Speculation: The search for a new Head Coach - Rumors and Speculation

[Hey234]

I am surprised about the amount of interest in coaches who have no experience in the NHL or only assistant experience. I get the allure of high risk, high reward but why do the Ducks need that type of coach?

All season, many - including myself - said with even average coaching, this would be a playoff team. Why do the Ducks need someone risky? It takes everyone, even superstars, time to adjust to new environments. It is much more likely that someone like Carle will need a season or so to figure things out. To me, that risk is not worth it because if it doesn't work out, that another few years wasted.

There is very little risk in an established NHL coach being able to provide, at minimum, average coaching which should result in making the playoffs.

 

[Rybread86]

I am surprised about the amount of interest in coaches who have no experience in the NHL or only assistant experience. I get the allure of high risk, high reward but why do the Ducks need that type of coach?

All season, many - including myself - said with even average coaching, this would be a playoff team. Why do the Ducks need someone risky? It takes everyone, even superstars, time to adjust to new environments. It is much more likely that someone like Carle will need a season or so to figure things out. To me, that risk is not worth it because if it doesn't work out, that another few years wasted.

There is very little risk in an established NHL coach being able to provide, at minimum, average coaching which should result in making the playoffs.

For me, its the Bruce scenario. Proven coach, likely to get you into the playoffs but then what? Im not looking for the next coach to only get us into the playoffs in the short term. Im looking at/for someone who can develop the young guys and after a year or two, start making some real waves in the playoffs. Safe hires may get you into the playoffs, but after that?

I think the other thing too, is trying to find the next John Cooper. Someone who can be a mainstay in the Org for 10-15 years instead of firing up a new HC Hunting thread every other season. Not easy to find, but even harder to find with a retread NHL HC.

It doesnt have to be Carle, but it also can be Carle. And lets be honest, even if you went with someone with NHL HC experience, doesnt mean they are going to work out either. Maybe those guys wont have as much of a learning curve, but that also means the expectations of those individuals should be higher.

If the guy has the chops and the support, Im not worried about the experience. A 36 year old with no NHL HC experience doesnt concern me as much as a 65 year old with no NHL HC experience. Ultimately its about fit. And Ill just keep using Carle as the example even though I dont really have a list of guys in any particular order, but a young guy like that or at least a guy coming from a program with young kids and prospects is going to be able to relate to a younger teams easier than a retread in many cases.

Woodcroft might still fit the bill, but many concerns revolve around his time in EDM and the weapons he had. Hiring him in Anaheim, you would get to see what level of coach he really is, instead of being in charge of a team that already has bonafide superstars.

As long as they dont hire anyone from the "Ah hell no" list of candidates, I wont really be upset either way.

 

[Mr Rogers]

Definitely one of the better candidates.

Sturm always seemed like a player coach for German teams and I'm sure he has had a huge influence on the whole country's rise in the grand scheme of hockey. I could see him being on Pat's radar. I would describe him the least risky of the young coaches.

Earlier mentions: Jussi Ahokas is very new to NA and does not have enough of a track record. Never going to get hired by a GM who is starting to feel some pressure.

Now Carle, it would depend on the freedom and say he gets regarding assistant coaches, term. Essentially the whole program would be his for up to 5 years and on top of that he would have to be paid like a top coach. Ideal situation for both parties but he is unknown to the general public so I imagine Pat considers him a quite risky hire. But honestly, Pat has shown quite often to be able to think outside the box.

It's crazy how far Germany has come in hockey. There was a time when Sturm was their best and most notable player (all respect to him). Now you've got names like Draisaitl, Stuetzle, Seider etc. Switzerland is impressive as well.

I'm assuming Sturm would be a very organized systems and processes-oriented coach which could be really good for the Ducks

 

[pesko]

I'm bullish on Ahokas being a NHL head coach some day, and it might be sooner than people think. His style and the way he thinks about the game is a natural fit to the league, more so than for some other European coaches.

I've followed his coaching career for a long time, and he's struck me as a smart and adaptive coach, who has the ability to change the way he works with the team, and not try to force it the other way around. His consistent track record in very different contexts from professional teams to junior international hockey is indicative of that as well.

It's too early for him now, next step is likely AHL head coach or NHL assistant position. I wouldn't mind it if the Ducks were keeping and eye on him.

 

[Hey234]

For me, its the Bruce scenario. Proven coach, likely to get you into the playoffs but then what? Im not looking for the next coach to only get us into the playoffs in the short term. Im looking at/for someone who can develop the young guys and after a year or two, start making some real waves in the playoffs. Safe hires may get you into the playoffs, but after that?

I think the other thing too, is trying to find the next John Cooper. Someone who can be a mainstay in the Org for 10-15 years instead of firing up a new HC Hunting thread every other season. Not easy to find, but even harder to find with a retread NHL HC.

It doesnt have to be Carle, but it also can be Carle. And lets be honest, even if you went with someone with NHL HC experience, doesnt mean they are going to work out either. Maybe those guys wont have as much of a learning curve, but that also means the expectations of those individuals should be higher.

If the guy has the chops and the support, Im not worried about the experience. A 36 year old with no NHL HC experience doesnt concern me as much as a 65 year old with no NHL HC experience. Ultimately its about fit. And Ill just keep using Carle as the example even though I dont really have a list of guys in any particular order, but a young guy like that or at least a guy coming from a program with young kids and prospects is going to be able to relate to a younger teams easier than a retread in many cases.

Woodcroft might still fit the bill, but many concerns revolve around his time in EDM and the weapons he had. Hiring him in Anaheim, you would get to see what level of coach he really is, instead of being in charge of a team that already has bonafide superstars.

As long as they dont hire anyone from the "Ah hell no" list of candidates, I wont really be upset either way.

I think it's a fair argument, and I agree with your general philosophy. I too would rather hire the next Cooper type coach who lasts 10-15 years as well. The problem is that it is like hoping you draft the next Crosby or McDavid: it's always possible but unlikely.

Yes, a guy like Woodcroft is probably not going to be that type of coach. But I also think the Ducks aren't ready to compete at a Stanley Cup level yet, and I see no harm in having a coach that can reliably take them to the playoffs. In fact, I think it's better for the development of the young players to have that stability now to become the players we hope they'll be.

 

[Rybread86]

I think it's a fair argument, and I agree with your general philosophy. I too would rather hire the next Cooper type coach who lasts 10-15 years as well. The problem is that it is like hoping you draft the next Crosby or McDavid: it's always possible but unlikely.

Yes, a guy like Woodcroft is probably not going to be that type of coach. But I also think the Ducks aren't ready to compete at a Stanley Cup level yet, and I see no harm in having a coach that can reliably take them to the playoffs. In fact, I think it's better for the development of the young players to have that stability now to become the players we hope they'll be.

Agreed. No, its not likely you are going to find that next Cooper, but I think you can increase your chances by targeting hires appropriately.

Are the Ducks 2 years away from Cup contention? No. Are they 4 years away? Id argue, yes, or at least they can be. And while i understand the whole "average tenure" of a HC thing, doesnt mean thats what you should shoot for, or be OK with. I think regardless, the next coach is going to be better for overall player development. I would assume that would be high up on the list of must haves for the next coach.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I think it's a fair argument, and I agree with your general philosophy. I too would rather hire the next Cooper type coach who lasts 10-15 years as well. The problem is that it is like hoping you draft the next Crosby or McDavid: it's always possible but unlikely.

Yes, a guy like Woodcroft is probably not going to be that type of coach. But I also think the Ducks aren't ready to compete at a Stanley Cup level yet, and I see no harm in having a coach that can reliably take them to the playoffs. In fact, I think it's better for the development of the young players to have that stability now to become the players we hope they'll be.

Verbeek missed out on Carbury (Washington's head coach) two summers ago. Instead, Verbeek went with the much older rookie HC in Cronin.

 

[Mr Rogers]

I think generally people are way too conservative and risk-averse regarding stuff like free agents, trades and coaches but in our case there might be some legitimate scar tissue because of how the two previous guys, who came directly from the AHL, worked out. At the end of the day, it will be up to Pat to determine if another AHL guy or somebody in another lower league can do the job. But there's no doubt, finding somebody coaching in the AHL or college could hit big, whereas you know what you'll get with a retread. I personally see Pat settling for something in between.

Cronin was odd in that he was a first timer but probably didn't have a ton of upside and may have even been a conservative choice in some sense. He wasn't thought of as a hotshot coaching prospect and as far as i remember we were the only team that was interested.

 

[Rybread86]

Verbeek missed out on Carbury (Washington's head coach) two summers ago. Instead, Verbeek went with the much older rookie HC in Cronin.

Did he miss out though? I thought it was pretty widely known that Cadbury would be in WSH given his ties there.

 

[70sSanO]

My question about Knoblauch had to do with the Paul Maurice comments from last year.

Also the Oilers are about the worst organization in the league. Without McDavid and Draisaitl they wouldn’t be in the playoffs.

Their roster is absolutely junk and they constantly do stupid stuff like signing Skinner and letting Holloway walk. Granted Holloway was not setting things on fire last year, but Skinner is a real Hail Mary. But when you surround your HOF players with old over-the-hill vets you deserve to fall short.

John

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Did he miss out though? I thought it was pretty widely known that Cadbury would be in WSH given his ties there.

Carbery joined the Leafs as an assistant coach in 2021. In 2022, Carbery interviewed with the Sharks and didn't get hired. Then he interviewed with the Ducks in 2023.

Verbeek had the chance to nab Carbery early in the process on May 17th, 2023. But Verbeek fell in love with Cronin in their first convo, which would be roughly May 5th, 2023. Carbery signed with the Caps on May 30th.

From AP News, June 5th, 2023

 

[shach1]

My question about Knoblauch had to do with the Paul Maurice comments from last year.

Also the Oilers are about the worst organization in the league. Without McDavid and Draisaitl they wouldn’t be in the playoffs.

Their roster is absolutely junk and they constantly do stupid stuff like signing Skinner and letting Holloway walk. Granted Holloway was not setting things on fire last year, but Skinner is a real Hail Mary. But when you surround your HOF players with old over-the-hill vets you deserve to fall short.

John

What Mauruce comments?

 

[70sSanO]

What Mauruce comments?

He was really high on Knoblauch when he interviewed for an assistant. He felt Knoblauch was head coach material and not an assistant. I think he mentored Knoblauch also.

Not that Maurice has an overall stellar coaching record, but he really seems to connect with his players and is a good coach.

John

Edit Added: of course This is all speculation as Knoblauch isn’t, and may not be, available.

 

[SmokeyDuck]

He was really high on Knoblauch when he interviewed for an assistant. He felt Knoblauch was head coach material and not an assistant. I think he mentored Knoblauch also.

Not that Maurice has an overall stellar coaching record, but he really seems to connect with his players and is a good coach.

John

I think you are underselling Maurice a bit. Hes a great coach.

 

[SmokeyDuck]

He was really high on Knoblauch when he interviewed for an assistant. He felt Knoblauch was head coach material and not an assistant. I think he mentored Knoblauch also.

Not that Maurice has an overall stellar coaching record, but he really seems to connect with his players and is a good coach.

John

Edit Added: of course This is all speculation as Knoblauch isn’t, and may not be, available.

Also let us not forget that Sutter said Eakins would be a super star coach lol.

 

[70sSanO]

I think you are underselling Maurice a bit. Hes a great coach.

I agree. I did undersell Maurice. I really like him, but he’s going no where.

John

 

[FiveTacos]

Their roster is absolutely junk and they constantly do stupid stuff like signing Skinner and letting Holloway walk.

Or re-upping Henrique. Great rental, but you never buy the older rentals afterwards.

 

[Big Fat Rebound]

Man, Jon Cooper forgot how to coach. Needs to take a job 2500+ miles across the country in order to find it again .

 

[Anaheim4ever]

Man, Jon Cooper forgot how to coach. Needs to take a job 2500+ miles across the country in order to find it again .

Maybe his players have tuned him out because he's been there too long and they need someone new.
Ducks should swoop in and sign him if the Bolts fire him.

 

[70sSanO]

Man, Jon Cooper forgot how to coach. Needs to take a job 2500+ miles across the country in order to find it again .

Pat… “Jon, Jon, remember when I visited you in Syracuse in 2013? I told you that someday, and that day may never come, I will call upon you to do a service for me. That day has come.”

John

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

Pat… “Jon, Jon, remember when I visited you in Syracuse in 2013? I told you that someday, and that day may never come, I will call upon you to do a service for me. That day has come.”

John

Pat needs to leave a dolphin head in Coopers bed on their next road trip.

 

[Rybread86]

Carbery joined the Leafs as an assistant coach in 2021. In 2022, Carbery interviewed with the Sharks and didn't get hired. Then he interviewed with the Ducks in 2023.

Verbeek had the chance to nab Carbery early in the process on May 17th, 2023. But Verbeek fell in love with Cronin in their first convo, which would be roughly May 5th, 2023. Carbery signed with the Caps on May 30th.

From AP News, June 5th, 2023
View attachment 1021898

That doesn't mean anything. Correlation doesnt equal causation. You are talking weeks difference between Cronin being hired and Carbery going to WSH, so same hiring cycle.

The first part about leaving WSH system, going to TOR and interviewing in 2022... easily explainable. If he knew he wanted to be a NHL HC, he was likely told he needed experience and TOR had an opportunity for him. Many coaches interview with teams before they are actually ready to be a HC to get in reps. Its talked about frequently. So he left the Caps org to go get the experience he would need. Also, 2 years prior to his hiring it could have looked like it was going to be a while before WSH was going to be in need of a new HC.

And this is just like trades and FA when everyone gets all upset that their team doesnt land a guy and everyone wants to claim their GM sucks and he didnt actually try or that he passed on a guy for someone else. There has to be mutual interest and there are other suitors who will also be pursuing the candidate/player.

You have dates that paint a picture, you dont have the evidence that proves a theory, let alone disproves the notion that it was widely known/theorized that Cadbury was going to end up in WSH. Beeker could have interviewed Cadbury who in turn told him that he preferred to goto WSH where he knew the org and had familiarity with the players and personnel, in which case Beeker likely just cut him loose.

Maybe his missed out on Cadbury. Maybe he actually had an opportunity to hire the guy and passed. Or maybe Cadbury was just taking interviews so it didnt seem like he was just putting all his eggs in the WSH basket. The only coaches I think you can say Beeker definitely chose Cronin over, are the ones that werent hired by any team. Unless of course, you have more evidence of said claim.

 

[Static]

The coaching thing is tough because it's less a game of good vs bad than just a chemistry experiment. I really believe there are probably only a handful of guys who could conceivably have success anywhere. The rest of them is as much about fit as it is ability.

 

[zegrassyknoll]

Man, Jon Cooper forgot how to coach. Needs to take a job 2500+ miles across the country in order to find it again .

If they get swept I honestly do wonder if how safe his job is.

Have to imagine Yzerman would snap him up before Pat could, but VB may have some kind of a relationship with him.

Not even going to let myself begin this fantasy though.

 

[Terry Yake]

cooper signed an extension prior to this season i believe. don't think he's going anywhere