Player Discussion The Slaf Thread - Parabolic Growth Edition

[FerrisRox]

They wont. They never did for Subban. They never did for Kovalev. They never did for Brisebois. Now obviously i don't think we should trade Slaf because of that i was obviously being sarcastic but KH will need to make sure Slaf underatand what is going on and shield himself from it. This can get very nasty i mean at one point Gainey had to call out the fans in the case of Brisebois.

They absolutely won't.

When this place took a dive, way back in the HFBroads debacle, the voices that replaced all of the solid, educated posters that left were a lot of very vocal "hot take" posters.

These posters - often dimwitted, unfortunately - behaved like radio call in bozos. They would take extreme, often ill-informed opinions and make endless, hyperbolic posts on certain players and they were always black or white, there was never any grey.

When they were inevitably proven to be wrong, they would simply go quiet, as if they never said these ridiculous things in the first place, and, even sadder, they wait for the player to have a bad game or a bad stretch and then shamelessly re-appear as if they were "right" all along.

There is a contingent of posters here that would rather be "right" then see the team succeed, so they would prefer that a player they said "sucked" continues to "suck" so they are correct, rather than admit they didn't know what the hell they were talking about.

Go back and read the thread where Jiri Sekac was traded. There were posters demanding the GM be fired for this trade.

Read the Charles Hudon threads, and all the posters that claimed the Canadiens were foolishly not giving enough ice time to this obviously great player.

We had a hockey genius in this group who announced that Jonathan Drouin was not an NHL calibre player and wouldn't receive another NHL contract after his Canadiens deal expired.

There was no shortage of people that told us Carey Price was "done" and he wasn't worth a fraction of his contract. Then he backstopped the team to the Stanley Cup Final and they fell silent.

What about all those wise pundits who told us that Brendan Gallagher and Josh Anderson needed to be bought out because they "sucked" and weren't NHL level anymore? Why have they got so quiet now? Where are the posts where they admit they were hilariously wrong?

We saw it last year with Slafkovsky, all the idiotic hot takes - about a 19 year old - sure got quiet when he produced very well in the second half of the season.

It goes on and on and very very few of them ever admit they were wrong. They can't help themselves and some of them seem to be incapable of feeling embarrassment.

 

[Tabarouette]

Here is what will really happen:

Slaf is 20, so will no doubt go through ups and downs because that is just normal. During the downs, the detractors will bombard this thread. They will blame Hughes for making a bad pick, say its a fireable offense, etc, etc.

During the ups, they will either go away (like the did last year), or come back half-apologetic, write some back-handed compliments, and still try to subtly argue that he isn't as good as he is (like they did last year).

framing yourself as this high and mighty figure that is better than others who aren't afraid to share opinions is not giving you the look you think it does

if he busts, your type will blame everyone but Slaf for what happened to save face, they did for every bust we've had

 

[Hacketts]

They absolutely won't.

When this place took a dive, way back in the HFBroads debacle, the voices that replaced all of the solid, educated posters that left were a lot of very vocal "hot take" posters.

These posters - often dimwitted, unfortunately - behaved like radio call in bozos. They would take extreme, often ill-informed opinions and make endless, hyperbolic posts on certain players and they were always black or white, there was never any grey.

When they were inevitably proven to be wrong, they would simply go quiet, as if they never said these ridiculous things in the first place, and, even sadder, they wait for the player to have a bad game or a bad stretch and then shamelessly re-appear as if they were "right" all along.

There is a contingent of posters here that would rather be "right" then see the team succeed, so they would prefer that a player they said "sucked" continues to "suck" so they are correct, rather than admit they didn't know what the hell they were talking about.

Go back and read the thread where Jiri Sekac was traded. There were posters demanding the GM be fired for this trade.

Read the Charles Hudon threads, and all the posters that claimed the Canadiens were foolishly not giving enough ice time to this obviously great player.

We had a hockey genius in this group who announced that Jonathan Drouin was not an NHL calibre player and wouldn't receive another NHL contract after his Canadiens deal expired.

There was no shortage of people that told us Carey Price was "done" and he wasn't worth a fraction of his contract. Then he backstopped the team to the Stanley Cup Final and they fell silent.

What about all those wise pundits who told us that Brendan Gallagher and Josh Anderson needed to be bought out because they "sucked" and weren't NHL level anymore? Why have they got so quiet now? Where are the posts where they admit they were hilariously wrong?

We saw it last year with Slafkovsky, all the idiotic hot takes - about a 19 year old - sure got quiet when he produced very well in the second half of the season.

It goes on and on and very very few of them ever admit they were wrong. They can't help themselves and some of them seem to be incapable of feeling embarrassment.

100%

 

[ReHabs]

They absolutely won't.

When this place took a dive, way back in the HFBroads debacle, the voices that replaced all of the solid, educated posters that left were a lot of very vocal "hot take" posters.

These posters - often dimwitted, unfortunately - behaved like radio call in bozos. They would take extreme, often ill-informed opinions and make endless, hyperbolic posts on certain players and they were always black or white, there was never any grey.

When they were inevitably proven to be wrong, they would simply go quiet, as if they never said these ridiculous things in the first place, and, even sadder, they wait for the player to have a bad game or a bad stretch and then shamelessly re-appear as if they were "right" all along.

There is a contingent of posters here that would rather be "right" then see the team succeed, so they would prefer that a player they said "sucked" continues to "suck" so they are correct, rather than admit they didn't know what the hell they were talking about.

Go back and read the thread where Jiri Sekac was traded. There were posters demanding the GM be fired for this trade.

Read the Charles Hudon threads, and all the posters that claimed the Canadiens were foolishly not giving enough ice time to this obviously great player.

We had a hockey genius in this group who announced that Jonathan Drouin was not an NHL calibre player and wouldn't receive another NHL contract after his Canadiens deal expired.

There was no shortage of people that told us Carey Price was "done" and he wasn't worth a fraction of his contract. Then he backstopped the team to the Stanley Cup Final and they fell silent.

What about all those wise pundits who told us that Brendan Gallagher and Josh Anderson needed to be bought out because they "sucked" and weren't NHL level anymore? Why have they got so quiet now? Where are the posts where they admit they were hilariously wrong?

We saw it last year with Slafkovsky, all the idiotic hot takes - about a 19 year old - sure got quiet when he produced very well in the second half of the season.

It goes on and on and very very few of them ever admit they were wrong. They can't help themselves and some of them seem to be incapable of feeling embarrassment.

Would love to see you comment with this much interest and intensity about hockey and the Habs sometime.

 

[Andy]

framing yourself as this high and mighty figure that is better than others who aren't afraid to share opinions is not giving you the look you think it does

if he busts, your type will blame everyone but Slaf for what happened to save face, they did for every bust we've had

Well, I thought Drouin was a good acquisition, and when he developed into a tweener, I didn’t blame management or his usage and just accepted that this was his ceiling. I am not afraid to do it with Slaf.

Same with Barron. When he was traded I didn’t blame management for his lack of development. I said they have him opportunities to succed, he just never developed nhl level poise

He’s being given all the opportunity to work out his game at a reasonable pace without pressure. If he busts it’s because he just doesn’t have it.

Where I differ from many is that I think it’s way too earlier to see this slump as indication of busting. But that’s just me.

 

[Tabarouette]

Well, I thought Drouin was a good acquisition, and when he developed into a tweener, I didn’t blame management or his usage and just accepted that this was his ceiling. I am not afraid to do it with Slaf.

He’s being given all the opportunity to work out his game at a reasonable pace without pressure. If he busts it’s because he just doesn’t have it.

Where I differ from many is that I think it’s way too earlier to see this slump as indication of busting. But that’s just me.

i'm just saying, every other posts being just a complaint that everyone else only has hot takes is just as empty posting as those hot takes

that being said i'm also in that boat, we all are, why would I post something smart about his play in here if slafyszn is just gonna come in here and quote me to say something like "he's gonna be good."

why are we here really, wanna hang out?

 

[FerrisRox]

I am still genuinely interested in what you and @FerrisRox here believe explains why the blind side hits, turnovers and general sense he is reacting to plays.

I will reluctantly respond, because I suspect you might be trolling based on your odd double response (with two polar opposite reactions) to the same post earlier, but alas, I will take the bait.

I think two things are happening with Slafkovsky right now that are negatively affecting his play.

1) He is still adjusting to the fact that he no longer has a huge size and strength advantage over 95 percent of his opponents. I see him taking hits after making passes, or along the boards, where he seems genuinely surprised by the hit. Before the NHL, these hits would bounce off him or not even register. Now, playing exclusively against men and people his size or even larger, he needs to adapt to avoid taking this kind of contact where he never had to even give it much thought. This is very common with big teenagers that play in the league. The advantage their size afforded them at lower levels is not nearly as pronounced in the NHL, and they have to make adjustments. That's what Slaf is doing right now, but there are some hard (literally) lessons along the way. Once he matures a little, physically and mentally, he will be able to use his size and strength to his advantage again.

2) I see him very much trying to play a role and trying to execute a game plan, so he is "thinking" instead of reacting. He's trying not to make a mistake rather than trying to make a play sometimes, and this is slowing down his process and causing him to clutch his stick a little harder and spend a little too much time in his head. Again, this is very common with young players that are making the leap to the NHL and the North American pro game.

Neither of these things concern me at all, as I have said, they are extremely common for players of his ilk.

 

[Andy]

i'm just saying, every other posts being just a complaint that everyone else only has hot takes is just as empty posting as those hot takes

that being said i'm also in that boat, we all are, why would I post something smart about his play in here if slafyszn is just gonna come in here and quote me to say something like "he's gonna be good."

why are we here really, wanna hang out?

We can debate and share concerns but when we start throwing our revisionist terms like his success was all Cole and Nick mooching (which it wasn’t and which very very few said last year) and when we say he’s a low-IQ player, then I start to question.

The issue here is that much of the debate about Slaf isn’t just a purely intellectual endeavour but intimately tied to people wanting to justify their post draft reactions before they saw Slaf play a single game.

 

[FerrisRox]

Would love to see you comment with this much interest and intensity about hockey and the Habs sometime.

I've been posting here for well over twenty years.

It's posters like yourself that have caused my interactions on this forum to dwindle. I have no interest in the hot take water cooler types that don't know what they are talking about but think being the loudest makes them correct.

 

[Paddy17]

He's 20. Still a lot of runway. He'll have ups and downs. Development is not linear.

 

[Frankenheimer]

At this point KH should trade him there's no coming back from the fefans doghouse. Slaf is done in Montreal no matter what he does.

I get frustrated with very online fans too, but this is extreme. Don't worry about what a few fans say. The team is playing well and in playoff contention. Perfect environment for development...and patience. He's not hurting the team and often meaningfully contributes. It's good to get out of the habs echo chambre now and then. A few weeks ago, they were asking for MSL's head, and now nary a peep!

 

[ReHabs]

when we say he’s a low-IQ player, then I start to question.

I thought you said you laugh at it and dismiss it off-hand. Because you know better.

The issue here is that much of the debate about Slaf isn’t just a purely intellectual endeavour but intimately tied to people wanting to justify their post draft reactions before they saw Slaf play a single game.

What’s the likelihood you don’t know what’s happening in the hearts of other commentators and thus can’t tell for certain that everyone with whom you disagree has ulterior motives? 0.5%? 5%? 50%? 95%?

I've been posting here for well over twenty years.

It's posters like yourself that have caused my interactions on this forum to dwindle. I have no interest in the hot take water cooler types that don't know what they are talking about but thinking being the loudest makes them correct.

I’m sorry to have missed your prime. Surely you’d understand meta-whining and grandstanding about your personal virtue is obnoxious but I’m sure you have your reasons.

Insisting to interact with other commentators with such animus doesn’t make you look very reasonable either. Maybe you weren’t so grumpy before.

 

[Andy]

I thought you said you laugh at it and dismiss it off-hand. Because you know better.


What’s the likelihood you don’t know what’s happening in the hearts of other commentators and thus can’t tell for certain that everyone with whom you disagree has ulterior motives? 0.5%? 5%? 50%? 95%?


I’m sorry to have missed your prime. Surely you’d understand meta-whining and grandstanding about your personal virtue is obnoxious but I’m sure you have your reasons.

I wasn’t referring to you, but the fact that you felt it was pointed towards you speaks volume.

 

[admiralcadillac]

I honestly think Pezz has a better shot than Slaf.

That’s cool

 

[habdynasty]

I can’t remember the Pezz shot lol

 

[FerrisRox]

I’m sorry to have missed your prime. Surely you’d understand meta-whining and grandstanding about your personal virtue is obnoxious but I’m sure you have your reasons.

Insisting to interact with other commentators with such animus doesn’t make you look very reasonable either. Maybe you weren’t so grumpy before.

If you find me obnoxious, you can simply put me on ignore and you won't have to deal with it anymore.

 

[admiralcadillac]

Would love to see you comment with this much interest and intensity about hockey and the Habs sometime.

Mmk but you have posted a billion times about Slaf at this point, only reappearing when he’s going through a bad stretch.

You also just blatantly lie, as evidenced by your comment to the effect Slaf is the worst performing no. 1 in 25 years.

You know that is false, objectively. Why post it if not to get attention from people. You of course then curl up into a defensive ball and attack posters who get frustrated with your babbling and lies.

You should consider advising PP or better yet the Republican party!

 

[ReHabs]

I wasn’t referring to you, but the fact that you felt it was pointed towards you speaks volume.

Brilliant comment as always but I didn’t say you referred to me or anyone in particular. I asked how is it you purport to know the subtext of others’ comments.

I don’t know what your point is with all this meta commentary. It’s extremely unnecessary and irrelevant.

We have a lot of more interesting things to evaluate with all these players. Slafkovsky’s hockey IQ is a very interesting discussion that isn’t allowed to take place for some reason.

 

[Andy]

Brilliant comment as always but I didn’t say you referred to me or anyone in particular. I asked how is it you purport to know the subtext of others’ comments.

Because I’ve been on this board for almost 20 years and it’s the same story. When the draft dudes don’t get their way in June, they make life miserable for everyone on this board.

And it’s always the same names as in June 2022. Some know better to just stay quiet, but others can’t help themselves and reappear when its narratively convenient.

It’s exhausting because these folks are not participating in good faith. They are here to justify their own takes they made in haste without watching a player play a single game when they made them.

You come to their defense only because you are defending yourself

 

[ReHabs]

Mmk but you have posted a billion times about Slaf at this point, only reappearing when he’s going through a bad stretch.

"only reappearing" except for all the times I was normally appearing, sure.

You also just blatantly lie, as evidenced by your comment to the effect Slaf is the worst performing no. 1 in 25 years.

It wasn't a lie, I was wrong. I posted about it here. Calling me a blatant liar is unnecessary, don't you think? Can't a fella be wrong?

Slaf isn't the worst producing 1st in the past 25 years, he's bottom5 along with Patrik Stefan and Nail Yakupov. I was totally wrong.

You know that is false, objectively. Why post it if not to get attention from people. You of course then curl up into a defensive ball and attack posters who get frustrated with your babbling and lies

You should consider advising PP or better yet the Republican party!

Brilliant comment.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

No team is taking that contract for a first line player. Maybe another reclamation project.

Who are you and how have you hacked Et Le But’s account?

 

[Naslundforever]

I will reluctantly respond, because I suspect you might be trolling based on your odd double response (with two polar opposite reactions) to the same post earlier, but alas, I will take the bait.

I think two things are happening with Slafkovsky right now that are negatively affecting his play.

1) He is still adjusting to the fact that he no longer has a huge size and strength advantage over 95 percent of his opponents. I see him taking hits after making passes, or along the boards, where he seems genuinely surprised by the hit. Before the NHL, these hits would bounce off him or not even register. Now, playing exclusively against men and people his size or even larger, he needs to adapt to avoid taking this kind of contact where he never had to even give it much thought. This is very common with big teenagers that play in the league. The advantage their size afforded them at lower levels is not nearly as pronounced in the NHL, and they have to make adjustments. That's what Slaf is doing right now, but there are some hard (literally) lessons along the way. Once he matures a little, physically and mentally, he will be able to use his size and strength to his advantage again.

2) I see him very much trying to play a role and trying to execute a game plan, so he is "thinking" instead of reacting. He's trying not to make a mistake rather than trying to make a play sometimes, and this is slowing down his process and causing him to clutch his stick a little harder and spend a little too much time in his head. Again, this is very common with young players that are making the leap to the NHL and the North American pro game.

Neither of these things concern me at all, as I have said, they are extremely common for places of his ilk.

Cheers, I promise I was trying to steer us away from just jabbing and you make a much more compelling case (for me anyway) than « you guys clearly don’t watch the games so I am right. », sorry I was so triggered.

I do believe on his tools alone he was the right draft choice and will become much better than he is. His ceiling is still fuzzy to me at this point.

 

[ReHabs]

Because I’ve been on this board for almost 20 years and it’s the same story. When the draft dudes don’t get their way in June, they make life miserable for everyone on this board.

And it’s always the same names as in June 2022. Some know better to just stay quiet, but others can’t help themselves and reappear when its narratively convenient.

It’s exhausting because these folks are not participating in good faith. They are here to justify their own takes they made in haste without watching a player play a single game when they made them.

So you know better and you know what "these folks" are saying is not in good faith. And you dismiss their comments off-hand just like you dismiss those who claim Slafkovsky has bad hockey IQ. You laugh them off, because you know better and know there is no way "these folks" could ever post in good faith at any time. Seems like a devastatingly simple way to ensure you're always right.

You come to their defense only because you are defending yourself

I don't even know to whom you're referring. I like talking hockey, I talk excessively sometimes. I get things wrong, like I did when I said Slaf was the worst producing 1OA in the past 25 years... he is only bottom5. I was wrong there.

I like applying analysis and paradigm to analyse hockey players and performance. I like coming up with new ones to describe what I see on the ice. I like to read discussion of on-ice events and see if I see what a poster claims to see. Slaf has a lot of different takes and I don't give a damn if someone liked or disliked his draft profile, it's what is happening today that is much more interesting.

 

[FerrisRox]

Cheers, I promise I was trying to steer us away from just jabbing and you make a much more compelling case (for me anyway) than « you guys clearly don’t watch the games so I am right. », sorry I was so triggered.

I do believe on his tools alone he was the right draft choice and will become much better than he is. His ceiling is still fuzzy to me at this point.

I wasn't trying to "trigger" you. I find it difficult to believe that anyone could regularly watch Juraj Slafkovsky play and come to the conclusion that he has bad hockey IQ.

For me, that is a huge red flag in terms of taking someone's opinion on a hockey player seriously, with all due respect.

I don't even know to whom you're referring. I like talking hockey, I talk excessively sometimes. I get things wrong, like I did when I said Slaf was the worst producing 1OA in the past 25 years... he is only bottom5. I was wrong there.

Are we just supposed to go along with the idea that he's bottom five based on the chart you posted?

Your "chart" is comparing all of those players after three years in the NHL. You've "projected" Slafkovsky's totals for his third season, and then announced he's bottom 5.

Is this a joke?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Some people aren't stubborn, though, and can admit when they are wrong. That doesn't make them hypocrites. I was wrong about Hutson needing AHL time, and I am happy I was wrong. We are all Habs fans at the end of the day.

I wanted Hutson to play AHL as well but I also said, you find this out in camp. I find that the more I get older, the more I side on the conservative side of things. I rather have the young player prove me wrong than being gullibly wrong.