Speculation: The search for a new Head Coach - Rumors and Speculation

One of the most interesting things to me with Quenneville is the effect on Verbeek. This would be a controversial hiring, and thus risky for his own job. Essentially, he's putting his job on the line for Quenneville.

If it goes south in two years or less, that will reflect very poorly on Verbeek. It would not only be another failure at hiring coaches, but the added stress from the controversial hiring would probably put his job at serious risk. If he hires Woodcroft, for example, and that doesn't work out in that time period, Verbeek is probably safe.

That is interesting, although I see it playing out the opposite way. I think that if the current coach fails in the next two-three years, that's it for Verbeek anyway. Sure, this is technically only his second head coaching hire, but after Cronin went so poorly, if the team continues to miss the playoffs, I think Verbeek is done.

So it almost incentivizes him to just go for it. Verbeek might see it as not mattering whether it's Quenneville or Woodcroft or Carle, if the guy doesn't get the team into the postseason in the next two years, he's toast. In that case, why not deal with the extra scrutiny? If Q is the guy who can get the team there, it will mean Verbeek's job is probably safe.
 
I remember reading Fleury's memoir years ago when it first came out, which was revealing, but the biggest takeaway for me from it (not related to the abuse) as someone who was too young to remember his tenure here was how much of a moron he thought Pierre Page was.

Who's on the Ducks terrible coach Mt. Rushmore? Pierre Page has got to be a prime candidate, as does the recently departed Greg Cronin. Dallas Eakins is another. Guy Charon? Craig Hartsburg? Randy Carlyle Part Deux was awful, but he won a Cup with them and also managed not to screw up their run to the conference finals.
 
Carlyle's 111-74-35 record in his 2nd go-around which includes a trip to the WCF and 2 playoff appearances deserves to be included on that list ??
 
One of the most interesting things to me with Quenneville is the effect on Verbeek. This would be a controversial hiring, and thus risky for his own job. Essentially, he's putting his job on the line for Quenneville.

If it goes south in two years or less, that will reflect very poorly on Verbeek. It would not only be another failure at hiring coaches, but the added stress from the controversial hiring would probably put his job at serious risk. If he hires Woodcroft, for example, and that doesn't work out in that time period, Verbeek is probably safe.
This is where I'm at also. I understand Verbeek seems to be the kind of guy who does what he wants and doesn't care what people think about it. But for him, is he so married to the idea of Q as head coach that he's willing to stake his entire reputation on it? If he does hire him, if it's not a total home run, i.e. massive improvement, consistent playoff success after a few years, then it's a huge stain on not only him but the organization. Is it really worth the risk? Same could be said for the Samuelis too, I suppose.
 
Carlyle's 111-74-35 record in his 2nd go-around which includes a trip to the WCF and 2 playoff appearances deserves to be included on that list ??

He was awful. He had a roster that was aging somewhat, yes, but it was still incredibly talented. Carlyle inspired such disgust among the players that Bob Murray himself had to come down to finish his tenure, and Perry cared so little about hockey in Anaheim he had to be bought out. Carlyle sucked the joy out of the franchise and helped usher in the current age of despair. I don't think he'd make the Mt. Rushmore, even if we ignored his first stint completely, but he certainly deserves consideration.
 
That is interesting, although I see it playing out the opposite way. I think that if the current coach fails in the next two-three years, that's it for Verbeek anyway. Sure, this is technically only his second head coaching hire, but after Cronin went so poorly, if the team continues to miss the playoffs, I think Verbeek is done.

So it almost incentivizes him to just go for it. Verbeek might see it as not mattering whether it's Quenneville or Woodcroft or Carle, if the guy doesn't get the team into the postseason in the next two years, he's toast. In that case, why not deal with the extra scrutiny? If Q is the guy who can get the team there, it will mean Verbeek's job is probably safe.
I'll disagree with this only because of how the Samuelis operate. The only GM they fired was for personal reasons, not on ice performance, even though they probably could have at some point. Personally, I don't know that Verbeek is on the hot seat if the team doesn't turn into a legit contender over the next few seasons. If he continues to build the organization, even if the team underachieves, I could see him staying longer term.
 
I'll disagree with this only because of how the Samuelis operate. The only GM they fired was for personal reasons, not on ice performance, even though they probably could have at some point. Personally, I don't know that Verbeek is on the hot seat if the team doesn't turn into a legit contender over the next few seasons. If he continues to build the organization, even if the team underachieves, I could see him staying longer term.

I hear you and until this point would have whole-heartedly agreed. But they just allowed a GM to fire a coach with a year left on his deal for the first time since they've owned the team (I don't think that was the case with Boudreau - I think Boudreau's contract was not renewed).

I think the Samuelis want a winner sooner rather than later. Maybe that has something to do with OC Vibe, I don't know. But I was surprised they greenlit Cronin's firing. I wouldn't be surprised if they gave Verbeek the heave-ho in two years if his next coaching hire doesn't work out, whomever that ends up being.
 
I hear you and until this point would have whole-heartedly agreed. But they just allowed a GM to fire a coach with a year left on his deal for the first time since they've owned the team (I don't think that was the case with Boudreau - I think Boudreau's contract was not renewed).

I think the Samuelis want a winner sooner rather than later. Maybe that has something to do with OC Vibe, I don't know. But I was surprised they greenlit Cronin's firing. I wouldn't be surprised if they gave Verbeek the heave-ho in two years if his next coaching hire doesn't work out, whomever that ends up being.
Definitely wasn’t the first time in their tenure. Randy was twice fired mid-season and that’s incorrect on Boudreau. Eakins is the only coach they’ve not fired before his deal was up, which isn’t that weird given how the NHL works.
 
Who's on the Ducks terrible coach Mt. Rushmore? Pierre Page has got to be a prime candidate, as does the recently departed Greg Cronin. Dallas Eakins is another. Guy Charon? Craig Hartsburg? Randy Carlyle Part Deux was awful, but he won a Cup with them and also managed not to screw up their run to the conference finals.
cronin, page, and eakins for sure. they were pretty awful under bryan murray in 01-02 and charron was just an interim i think, so i'll give the edge to murray although he didn't have much to work with that season
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ducks DVM
I'll disagree with this only because of how the Samuelis operate. The only GM they fired was for personal reasons, not on ice performance, even though they probably could have at some point. Personally, I don't know that Verbeek is on the hot seat if the team doesn't turn into a legit contender over the next few seasons. If he continues to build the organization, even if the team underachieves, I could see him staying longer term.

Im with you. I think the days of each GM essentially getting 2 HC hires are long gone. Cronin wasnt a win but it wasnt horrid either when you look at the improvements. He wasnt right to continue but I do think there were some positives from it. If Beeker hired a new guy, not named Q, and it didnt work out, I dont see that being the end of the road for him as long as there are still positive achievements. At least not on that alone.

If Q is his next hire and it all goes horribly, that I could see being the end of Beeker. Hitching your wagon to a reclamation project that has organizational ramifications if it goes poorly.
 
He was awful. He had a roster that was aging somewhat, yes, but it was still incredibly talented. Carlyle inspired such disgust among the players that Bob Murray himself had to come down to finish his tenure, and Perry cared so little about hockey in Anaheim he had to be bought out. Carlyle sucked the joy out of the franchise and helped usher in the current age of despair. I don't think he'd make the Mt. Rushmore, even if we ignored his first stint completely, but he certainly deserves consideration.
Couldn’t disagree more but to each his own. It doesn’t belong anywhere near it.
 
Im with you. I think the days of each GM essentially getting 2 HC hires are long gone. Cronin wasnt a win but it wasnt horrid either when you look at the improvements. He wasnt right to continue but I do think there were some positives from it. If Beeker hired a new guy, not named Q, and it didnt work out, I dont see that being the end of the road for him as long as there are still positive achievements. At least not on that alone.

If Q is his next hire and it all goes horribly, that I could see being the end of Beeker. Hitching your wagon to a reclamation project that has organizational ramifications if it goes poorly.

FWIW, Im not trying to defend Cronin or start a debate there. I think he addressed some of the issues that were present from Eakins time here, ie accountability issues. And I agree he would be on the Mt Rushmore of bad Ducks coaches.
 
Definitely wasn’t the first time in their tenure. Randy was twice fired mid-season and that’s incorrect on Boudreau. Eakins is the only coach they’ve not fired before his deal was up, which isn’t that weird given how the NHL works.

You might be right on Boudreau. I thought that his deal was up but perhaps not. The Carlyle midseason firings don't meet the criteria, though.

I guess I'm in the minority, but I would be surprised if Verbeek gets another coaching hire if this one fails to get the team to the postseason, barring some crazy extenuating circumstances. To me, the Cronin firing means the Samuelis want to win now. I think this one is really important for Verbeek to get right.
 
I hear you and until this point would have whole-heartedly agreed. But they just allowed a GM to fire a coach with a year left on his deal for the first time since they've owned the team (I don't think that was the case with Boudreau - I think Boudreau's contract was not renewed).

I think the Samuelis want a winner sooner rather than later. Maybe that has something to do with OC Vibe, I don't know. But I was surprised they greenlit Cronin's firing. I wouldn't be surprised if they gave Verbeek the heave-ho in two years if his next coaching hire doesn't work out, whomever that ends up being.

Boudreau had one additional year on his contract. He was fired in 2016 after signing an extension through 2016-17.


Carlyle may also have had remaining term on his contract, though that is unclear since his extension included an "option". Unclear if the option vested or whose option it was.

 
I've been keeping my opinions to myself, I don't want to get worked up over nothing if he isn't hired. But it's definitely a tricky situation.

- **Patrick Kane (Chicago Blackhawks)**:
- On development: “He gave me a lot of freedom to play my game, but also taught me how to play the right way defensively. That balance helped me become the player I am.” (Source: Chicago Tribune, 2018, discussing Quenneville’s influence on his Hart Trophy-winning career).
Zegras is reading this like "WAIT, a coach can do both?!"

Samuel's could have been suspicious of Murray but had no reason to do anything. I have a few chronic alcoholics in my family and one of the trademarks is their face being red. Murray's face was visibly red in same way as one of my uncles in many past draft days and interviews over the years. It got more noticeable in his last few years as GM.
I've been sober for almost five years, but I was a heavy alcoholic and I can say for a good ten years I was able to be intoxicated 24/7 and keep it from my employers. It definitely can be done and be hidden, but only for so long, as Murray found out.

I accidentally (physically) bumped into him at a Ducks game while he was still GM. He looked visibly annoyed at me but more memorable than that, his face for real looked like a tomato. I saw him again at the last NHL draft as there was a procession of coaches and front office staff walking outside the Sphere to their team busses. For whatever it's worth, he didn't look red to me.

I don't mean to steal your thunder BUT, he peed in the urinal next to me at the rookie face off in Phoenix in 2021. I recall his face looking a bit red.

Also worth noting that facial tissue can go red in the cold aka ice rinks.
I agree the red face could definitely be from the cold or some other issue, but for awhile I was a bartender on the grand terrace when it opened and one night BM came in after to have a conversation with someone and yeah that dude could put them back.
 
You might be right on Boudreau. I thought that his deal was up but perhaps not. The Carlyle midseason firings don't meet the criteria, though.

I guess I'm in the minority, but I would be surprised if Verbeek gets another coaching hire if this one fails to get the team to the postseason, barring some crazy extenuating circumstances. To me, the Cronin firing means the Samuelis want to win now. I think this one is really important for Verbeek to get right.
I kind of misread but Carlyle still applies in one instance. He actually had two(and a half) years left on his deal the first time he was fired. The overall point being this isn’t a deal-breaker and it’s actually not that common to let a coach just play out his last year on his deal without an extension, although you’re seeing it more and more. They let Verbeek do it so I doubt there’s much grief.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ducks DVM
1. Yeah no shit I'm worked up about it. I find even the proposition that this man might be our coach to be abhorrent. If others feel less strongly than I do that's their business. This is very serious to me as someone who has always been extremely critical of the Blackhawks regarding this scandal and the NHL's limp dick response in "punishing" them. Hiring a man who was at the center of the scandal directly conflicts with my values and has me considering withdrawing my support for the team until Q is gone, if he does indeed become coach. As for the facts we can take that one at a time.

2. I'm not mischaracterizing anything. I read the report carefully and I've adjusted my language accordingly. Yes he maybe didn't know about a sexual assault before Aldridge was let go. He was, however, advised of unwanted sexual advances by a member of his staff on a young man (20 years old) in his care. That should be enough to trigger a deeper investigation than what the Blackhawks ended up doing.

3A. They didn't say it explicitly but when the team met to discuss what to do about the reports they'd received just after clinching a cup win, the discussion was tinged with lamentations on if they were to act too harshly against Aldridge, e.g. suspending him or asking the players questions, it might create a distraction that would impact the team's play during the Stanley Cup final. Quenneville was one of the individuals who voiced such a lamentation.

3B. And that makes it better? Again these are kids we're talking about. Kids who were under his care and supervision among others. Are you really trying to make the argument that potential sexual harassment against young men warrants less immediate and diligent investigation than potential sexual assault against young men? I doubt you are but the implication here is pretty damning.

4. It's not supported by evidence and I made that fairly clear. I suspect he knew because so many of his players reported to the investigators that they'd heard rumors of sexual activity between Beach and Aldridge. That much smoke around the locker room and all of it missed the head coach? I doubt it. But I wouldn't say it's impossible. What I can say is I don't believe the Jenner and Block report has all the information. That's dependent on everyone who spoke with them about the incident relaying 100% accurate and 100% truthful recollection of events that had transpired more than ten years before the investigation. I really doubt that occurred.

5. Again, I don't see why that disclaims Quenneville's opportunity to do more for a young man in his care.

6. You're right, I conflated being under drinking age with the age of minority and that was an embarassing mistake. They're still young men who were, at least to the knowledge of the Blackhawks brass, being subjected to sexual harassment from an individual with power over them. Irrespective of my thoughtless word choice, the distinction between known harassment and unknown sexual assault, to me, doesn't really absolve the inaction. These were more vulnerable individuals and there could have been more impropriety than mere harassment at play. The Blackhawks never really found out because they collectively decided they'd let hockey ops handle it separately and in a manner that wouldn't intrude upon and distract the players playing in the cup finals. Quenneville was in favor of those limitations, and those limitations resulted in additional offenses because the organization didn't take it seriously enough.

7. I never said it was but his words facilitated conditions that led to inaction and half-measures that resulted in additional harms.

8. I mean. A little half baked, but sure. You think it's fine that he just passed the buck and let the cards play out in the hands of others. I think he bore more responsibility than that and is probably lying about how much he actually knew. Whether he did or not, I find his inaction to be despicable.

9. And it will likely be entirely spin on how much Quenneville has learned and grown from his mistakes and ready to move forward. Some might buy that. Some might not. For me personally I have my take on what happened and I don't want that history intermingling with the team's image, their identity, or their value system and I don't believe I personally can separate the two. If others can, more power to em. I'm not voicing my concerns to dictate to others how they should react to the potential hiring or the hiring should it transpire. That's their business, that's their decisions. But with my own value system and my utter disgust at the totality of the Aldridge scandal I want my team to have no part of it even indirectly. I am deeply concerned about it coming to pass and frankly have few IRL people to talk about it so I've been coming here to vent and vocalize my concern. If others change their feelings on the matter because of what I've said, so what? If others don't care and think I'm being a dork for being so concerned about this, so what?
That is basically a lot of words which boil down to "yes I'm very emotional about this and therefore I'm using hyperbolic and loaded language to exaggerate my point."

I think it bears mentioning that the Blackhawks fired Beach less than a month after the meeting. Technically he was given the option of resigning or being fired. By corporate standards, that is pretty fast.

So the "inaction" was essentially: (i) not immediately suspending Aldrich; and (ii) not following up with a full internal report to determine potential victims. In my view, (ii) is far more serious as they essentially tried to sweep everything under the rug. The blame for that falls on upper management IMO.
 
I think it bears mentioning that the Blackhawks fired Beach less than a month after the meeting. Technically he was given the option of resigning or being fired. By corporate standards, that is pretty fast.

You mean Aldrich.

I thought they gave him the option of re-signing or be *investigated*. Essentially, go away and we're all off the hook. They knew something happened (and according to Sopel everyone did), they just wanted deniability.

And of course in doing so he was able to secure subsequent jobs and victimize more people. It wasn't until Beach filed suit that it came to light that the Hawks knew something was wrong.
 
  • Like
Reactions: la patineuse
1. That is basically a lot of words which boil down to "yes I'm very emotional about this and therefore I'm using hyperbolic and loaded language to exaggerate my point."

2. I think it bears mentioning that the Blackhawks fired Beach less than a month after the meeting. Technically he was given the option of resigning or being fired. By corporate standards, that is pretty fast.

3. So the "inaction" was essentially: (i) not immediately suspending Aldrich; and (ii) not following up with a full internal report to determine potential victims. In my view, (ii) is far more serious as they essentially tried to sweep everything under the rug. The blame for that falls on upper management IMO.
1. That's cherry picking my response and you know it. I didn't exaggerate anything aside from whether Beach and Black Ace 1 were minors as opposed to under the drinking age and that was a mental lapse rather than an intentional obfuscation of facts to exaggerate my point. I could just as easily dissect your reading of the Jenner and Block report as intentionally giving credence to some facts over others while ignoring factual inconsistencies in factual testimony given by unreliable sources who have a vested interest in protecting their own reputations as you simply attempting to dull and diminish any current and future backlash and controversy whether any of it is justified or not. Multiple parties within the Jenner and Block report attested to Quenneville not only attending the May 23, 2010 meeting but vocally advocated against taking serious action that would be a distraction to the team or at the very least bemoaned that too much noise from pursuing investigation would lead to an adverse effect on the ice. Like @Ducks DVM said, it's very likely that with the number of reports setting forth these facts outnumbering Quenneville conflicting statements, it's highly likely that he was lying and continued to lie when asked by the media about his involvement. You seem to be cherry picking passages of the report to present a picture that paints Quenneville in the most optimal light, so who are you to lecture me about my motivations, exactly?

Also if my using too many words is such a problem , you're free to not engage with me.

2. That hurts the case against those involved, it doesn't help. They referred it to HR and hockey ops who didn't do an in depth investigation and instead figured the baseline impropriety they were aware of and could confirm was enough cause to ask him to quietly separate from the team. E.g. They kept it hushed up even after they won the cup and there was no longer a risk of "distraction" and tried to give themselves plausible deniability. The failure to investigate further disclaimed the potential for a subsequent criminal investigation, which would have likely brought embarrassment to the organization, and because no investigation was conducted, the full scope of Aldridge's criminality was never uncovered. Granted, I acknowledge that even if a police investigation was launched, Beach might have still withheld the truth, but by moving forward without a proper investigation, Aldridge's background check was free of relevant blemishes and he was able to get a job as a high school coach where he molested a minor. And yes, a minor high school kid. The inaction also failed to prevent Aldridge from sexually harassing a Blackhawks employee.

3. It's more than that. I'm not explaining this to you a hundred times. Again, though, you're cherry picking. Multiple parties present at the May 23, 2010 meeting attested that the victims and at least some of the misconduct were identified. Quenneville, at minimum, bemoaned that too much investigation would be a distraction from a potential cup win, if not directly asking that the matter be tabled until after the cup win.

I mean the picture you're trying to paint would render one wondering why Quenneville was suspended in the first place or in a position where he had to apologize. He clearly had some degree of influence over the failings of the organization to act appropriately under the circumstances. Trying to pass the buck entirely to upper management is weak. He knew that kids under his care were being subjected to inappropriate behavior and instead of encouraging prompt and comprehensive action to protect them, he-at minimum-pissed and moaned that the situation might lose him a cup ring. A sentiment seemingly shared by everyone involved given that no one really did anything until after the cup win and by that point, they did the bare f***ing minimum.
 
Last edited:
I'll disagree with this only because of how the Samuelis operate. The only GM they fired was for personal reasons, not on ice performance, even though they probably could have at some point. Personally, I don't know that Verbeek is on the hot seat if the team doesn't turn into a legit contender over the next few seasons. If he continues to build the organization, even if the team underachieves, I could see him staying longer term.

I agree and it is probably not lost on the Samuelis that they would be signing Quenneville at a substantial discount over what a non-damaged goods Quenneville would cost.

There is also a corporate/business perspective of operating within industry standards.

In business people who get fired for inappropriate behavior, but not criminal, move on to other jobs without repercussions other than giving explanations during interviews.

It is a business pure and simple. The industry banned Quenneville for 3 years and then removed the ban. There is no indication that he has engaged in this type of cover-up since then, and maybe he is less likely going forward.

From a corporate perspective, it is merely weighing the pros and cons and making a decision. I would guess many would be shocked by some of the people that sit on the boards of major corporations.

All of this is operating outside the correct moral stance associated with this hire.

John
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Ad

Ad