The Sopranos - what am I missing?

[The Madrigal]

While we are at it I will name a couple of recent shows that got a lot of hype that I think are extremely overrated.

Stranger Things
Decent show. Love how they captured the look and feel of the early 80's so well. Season 1 was solid, I thought season 2 was kind of a mess.

Entourage
I will apologize in advance to any fans of the show but I would describe it with one word....TRASH.

 

[RobBrown4PM]

Season 2 of ST was crap. It relied far to much on most of the same tropes from the first season, and the characters are becoming much less believable as the actors age.

I honestly do believe the show would be better if it was an anthology series much like Fargo.

 

[RobBrown4PM]

Speaking of which, watch Fargo, the TV series, you won't regret it.

 

[Supermassive]

I don't care if you think the Wire is or isn't the greatest show ever. But the bolded is hilariously stupid.

It’s not. Most people I know never bothered with The Wire, because it starts dull and stays dull. Duller than Season 1 of The Sopranos, in my opinion. The Sopranos went on to become the granddaddy of all TV crime dramas. The Wire seemed to become a religion for self-acclaimed “elitists”. Breaking Bad is a fantasy thriller, and doesn’t really belong in the same world as the other two.

 

[Shareefruck]

It’s not. Most people I know never bothered with The Wire, because it starts dull and stays dull. Duller than Season 1 of The Sopranos, in my opinion. The Sopranos went on to become the granddaddy of all TV crime dramas. The Wire seemed to become a religion for self-acclaimed “elitists”. Breaking Bad is a fantasy thriller, and doesn’t really belong in the same world as the other two.

Deciding that a show has proven itself to be bad based on finding the first 15 minutes dull can be classified as "hilariously stupid" regardless of whether or not it turns out to be true that it stays dull.

 

[Emperoreddy]

If by dated you mean you it was shot in SD and had a much smaller budget then current shows, well that is a silly thing to hold against it. All media ages, and ususally it doesn’t do so gracefully. Plus this was the beginning of the age of the TV serial drama dominating.

If you mean the content, well that is the point. The show is purposefully married to the time it is set. This viewpoint of the change of the millennium, and the shifting of generations and how the American family perceived and dealt with it.

It also ended up showcasing how 9/11 really changed American viewpoints.

It also deals with the issue of older generations issues with nostalgia. This idea that America was so much better in years past and everything is getting worse. It plays that against the mob stereotype of the old great movies showcasing it as almost honorable and glamerous against the harsh reality.

Also I don’t think you were ever supposed to like AJ? Honestly he seems like a fairly accurate look at what a wealthy, neglectful mobster would produce as a kid.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Finish watching it. Season 3, 4 and 5 are the best combination of writing and acting ever in any media.

I actually think season 2 is the strongest, and maybe season 3 is the weakest. I really do like 1, but it is also a bit wonky. Can feel more like a film school project then the big budget TV show at times.

I also am one of the few who actually like season 6.

 

[Supermassive]

Deciding that a show has proven itself to be bad based on finding the first 15 minutes dull can be classified as "hilariously stupid" regardless of whether or not it turns out to be true that it stays dull.

Not bad, just overrated. His words.

I'm going to give The Wire another go this summer, this time with subtitles. I've always found it hard to follow in the quiet moments. Have trouble picking up some of the dialogue.

We give up on shows that don't interest us, happens all the time. If his gripe was remedied later in Season 1, as the OP's gripe is remedied in Season 2 of the The Sopranos, then he'd be ripe for correction. I'm not so sure he is, though.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Not bad, just overrated. His words.

I'm going to give The Wire another go this summer, this time with subtitles. I've always found it hard to follow in the quiet moments. Have trouble picking up some of the dialogue.

We give up on shows that don't interest us, happens all the time. If his gripe was remedied later in Season 1, as the OP's gripe is remedied in Season 2 of the The Sopranos, then he'd be ripe for correction. I'm not so sure he is, though.

the thing I noticed about most people that couldn't get into The Wire is it comes down to preferences

The Wire is all about the characters and their interactions. It is a character study, and a masterful one at that.

If you aren't a fan of character driven shows/movies where dialog and relationships are the point of the show, then it won't be for you.

Season 1 does pick up, and fast in the last 3-4 episodes. The payoffs and action come hard and fast.

And I'll say this now....Season 2 may be its best season. It's an amazing look at family, fighting to adapt/survive, what people will do to protect what they have.

A lot of the hate, understandably so, is because most people went into Season 2 straight from binging Season 1. So you are expecting a continuation of Season 1 and instead get the shock of a new group of characters to focus on. If you go into it without expecting more Season 1 and look at it as it's own story, the greatness shows.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Best TV series ever. Give it time. Keep going.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

While we are at it I will name a couple of recent shows that got a lot of hype that I think are extremely overrated.

Stranger Things
Decent show. Love how they captured the look and feel of the early 80's so well. Season 1 was solid, I thought season 2 was kind of a mess.

Entourage
I will apologize in advance to any fans of the show but I would describe it with one word....TRASH.

Entourage is trash, but it is fun trash.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

Deciding that a show has proven itself to be bad based on finding the first 15 minutes dull can be classified as "hilariously stupid" regardless of whether or not it turns out to be true that it stays dull.

This guy gets it.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

Not bad, just overrated. His words.

Based on 15 minutes! Drawing a conclusion on how good or bad, overrated or underated a show is, regardless of what the conclusion is, based on 15 minutes is....

hilariously stupid.

 

[peate]

Based on 15 minutes! Drawing a conclusion on how good or bad, overrated or underated a show is, regardless of what the conclusion is, based on 15 minutes is....

hilariously stupid.

I know, it usually takes me at least 20.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

the thing I noticed about most people that couldn't get into The Wire is it comes down to preferences

The Wire is all about the characters and their interactions. It is a character study, and a masterful one at that.

If you aren't a fan of character driven shows/movies where dialog and relationships are the point of the show, then it won't be for you.

Season 1 does pick up, and fast in the last 3-4 episodes. The payoffs and action come hard and fast.

And I'll say this now....Season 2 may be its best season. It's an amazing look at family, fighting to adapt/survive, what people will do to protect what they have.

A lot of the hate, understandably so, is because most people went into Season 2 straight from binging Season 1. So you are expecting a continuation of Season 1 and instead get the shock of a new group of characters to focus on. If you go into it without expecting more Season 1 and look at it as it's own story, the greatness shows.

 

[NyQuil]

I think Season 2 gets unfairly maligned.

I think I may have it as my #2 season or #3.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I think Season 2 gets unfairly maligned.

I think I may have it as my #2 season or #3.

I thought season 2 was fantastic and I didn't know until I looked on HFboards that it was a less popular season. The Sobotka family (particularly Frank) were great characters.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

I think Season 2 gets unfairly maligned.

I think I may have it as my #2 season or #3.

I don't think it was bad, but I don't really see the case for it being better than 3

 

[NyQuil]

I don't think it was bad, but I don't really see the case for it being better than 3

I have #3 as my #1.

I think #4 is overrated (as far Wire seasons go) but a lot of people have it as their favourite.

Anyway, this discussion has been going on in the Wire thread for years now.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

I thought season 2 was fantastic and I didn't know until I looked on HFboards that it was a less popular season. The Sobotka family (particularly Frank) were great characters.

yup, the Sobotkas and dock workers played out like a great tragic story.

It also expands the "universe" by showing the aspect/effects of the drug trade as it relates to those bringing them into the country.

It also lays a ton of groundwork for the final 3 seasons...introducing Prop Joe as a player, Colvin, Mouzone, the rift between Avon and Stringer, the weakening of the Barksdale operation creating the vacuum for Marlo to enter.

I rank the seasons 1, 2, 4, 3, 5

Season 3 was too unbelievable with the Hamsterdam aspect, same for season 5 with the McNulty/serial killer story.

1, 2, 4 are all grounded in reality and tell great stories

 

[kook10]

I thought season 2 was fantastic and I didn't know until I looked on HFboards that it was a less popular season. The Sobotka family (particularly Frank) were great characters.

I really liked the season and the writing, but I thought the acting by Ziggy / James Ransone was awful. One reviewer called him the JarJar Binks of The Wire and I would tend to agree. To a lesser degree I didn't like the acting by Nick / Pablo Schreiber, but I didn't mind him so much since the series acting by the young hoppers and later the schoolkids overall wasn't very good either (*good for a kid). The writing really covered up a lot of things in that series. Anyone else remember that terrible acting by that one drunk detective?

 

[Neutrinos]

If you've watched all the great shows of the past 20 years I assume you've seen Six Feet Under as well?

True Detective S1 and Band of Brothers are also must watches.

BSG is Battlestar Galactica or something like that.

The first season was okay, but I found the rest of the series largely uninteresting

The show was filled with unlikable characters who just bickered with each other

And Michael C. Hall's acting was cringe worthy

 

[Shareefruck]

Not bad, just overrated. His words.

I'm going to give The Wire another go this summer, this time with subtitles. I've always found it hard to follow in the quiet moments. Have trouble picking up some of the dialogue.

We give up on shows that don't interest us, happens all the time. If his gripe was remedied later in Season 1, as the OP's gripe is remedied in Season 2 of the The Sopranos, then he'd be ripe for correction. I'm not so sure he is, though.

Overrated, bad, fine. Either one is ridiculous.

I'm not objecting to the idea of giving up on a show that doesn't interest us (everyone does it), I'm objecting to the idea of making claims about the quality of a show based on the fact that it didn't interest us after a tiny bit of exposure.

The irrationality of that is not dependent on whether or not the gripes are justified or whether or not they continue to occur in reality. The issue is that he has no way of knowing how the series will progress, but has decided on a conclusion anyways. Which either suggests that the gripes cannot be remedied and is unrecoverable after 15 minutes or that it is certain to continue. Both are unwarranted assumptions based on the information that he has.

15 minutes of a first hour-long episode is barely anything. It's not even the first act. The characters/premises aren't even introduced yet. That's barely any better (if at all) than looking at promo posters/trailers/clips, reading the premise, not being interested, and concluding that it's overrated.

It's even more ridiculous to make that assertion when his gripes about it from those first 15 minutes are based on his own level of engagement rather than anything outright terrible about what it does. Just the absence of an effective hook in the first fifteen minutes was all it took.

 

[Tkachuk4MVP]

Season 3 was too unbelievable with the Hamsterdam aspect

People always say this, but that Hamsterdam experiment has been attempted in real life and CJA scholars like David Kennedy have advocated for something similar to be implemented.

 

[The Macho King]

I’d stick with it. But I warn you AJ doesn’t get any better and Janice makes you want to blow your brains out as well.

As for Breaking Bad. I liked it but I think it’s extremely overrated.

TBF that's kind of the whole point of her character.

But the Sopranos excels in the quiet moments, not the big set pieces. Big Mouth Billie Bass giving so much joy to these hardened criminals is hilarious. The Pine Barrens may be the best single episode of television in history, and it is largely a non-event. Paulie taking the painting of Pie o Mie and having it redone with Tony as Napoleon is... I mean, it's amazing. Johnny Sacks getting so pissed about people making fun of his fat wife...

It's rare you get mobsters with pathos. That's what makes the Sopranos great. It's not because it's a "mob" show. It's certainly not Goodfellas or Godfather. It's portraying "bad guys" as complex characters in their own right instead of having them be badass 24/7. Breaking Bad takes those moments and cheapens it. It goes from one "OMG WHAT JUST HAPPENED" plot to the next, and missed the quiet moments that made Sopranos watchable. The Shield suffers from this as well. The Sopranos has those moments, but it also gives you time to breathe and to connect with these characters.

The only show that properly understood those moments and made it great was the Wire. The Wire took that lesson and eliminated the bad acting of some of the secondary characters, and was better because of it. Most others that attempted to copy the Sopranos took the wrong lessons - the brooding anti-hero is one part of the formula - not the entirety.