The state of the Habs Rebuild - The Next step

[kyne]

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[Le Barron de HF]

Also don't forget that being a fan of this team is constant suffering so Suzuki/Caufield will get sick of losing and ask for a trade next season to go immediately win a cup elsewhere

not to mention the season ending injury Demidov will have at training camp

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If they get criticized and become a scape goat like Eichel, and co were on other teams. Quite possible.

 

[Benstheman]

The gaslighting from some posters on “patience” is pretty funny to me. We’ve finished in the bottom 5 three years in a row and there’s an excellent chance it could be 4 after this season but we’re “impatient” for asking to see some progress. Lol I think most Habs fans have been incredibly patient during this process.

Not enough.

 

[417]

The gaslighting from some posters on “patience” is pretty funny to me. We’ve finished in the bottom 5 three years in a row and there’s an excellent chance it could be 4 after this season but we’re “impatient” for asking to see some progress. Lol I think most Habs fans have been incredibly patient during this process.

There's no gaslighting...and this fanbase DOES lack patience.

Finished bottom 5, 3 years in a row...hmmmm.

They took over a team that was last place, finishing last was the objective. "Blaming them" for finishing last overall the half season they took over, when that was what EVERYONE wanted, is disingenuous.

Since then, they've finished bottom 5 in consecutive years, while leading the league in man games lost, while also stockpiling a bunch of future assets that haven't matured yet.

Since HuGo has taken over, the team has drafted 30 players...remove Juraj Slafkovsky from that equation, and the 29 other prospects have played a total of 13 games, 12 of which are by Lane Hutson.

Yes...it takes time, more than 2.5 years...if that's news to you and your patience has already run out, then you weren't built for what you asked for, which was a rebuild.

That's YOU problem.

 

[Kosseca]

That and they need to start identifying some players to get.. Dach and Newhook were a good start, even if Dach has been injured and is starting to warm back up and Newhook has been ice cold.

But they have to do some more of that, like what was done in Florida.. find the Sam Bennetts, find the Forslings, we gotta start finding some external solutions that add, speed, grit and talent to fortify the group.

We can't just wait for everyone to develop in the AHL to come in and do the bottom 6, they'll make too many mistakes. They'll be people when developed who can come in and allow us to trade some people for more futures and sustain the model.

That just it... the team isn't ready. Blame injuries, bad contract from previous regime, inexperience coaches, or not enough time as passed since the start of the rebuild.... this is still a team that has too many holes still.

FLO did what KH is trying to do: get Reinhart, Bennett and Forsling and turn these players faith around. I still like the Dach acquisition, I very much believe he can be an effective top 6 guy. He need time, that's all. I think with him the Q is more of whether is a C or W, but he's worth the 1st we gave for him. Newhook... again we all saw him as a 3rd liner. He's player higher due to lack of better option. lets not freak out here. I think that Laine is also in the same vein, he just got injured. So for these 3... the solution is time: time to get back its rhythm (Dach), time to get better top 6 guys (Newhook), time to heal (Laine).

I agree that KH should keep targeting similar players. Beside maybe 1 or two guy in Laval, most of them wont move the needle in the NHL... Problem is that other DGs see him coming now and what we need is hard to get (grit, size and RD).

Regardless... To add you need to make room, and you'll want to make sure the players that dont fit are gone... time to say be-bye to Dvorak/Armia

 

[GrandmaCookie]

Hopefully HuGo are level-headed enough to not crumble under the felt pressure by the Montreal cookpot and stick to the plan, instead of trying to rush the rebuild, which is the worst thing they could possibly do.

 

[Canadienna]

People are ignoring nuance in here on both sides. Yes, we are still rebuilding, but we also seem to have taken a step back to start this year. Yes, progress isn't linear, but it is still measurable.

I think it's fair to be questioning if were on the right track, but unfair to claim these 11 games are proof that we're not.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Idk I just can't really see the reason to be worried about the rebuild because 11 games in the veterans we expected to be mediocre have instead been terrible and the U23 defencemen other than Guhle are playing like U23 defencemen (and Laine's been out compounding Dach's slow start). It sucks to sit through but I don't really think Savard/Dvorak/Anderson/Armia sucking and Barron/Xhekaj/Struble struggling with 60-100 NHL games played each is really all that concerning long term. The vets are placeholders and the young guys are being given an opportunity to sink or swim and we'll move on from the guys who can't hack it. It's not going to be difficult to get veteran 3rd pair D down the line if the young guys don't develop into internal solutions for those roles and Suzuki/Caufield/Slafkovsky/Hutson/Guhle have all been great this year.

Not to mention the goaltending we've been getting. Montembeault has mostly been good and Primeau has mostly been very bad. It would be a shame if Primeau isn't able to become a decent NHL backup but it's not really a big deal if he can't, and that will have a massive impact on our 24-25 record without having any real relevance over the long term because we can always just sign a generic veteran backup for 2-3 million if Primeau/Dobes aren't capable of becoming that. Similarly with the depth roles on the roster, there's just a lot of low-hanging fruit in terms of raising the floor/baseline competitiveness that will be easy to fix as contracts expire and as players like Demidov come into the lineup and shift the focus from development to immediate competitiveness. We're taking the bad with the young guys right now because if any one of Barron, Struble, or Xhekaj can really break out and become a good 2nd pair D that's far more valuable to us than the extra 5 standing points we'd have by keeping eg. Kovacevic in the lineup in their place. If they can't we can sign one of the dozens of interchangeable #5-6 vets available every single July 1, deadline, and training camp.

I definitely get the critiques of the coaching and I'm not really a big fan of the (lack of) defensive structure, but in broader strategic terms we're still only dressing between 4 and 6 or 7 forwards a night who will be here long term, and on D Guhle and Hutson are the only guys we're currently banking on as core fixtures. The guys who matter are playing well, and the guys who are coin flips or scrub veterans aren't. The scrub veterans will be gone, and some of the young players will turn things around while others will be replaced by generic bottom six/bottom pair vets once we're out of a future-maximizing mode. I think those lineup concerns are bigger issues than the coaching. Part of that is I think St. Louis is either going to figure it out or he'll be gone, and in the meantime it's a positive that he's giving young players lots of ice time.

 

[417]

People are ignoring nuance in here on both sides. Yes, we are still rebuilding, but we also seem to have taken a step back to start this year. Yes, progress isn't linear, but it is still measurable.

I think it's fair to be questioning if were on the right track, but unfair to claim these 11 games are proof that we're not.

Agreed but you don't measure progress with a 12 game sample.

 

[Rapala]

Hopefully HuGo are level-headed enough to not crumble under the felt pressure by the Montreal cookpot and stick to the plan, instead of trying to rush the rebuild, which is the worst thing they could possibly do.

There is absolutely no way to rush this rebuild as it stands no worries there.
I hope they come up with a solution to our issues in house for the most part.
It means taking a good long look at what really ails us and changing what is broken.
I think it goes deeper than just having a poor veteran group.
The one thing I don't believe is that this is just a two steps forward one step back natural regression.

 

[GrandmaCookie]

There is absolutely no way to rush this rebuild as it stands no worries there.
I hope they come up with a solution to our issues in house for the most part.
It means taking a good long look at what really ails us and changing what is broken.
I think it goes deeper than just having a poor veteran group.
The one thing I don't believe is that this is just a two steps forward one step back natural regression.

I meant trading now our B assets prospect and/or 1st round pick for immediate help. I rather the let those assets grow a little and use them at a later stage of the rebuild when we actually are in the mix and need a push over the edge. Unless a deal is possible for a mid 20 good player.

 

[417]

The conversation with regards to the “rebuild” vs the current performance/results, almost have to be separate for the time being.

Most of what will hopefully constitute a successful rebuild, isn't even currently on the roster.

Remove Suzuki/Caufield/Slaf/Dach/Guhle/Hutson maybe Newhook, maybe Kapanen.

The rest who are currently on the team, are not part of that future equation.

Are we really disappointed because the above 6 mentioned players, aren't lifting the team higher heights?

Meh….

 

[teamfirst]

You're free to do whatever you please, just as I am.

I just prefer to remain consistent; this is what I wanted, I knew the road ahead wouldn't be filled with sunshine and lollipops, maybe you convinced yourself otherwise.

I just don't have sympathy for that personally.

Oh i am being consistent too, been sayin for a year that the way we play in our own end is in no way helping our youth developpement, most of our young D are regressing.

Rebuild can be criticize too you know.

 

[Sorinth]

It's kind of ironic that the complaints the last couple seasons were that we weren't tanking hard enough and now it's that it's taking too long and that a young inexperienced and inconsistent team is being inconsistent.

But it's not too surprising, not all but many of the most ardent pro-tankers were only on board with the tank for the short term gratification that comes with drafting an elite looking prospect. They felt they were denied that in 22 and 23 and blamed Hughes for not tanking harder, but once they got their wish with Demidov they are moving on to the next source of instant gratification, wins. And because going from the basement to contender isn't instant they are mad again and need someone to blame.

 

[vokiel]

Next step: Same as previous step. Cross fingers we drafted competitive individuals, wait for contracts which can not be moved to expire.

 

[teamfirst]

There's no gaslighting...and this fanbase DOES lack patience.

Finished bottom 5, 3 years in a row...hmmmm.

They took over a team that was last place, finishing last was the objective. "Blaming them" for finishing last overall the half season they took over, when that was what EVERYONE wanted, is disingenuous.

Since then, they've finished bottom 5 in consecutive years, while leading the league in man games lost, while also stockpiling a bunch of future assets that haven't matured yet.

Since HuGo has taken over, the team has drafted 30 players...remove Juraj Slafkovsky from that equation, and the 29 other prospects have played a total of 13 games, 12 of which are by Lane Hutson.

Yes...it takes time, more than 2.5 years...if that's news to you and your patience has already run out, then you weren't built for what you asked for, which was a rebuild.

That's YOU problem.

I really think there is something you dont get in all this, most of us are not expecting playoffs or even results.....but we would like to see progress and we are witnessing regress, is it possible that MSL is not the right guy for our kids developpement, for me it's obvious for other no, that's call different opinion not impatience

 

[417]

Oh i am being consistent too, been sayin for a year that the way we play in our own end is in no way helping our youth developpement, most of our young D are regressing.

Rebuild can be criticize too you know.

Probably has to do with the fact that other than David Savrd and Mike Matheson, no Dman on the roster has more than 120 NHL games under his belt, which isn't even the equivalent of 2 full NHL season.

And of course rebuilds can be criticized, just not quite sure I get what is being criticized right now.

Most of the pieces that are designed for this rebuild, aren't even on the roster.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

The reality the veterans are simply put awful and the younger player are too raw and maybe not good enough to take key roles. It seems pretty obvious to me that some players are here just to collect their paycheck and does not care about their on ice performance anymore.
What is worrying is the likes of Dach, Newhook, Guhle, Barron, Xhekaj and Slafkovsky struggling like that. They should take the next step in their career and so far they have not but then again the season is young. You need to see some progress.

 

[417]

I really think there is something you dont get in all this, most of us are not expecting playoffs or even results.....but we would like to see progress and we are witnessing regress, is it possible that MSL is not the right guy for our kids developpement, for me it's obvious for other no, that's call different opinion not impatience

There's nothing difficult to seize here, I've been a Habs fan for almost 40 years, I expected this.

Yes, all of us want to see progress, but those of us who understand HOW progress works, understand you need more than 12 games to evaluate said, or lack there of, progress.

If in March/April, we're still seeing the same team we're seeing now, making the same mistakes...then I might be slightly more concerned with some of the young leaders on this team, but i'm just not there yet.

If you had told me 3 months back, that on November 1st, 2024, the Montreal Canadiens would be sitting 25th overall, i'd say.

Yep, sounds about right.

Mind you, they are 2pts away from being 14th overall...so.....

 

[JustAHabFan]

Let's trade all our draft pick 2025 to secure MISA !!!

No need. The way we are playing, 1st over all will be ours.

 

[KevSkillz4]

No thank thread, but watch us winning the 1st overall pick this year!!

Let's freaking gooo!!

Porter Martone, pack your shit, you are a Montreal Canadiens!!!

 

[teamfirst]

There's nothing difficult to seize here, I've been a Habs fan for almost 40 years, I expected this.

Yes, all of us want to see progress, but those of us who understand HOW progress works, understand you need more than 12 games to evaluate said, or lack there of, progress.

If in March/April, we're still seeing the same team we're seeing now, making the same mistakes...then I might be slightly more concerned with some of the young leaders on this team, but i'm just not there yet.

If you had told me 3 months back, that on November 1st, 2024, the Montreal Canadiens would be sitting 25th overall, i'd say.

Yep, sounds about right.

Mind you, they are 2pts away from being 14th overall...so.....

People where sayin the same thing last December......so i guess we'll see what's gonna be the excuses at the end of the season, just hoping that in the mean time MSL finally understand that he needs to stop using that putrid system in our own end cuz it might ruin our yound D corps

 

[417]

People where sayin the same thing last December......so i guess we'll see what's gonna be the excuses at the end of the season, just hoping that in the mean time MSL finally understand that he needs to stop using that putrid system in our own end cuz it might ruin our yound D corps

Is it system? Or is it execution?

 

[beowulf]

Goaltending continues to be a major problems and so far my biggest underperformers/disappointments this year are Dach and Newhook.

Having Caufield at 10 goals already and Suzuki over a point per game is great but the team also needs some big defensive heroes to win consistently. While +/- is not a big stat with me, Dach being -12 in 11 games is just sad.

 

[teamfirst]

Is it system? Or is it execution?

Clearly the players are having problems with the way they deploy in their own end and it's not a new thing, it's been like that all season last year too. it's the responsability of the Coach to adapt, and now he's been throwing them under the bus the last 2 after game presser......at a certain point he'll have to take responsability for the disaster they are in their own end.