The state of the Habs Rebuild - The Next step

[teamfirst]

Don’t scream for a rebuild if you can’t handle it when it arrives.

I never screamed for a rebuild

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I never screamed for a rebuild

I see. You’d have preferred we not stock the cupboards with great young prospects. You’d have preferred the same path we’d been on for thirty years and no cup.

My apologies.

 

[Mrb1p]

Then you can call the start of the rebuild when they picked Hischier 1st overall and continued to not make the playoffs and draft high - and have yet to make the playoffs in back to back seasons.

But they picked Faksa in 2015 in the top 10.

The reality is the Devils are in a similar situation to the Habs, give or take a year. New management since 2020, prior management that had little direction and didn't do much, etc. But still accumulated despite their best efforts.

2017 drafted 1C
2018 bust
2019 drafted top 6er (very loose comparison)
2020/21 top pair D
2022 young top pair D

It shouldn't take another 3 years, especially with a "free" Caufield to their Holtz, if we consider that JH ~ Demidov.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

They might've been simply playing over their heads. A confluence of factors coming together. Some might've lost their confidence which is tenuous at that age, others might've become blasé (Suzuki, Savard, Caufield, Matheson, Dvo) and are just mailing it in, and the make-up of the D just didn't help any of that. Plus the injury to Laine which didn't help in refocusing the blasé bunch.



That's like the two biggest and hardest pieces to add. It is much.

Yes but I think we can look for trades to fill these roles at some points. Look at Vegas, their top players were all acquired via trades. I think the hardest part is setting a solid core of players on good contracts.

New York got Adam Fox, Zibanejad and Panarin from trades + free agency.

Vegas got Eichel, Stone, Pietrangelo from trades + free agency.

Florida got Tkachuk, Reinhart, Bobrovsky from trade + free agency.

Colorado had a reset of their rebuild by trading away Duchene.

I am not suggesting we need to make some trades right now but at some points when our young player are more developped and if we manage well the cap we could start looking for player that can bring instant impact.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Yes, but the cost for a real Top4 RD is prohibitive. And I don't see us paying it in an ongoing season.

We have so much to trade with though. If we went that route for example it would mean trading one of Mailloux or Baron. Two good prospects. We have tons of picks and other prospects as well. Matheson could be dealt…

 

[teamfirst]

I see. You’d have preferred we not stock the cupboards with great young prospects. You’d have preferred the same path we’d been on for thirty years and no cup.

My apologies.

Oh i see, your a black or white kind of guy, no apologies then

 

[Mrb1p]

Yes but I think we can look for trades to fill these roles at some points. Look at Vegas, their top players were all acquired via trades. I think the hardest part is setting a solid core of players on good contracts.

New York got Adam Fox, Zibanejad and Panarin from trades + free agency.

Vegas got Eichel, Stone, Pietrangelo from trades + free agency.

Florida got Tkachuk, Reinhart, Bobrovsky from trade + free agency.

Colorado had a reset of their rebuild by trading away Duchene.

I am not suggesting we need to make some trades right now but at some points when our young player are more developped and if we manage well the cap we could start looking for player that can bring instant impact.

Yes, it's time we start to use futures to bolster the lineup. Every asset beyond Demidov and this year's pick should be used to make the roster better for next year.

Id use any asset that would be scheduled for 2026 and beyond as money for current. Vets and young NHL assets alike.

I'd keep
Demidov
2025 1st
Hage
Roy
Beck

And use the rest for vets. Were going to have crazy money on the cap, were going to have ELCs coming in for at least 3 to 4 years in Demidov, Hage, 2025 1st and Beck plus whoever we keep.

That could potentially be 3 top 9 players for a 2.5m cap until 2028-2029. That's our contending window.

 

[OnTheRun]

We have so much to trade with though. If we went that route for example it would mean trading one of Mailloux or Baron. Two good prospects. We have tons of picks and other prospects as well. Matheson could be dealt…

I just don't see those pieces turning into a good established top4 RD. The scarcity make it that as soon one is available teams make a line to acquire him.

 

[Benstheman]

Yes but I think we can look for trades to fill these roles at some points. Look at Vegas, their top players were all acquired via trades. I think the hardest part is setting a solid core of players on good contracts.

New York got Adam Fox, Zibanejad and Panarin from trades + free agency.

Vegas got Eichel, Stone, Pietrangelo from trades + free agency.

Florida got Tkachuk, Reinhart, Bobrovsky from trade + free agency.

Colorado had a reset of their rebuild by trading away Duchene.

I am not suggesting we need to make some trades right now but at some points when our young player are more developped and if we manage well the cap we could start looking for player that can bring instant impact.

I will even add on that. a rebuilding team NEEDS to proceed with trades and UFA signings.

You cannot proceed with a rebuild and reasonably think you're cup winning team will ice 100% players coming from the draft.

 

[417]

We have so much to trade with though. If we went that route for example it would mean trading one of Mailloux or Baron. Two good prospects. We have tons of picks and other prospects as well. Matheson could be dealt…

It would be costly to acquire an established RD to step in and stabilize the entire defense right now.

I'd stay the course or look into temporary options like a Dante Fabbro. Not a long term solution, just another body to help out while Mailloux gains more pro experience and hopefully, Reinbacher gets healthy enough to play at some point.

 

[Mrb1p]

I just don't see those pieces turning into a good established top4 RD. The scarcity make it that as soon one is available teams make a line to acquire him.

We are one of the most assets rich team in the league. There's no way we can't acquire a top 4 RD.

It would be costly to acquire an established RD to step in and stabilize the entire defense right now.

I'd stay the course or look into temporary options like a Dante Fabbro. Not a long term solution, just another body to help out while Mailloux gains more pro experience and hopefully, Reinbacher gets healthy enough to play at some point.

Dante Fabbro is complete trash, you're probably holding onto his potential but he's worse than Barron.

 

[HabsCode]

I will even add on that. a rebuilding team NEEDS to proceed with trades and UFA signings.

You cannot proceed with a rebuild and reasonably think you're cup winning team will ice 100% players coming from the draft.

They made some moves, they got 3 forwards and a defenseman who currently is our most used D.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

It would be costly to acquire an established RD to step in and stabilize the entire defense right now.

We have so much to trade with though. Matheson and Barron (if we’re

I'd stay the course or look into temporary options like a Dante Fabbro. Not a long term solution, just another body to help out while Mailloux gains more pro experience and hopefully, Reinbacher gets healthy enough to play at some point.

A stable RD er would really help though. And I think Matheson needs to go so Guhle can go back to his normal side.

 

[417]

Dante Fabbro is complete trash, you're probably holding onto his potential but he's worse than Barron.

As I said in the very post you quoted, he's not a long-term solution...just someone whose got some experience who can be acquired at a reasonable cost.

I know he's not that great.

We have so much to trade with though. Matheson and Barron (if we’re

Agreed with Matheson...Barron I just don't think is very valuable.

A stable RD er would really help though. And I think Matheson needs to go so Guhle can go back to his normal side.

Yes 100%...just not that many guys like that, that are available, and teams are looking to move.

Also agree big time about moving Guhle back to his normal side. Sick of seeing him there and suspect it's a big reason why he keep getting upper-body injuries, he sacrifices his body to get to pucks and exposes himself constantly to blindside hits.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Oh i see, your a black or white kind of guy, no apologies then

are you not excited by the prospect pool we have? What were your feelings on the team we had before HUGO?

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Yes but I think we can look for trades to fill these roles at some points. Look at Vegas, their top players were all acquired via trades. I think the hardest part is setting a solid core of players on good contracts.

New York got Adam Fox, Zibanejad and Panarin from trades + free agency.

Vegas got Eichel, Stone, Pietrangelo from trades + free agency.

Florida got Tkachuk, Reinhart, Bobrovsky from trade + free agency.

Colorado had a reset of their rebuild by trading away Duchene.

I am not suggesting we need to make some trades right now but at some points when our young player are more developped and if we manage well the cap we could start looking for player that can bring instant impact.

Do you really think we have the FA appeal to attract top UFAs? Hughes may be very good at negociation, but you can't force UFAs to want to come here and historically, it's been slim pickings.

Something could happen on the trade front, but seeing how Hughes wants to pounce only on the best opportunities for adding major pieces, like we've seen in the past few years, as it happened only about once per year (Dach, Monahan, Newhook, Laine), this process will also take time.

Hughes will want to sign players, but he won't be relying on that to build-up the asset base.

I'm a firm believer that a rebuild's success is the accumulation of enough talent that culminates to a better team. A winning culture naturally comes to a boil when talent is added correctly and continually.

We have yet to see the full impact of our drafts, the key component of a rebuild, and won't see the full breath of it for 3-4 years.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

We have so much to trade with though. If we went that route for example it would mean trading one of Mailloux or Baron. Two good prospects. We have tons of picks and other prospects as well. Matheson could be dealt…

Who cares about Barron if we get a legit top-4

 

[Benstheman]

They made some moves, they got 3 forwards and a defenseman who currently is our most used D.

Agreed. Now do it for pivotal players you KNOW will have a positive impact.

I'm not saying these trades were bad but Dach and Newhook were reclamation projects coming with ???. And we still aren't seeing the impact right now.

Matheson was traded for an old washed up Petry and always was gonna be a temporary solution.

 

[OnTheRun]

I will even add on that. a rebuilding team NEEDS to proceed with trades and UFA signings.

You cannot proceed with a rebuild and reasonably think you're cup winning team will ice 100% players coming from the draft.

Of course, but it's all about timing. We are definitely at a point where we needs to resist the urge to ditch out contracts we will come to regret in 2~3 years time.

We are one of the most assets rich team in the league. There's no way we can't acquire a top 4 RD.


Dante Fabbro is complete trash, you're probably holding onto his potential but he's worse than Barron.

It's not because that you are assets rich that you suddenly become willing to outbids everyone when you still have question marks all over your roster. I really don't see us pulling the trigger on that during the season.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Agreed with ...Barron I just don't think is very valuable.

Yes 100%...just not that many guys like that, that are available, and teams are looking to move.

Also agree big time about moving Guhle back to his normal side. Sick of seeing him there and suspect it's a big reason why he keep getting upper-body injuries, he sacrifices his body to get to pucks and exposes himself constantly to blindside hits.

Players are never easy to find and maybe none are available. But I hope they’re looking. Lots of teams are looking for young talent/picks.

 

[Mrb1p]

As I said in the very post you quoted, he's not a long-term solution...just someone whose got some experience who can be acquired at a reasonable cost.

I know he's not that great.


Agreed with Matheson...Barron I just don't think is very valuable.

Yes 100%...just not that many guys like that, that are available, and teams are looking to move.

Also agree big time about moving Guhle back to his normal side. Sick of seeing him there and suspect it's a big reason why he keep getting upper-body injuries, he sacrifices his body to get to pucks and exposes himself constantly to blindside hits.

Then use Barron who's currently sitting?
Use Trudeau who's a kid with potential? Get an actual vet that can teach the kids a few things?

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I will even add on that. a rebuilding team NEEDS to proceed with trades and UFA signings.

You cannot proceed with a rebuild and reasonably think you're cup winning team will ice 100% players coming from the draft.

Yeah, but you still need those draft picks to come to fruition, which takes years. Hughes will necessarily use both trades and signings, but we aren't even close to seeing what we'll have out of drafts because our biggest hole is on D and Ds take more time to develop.

I'd rather be waiting on our draft picks to arrive than hoping sone miracle signing or trade will happen. First rebuild draft was two years ago and we've already added two significant pieces from that draft.

It... takes.. time

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Who cares about Barron if we get a legit top-4

That’s my point. If you trade for a vet RD, then one of Barton/Mailloux is expendable.

It’s not that I don’t think they’re good or worth waiting on it’s just that we are so green back there.

 

[Mrb1p]

Of course, but it's all about timing. We are definitely at a point where we needs to resist the urge to ditch out contracts we will come to regret in 2~3 years time.



It's not because that you are assets rich that you suddenly become willing to outbids everyone when you still have question marks all over your roster. I really don't see us pulling the trigger on that during the season.

Then these p***yes need to move over for someone with balls. Vegas built a perrenial contender and cup winner on futures alone.

Enough of the bar-lowering. The Habs can be contenders.

Who cares about Barron if we get a legit top-4

Who cares about Barron whether or not we get a legit top-4

 

[Benstheman]

Yeah, but you still need those draft picks to come to fruition, which takes years. Hughes will necessarily use both trades and signings, but we aren't even close to seeing what we'll have out of drafts because our biggest hole is on D and Ds take more time to develop.

I'd rather be waiting on our draft picks to arrive than hoping sone miracle signing or trade will happen. First rebuild draft was two years ago and we've already added two significant pieces from that draft.

It... takes.. time

I agree but my point was that even in the middle of a rebuild, you may need to acquire pivotal players to help prospects reaching their ceiling. i personally think it's as important as the quality of prospects you draft.

Of course, but it's all about timing. We are definitely at a point where we needs to resist the urge to ditch out contracts we will come to regret in 2~3 years time.



It's not because that you are assets rich that you suddenly become willing to outbids everyone when you still have question marks all over your roster. I really don't see us pulling the trigger on that during the season.

Definitely not during the season.