the players are having problems with the way they deploy in their own end and it's not a new thing, it's been like that all season last year too.

So again I ask, does that point to system or execution if as you say the players aes having problems deploying in their own end.

it's the responsability of the Coach to adapt, and now he's been throwing them under the bus the last 2 after game presser......at a certain point he'll have to take responsability for the disaster they are in their own end.

This system thing is a odd argument for me because most teams play some variation of the same system. There's not 1000 different ways to play a defensive system.

None of us really know what MSL is asking his players to do on the ice, from my understanding its some form of hybrid where the players play zone down low and up to the dots, but man up high in the zone.

A lot of teams play this.

So that's why I'm asking you, is it the system or the execution?

I'd lean towards the latter.…

 

[Garbageyuk]

We’re for sure heading for another top 10 pick this year, probably even top 5. At least there’s some good forwards available.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

People are ignoring nuance in here on both sides. Yes, we are still rebuilding, but we also seem to have taken a step back to start this year. Yes, progress isn't linear, but it is still measurable.

I think it's fair to be questioning if were on the right track, but unfair to claim these 11 games are proof that we're not.

It could be a rough year. That's just the reality of it.

Dach being awful really messed us up. We were counting on him to carry the 2nd line. He's clearly rusty and that is to be expected but it hasn't been fun to watch. Newhook is a good player who can play on the 2nd. But he's not good enough to carry the 2nd line.

I've missed the past couple of games so correct me if I'm wrong here but MSL shuffled the lines and put Slaf with Dach. I'm okay with that. But if you do that, why demote Newhook? That made no sense at all. The goal should be to get him going as well.

In any event, this is a small stint in a multi year rebuild. We're going to have ups and downs. Long term I love where we're at. This team's going to be good in a few years. I was hoping from progress this year - and maybe we'll see it - but maybe it's a rough year. Either way, it doesn't matter much to me. I don't see us as a playoff team anyway. So 85 point vs 70 point team doesn't really make a difference except us getting another higher pick.

 

[Sorinth]

I really think there is something you dont get in all this, most of us are not expecting playoffs or even results.....but we would like to see progress and we are witnessing regress, is it possible that MSL is not the right guy for our kids developpement, for me it's obvious for other no, that's call different opinion not impatience

Is it regression or inconsistency? There is no way to know given it's not even been 12 games, so anyone who is certain it is regression is showing impatience.

 

[teamfirst]

Is it regression or inconsistency? There is no way to know given it's not even been 12 games, so anyone who is certain it is regression is showing impatience.

Again, it's not only 12 games, it's been like that all last season too

 

[morhilane]

Is it regression or inconsistency? There is no way to know given it's not even been 12 games, so anyone who is certain it is regression is showing impatience.

The are playing worst than last year at 5v5, the issues aren't just in the dzone. There is a regression at the effort level at least, but they also seems to have forgotten how they played 5v5 last year..

 

[Sorinth]

Again, it's not only 12 games, it's been like that all last season too

Our team stats improved across the board last year compared to the year before. GF up, GA down, Points up, PP and PK up, etc...

 

[Sorinth]

The are playing worst than last year at 5v5, the issues aren't just in the dzone. There is a regression at the effort level at least, but they also seems to have forgotten how they played 5v5 last year..

Yes they are playing worse 5v5 but again how can you know that it's a regression and not just a slump/cold streak from us being inconsistent. I'm sure I could find a stretch of 10 games where we were even worse. It's not like we were super consistent in previous years either

 

[teamfirst]

So again I ask, does that point to system or execution if as you say the players aes having problems deploying in their own end.

This system thing is a odd argument for me because most teams play some variation of the same system. There's not 1000 different ways to play a defensive system.

None of us really know what MSL is asking his players to do on the ice, from my understanding its some form of hybrid where the players play zone down low and up to the dots, but man up high in the zone.

A lot of teams play this.

So that's why I'm asking you, is it the system or the execution?

I'd lean towards the latter.…

Maybe i'm wrong but, seems to me if my players aren't confortable playing a system am teaching them....... after a certain amount of time i would try something else, seems logic to me, we are experiencing the same problems in our own end since the beginning of MSL tenure, maybe he should try something else.

Do you really think that running around like headless chickens in our zone does any good for our young defensive core developpement

 

[Sorinth]

Maybe i'm wrong but, seems to me if my players aren't confortable playing a system am teaching them....... after a certain amount of time i would try something else, seems logic to me, we are experiencing the same problems in our own end since the beginning of MSL tenure, maybe he should try something else.

Do you really think that running around like headless chickens in our zone does any good for our young defensive core developpement

The d zone system was changed between last year and this year. So MSL did you exactly what you wanted him to.

 

[teamfirst]

Our team stats improved across the board last year compared to the year before. GF up, GA down, Points up, PP and PK up, etc...

Improving from the season we finished 32 in a league of 32 teams..........well i hope so

The d zone system was changed between last year and this year. So MSL did you exactly what you wanted him to.

Well i must be blind

 

[417]

Maybe i'm wrong but, seems to me if my players aren't confortable playing a system am teaching them....... after a certain amount of time i would try something else, seems logic to me, we are experiencing the same problems in our own end since the beginning of MSL tenure, maybe he should try something else.

Do you really think that running around like headless chickens in our zone does any good for our young defensive core developpement

I don't know if coaching a system you're not comfortable using is the answer either.

But again, I don't personally look at the Habs play and think the system is the issue, as I said earlier, there's not a ton of different ways to play in your end.

I get what you're saying its just easier for me to point out the execution flaws then the system ones because I don't specifically know what MSL is asking them to do.

But I don't think he's asking guys to blindly throw the puck away in the slot, or to abandon the front of the net to stop a player in the corner where he's not a threat.

The players are making those choices on the ice.Theres no way you actually think MSL is telling them to run around their D zone like headless chickens.

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

I have liked most of what HuGo have done so far and appreciate they were put in a shitty situation with lots to clean up, however my one issue with them has been them hanging onto vets with expiring contracts to try and get some type of return instead of just cutting them lose or sending them to the minors.

In 22/23 we had to watch Drouin/Dadonov play like shit most the year with only a handful of Gurianov games to show for it.

Last year we had to watch Tanner Pearson for over 50 games despite him looking like absolute shit after the first couple weeks.

Then this year we're stuck with Armia and Dvorak, Armia is good on the PK, but you never know the effort you'll get from him.

They don't owe veterans like this anything and it sets an example to either step up, or GTFO. I'd rather fill out our roster with guys like ABB, Condotta etc. who would bring effort most nights than continuing to watch some of these overpaid shitty vets bring nothing with minimal effort.

 

[Sorinth]

Improving from the season we finished 32 in a league of 32 teams..........well i hope so



Well i must be blind

Neither last year and the year before weee the year we finished last.

 

[417]

I have liked most of what HuGo have done so far and appreciate they were put in a shitty situation with lots to clean up, however my one issue with them has been them hanging onto vets with expiring contracts to try and get some type of return instead of just cutting them lose or sending them to the minors.

In 22/23 we had to watch Drouin/Dadonov play like shit most the year with only a handful of Gurianov games to show for it.

Last year we had to watch Tanner Pearson for over 50 games despite him looking like absolute shit after the first couple weeks.

Then this year we're stuck with Armia and Dvorak, Armia is good on the PK, but you never know the effort you'll get from him.

They don't owe veterans like this anything and it sets an example to either step up, or GTFO. I'd rather fill out our roster with guys like ABB, Condotta etc. who would bring effort most nights than continuing to watch some of these overpaid shitty vets bring nothing with minimal effort.

Armia, Dvorak, Savard are just filling a roster spot. Their days are numbered, its just a matter of time.

But Hughes, who is big on asset management, will try to get something for them, and we should be thankful for that because that's how you improve your team and sustain success.

Even late picks are currency. Right now, sending those guys to the minors doesn't help his coach and it doesn't help their trade value.

 

[Sorinth]

I don't know if coaching a system you're not comfortable using is the answer either.

But again, I don't personally look at the Habs play and think the system is the issue, as I said earlier, there's not a ton of different ways to play in your end.

I get what you're saying its just easier for me to point out the execution flaws then the system ones because I don't specifically know what MSL is asking them to do.

But I don't think he's asking guys to blindly throw the puck away in the slot, or to abandon the front of the net to stop a player in the corner where he's not a threat.

The players are making those choices on the ice.Theres no way you actually think MSL is telling them to run around their D zone like headless chickens.

Just want to add there was a play last game I think late in the 3rd where Savard was in between an opposing player in the slot and one in the corner and he was yelling and waving at Kapanen who was in zone-d mode not really covering anyone to come and take the guy in the slot so that Savard could move against the guy in the corner. And although the handoff did happen it took several seconds to get Kapanen's attention and even after that the handoff wasn't super clean. It stuck out both since Savard waving like a madman isn't something you see everyday and also because it sort of encapsulated the system as intended but just how much execution and communication matters to it working.

 

[rahad]

Create the ''2025 tank thread'' and they will start losing in OT. Our goalies will play in god mode. Our bottom 6 players will play at 150%.

 

[Mrb1p]

Who cares about Dvorak man.

Matheson, Caufield, Anderson, Kapenen, Newhook and Barron all play soft, soft hockey and they're all terrible defensively. That's the important players and those are the players that play like theyre in a f***ing country club.

 

[morhilane]

Yes they are playing worse 5v5 but again how can you know that it's a regression and not just a slump/cold streak from us being inconsistent. I'm sure I could find a stretch of 10 games where we were even worse. It's not like we were super consistent in previous years either

Current Habs never played like this except under Ducharme in the 2021-2022 season. They look like a team who tuned out their coach, that's not a slump/cold streak.

Regression is falling back to bad habits and that's exactly what the players have been doing.