Speculation: The search for a new Head Coach - Rumors and Speculation

[eaterfan]

At best, this is severely and objectively mistaken. At worst, it is an antisemitic trope.

Some people here repeat this nonsense constantly. We were told that the ducks wouldn't fire Cronin because the ducks don't pay two coaches (even though they did that with BB and Carlyle). Then they fired Cronin. It is just another example, but it doesn't stop comments like this.

We were told the ducks wouldn't pay for expensive UFAs. Then we learn they offered the most $$ to Stamkos and Marchessault. After overpaying for Killorn and Strome.

The ducks traded for a very expensive third string goalie to play in the AHL picking up his high salary. Same for Trouba - they signed up for two expensive years when no other team in the league was willing to take his contract. They traded Fowler and retained for multiple years. Going back, they gave Perry and Getz massive contracts (Kesler and Gibson too)
.
They have spent massive $$ on the Honda center fan experience. They have spent extensively on youth hockey where the ROI is literally negative. They built the great park facility with private funds. They paid their employees during Covid when few (if any) other sports owners did. They have donated hundreds of millions of dollars to charity.

Yet you call them cheapskates? How exactly?

I will also add, they put their games on a free app and probably 85% of them are also on over the air free TV. I don't know how much they are getting from their Victory+ contract, but I'd be willing to bet they left a decent chunk of money on the table.

I love that, as a SoCal resident, I can watch all their games without it costing a dime.

 

[TheDarkWingThatDucks]

Regarding McIlvane, my understanding is that he was forced to stick with the main club's system to have guys prepared to jump in when needed. If the main club's system was completely rotten, we may not really know what they have in him just yet. I don't really know how much this plays into it when evaluating McIlvane's performance so far but with a better system with the main club, we may see McIlvane do much better with the Gulls or even with the Ducks if given the chance.

Just to be clear, this is message is not my push to nominate his name as the next HC.

Honestly, I like McIlvane as a coach. Seems like a players coach, who also pushes his team to play hard night in night out. Seems like a well spoken articulate dude.

Sidorov / Colangelo / Zelly / Luneau / Pasta / Judd / Gaucher / Nesty / Mysak / Hinds /even Myatovic (finished strong-ish)…. Even Solberg and Moore looked good in their 10ish games. All have been developing down there with him, back 2 back AHL all stars that seem to be mainstays on the NHL roster. I know Gaucher’s stats leave much to be desired, but he played a shutdown 3C role and from what I hear from actual people who watch more than the 5-7 Gulls games I did, he played really well in his role.

Now, I don’t think Verbeek can afford to miss on this coaching hire, so I don’t think he takes the gamble on MM, but all in all I think he’s doing a good job down in the AHL for us.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Wow I like how you highlighted hundreds of millions…. it almost looks like a lot of money.

I don’t expect the average Joe to understand business and making money. Maybe you can understand on the surface by watching movies like The Founder, or read a book like Rich Dad Poor Dad.

The fact is Samueli is a businessman who purchased the Anaheim Ducks in 2005 for $70 million and it’s estimated to be worth 1.3 billion… that’s nearly 20x on his investment. He has an instrument to write off expenses on “charities” and losses while having the perception of being a generous billionaire.

He’s now investing 4 billion on OCVIBE… yes that’s 3x the ducks valuation. If you think he isn’t counting his penny’s you are very naive, or he’s just doing a good job with marketing his generosity. There’s a reason why billionaires invest in things that are not expected… like how Musk wasted money on Twitter… it’s to influence the common man who doesn’t know better.

The $1.3 billion does not mean the Samueli's have hard cash on hand. It means the franchise is valued at $1.3 billion in 2025, after 20 years worth of growth. The owners would have to sell the team in order to see that money. As for actual cash, the Ducks have been bleeding monies if they don't make the playoffs. That means the Samueli's are dipping into their other businesses to supplement the losses the Ducks incur and are adamant on keeping the Ducks in Anaheim, even at a yearly cash loss.

Creating the OCVibe is another way the Samueli's can make up potential cash losses from owning the Ducks. In fact, many other sports franchises that don't have a downtown atmosphere are trying to develop their own downtown area around their stadium or sporting venue. The Ducks play only from Oct to Apr, or longer if they make the playoffs. And they only play at home half the time. What about when the Ducks are away or the summer months? The newly built Intuit Dome, where the LA Clippers call home, probably has drawn away some attractions from the Honda Center. This is where the OCVibe helps such that it can consistently generate business year round. That also means more people working year round.

People invest to make money, not lose money. Owning the Ducks is losing money yearly despite the value of the franchise going up. The Ducks have missed the playoffs for seven consecutive seasons, which means they've been losing cash for seven consecutive seasons. Their commitment to keeping the Ducks in Anaheim despite losing cash yearly should be commended. There were talks about the Ducks either ceasing to exists or being relocated before the Samueli's bought the franchise. Then they were bold enough to purchase the Gulls and literally dragged several franchises to move West and have a Pacific Division. Also, they created an atmosphere for hockey with the youths in buying up rinks around the OC as well as propping up high school leagues. That culminated into creating Great Park Ice, which will host some Olympic events in 2028 when it comes to LA.

The Samueli's are all in on the Ducks and the OC community. On the other side of the freeway, we got the Angels and owner Arte Moreno, who doesn't embrace the OC and focuses more on profits than improving the organization.

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

I’m not in favor of another rookie HC hiring.

If Carle were to be hired and bombs out? Yikes.

Just go with Woodcroft

 

[NWWisconsinDuck]

As much as I want Carle, and I really do, I can’t help but think Woodcroft or a Todd Nelson type is a safer choice.

Also, looks like Patrick Roy is also going to be available, at least I assume. Not that I think that’s necessarily a fit either

 

[Terry Yake]

As much as I want Carle, and I really do, I can’t help but think Woodcroft or a Todd Nelson type is a safer choice.

Also, looks like Patrick Roy is also going to be available, at least I assume. Not that I think that’s necessarily a fit either

in regards to carle, not sure he'd even be willing to leave denver right now. plus when's the last time a hotshot college coach actually found success at the NHL level? might have been his predecessor at denver montgomery. can't recall anyone else in recent memory

and kindly, f*** no to roy

 

[zegrassyknoll]

McIlvane throws an interesting wrench into the process.

Pat seems high on him and my guess is that he was lured over with some potential of a future HC role. Have to imagine hiring another coach that isn't somebody clearly in a "caretaker role" like Boudreau would feel like an existential threat to his shot at an HC role here and McIlvane would leave the org.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I’m not in favor of another rookie HC hiring.

If Carle were to be hired and bombs out? Yikes.

Just go with Woodcroft

I don't mind a rookie HC that has an offensive mindset. It's up to the GM to supplement that young HC with good veteran coaches. That's what Murray did after the COVID season for Eakins with the additions of former HC Geoff Ward as the PP coach, Newell Brown as the assistant to the PP coach, and old man Stothers, who was working the team Canada.

Carle isn't the only collegiate HC that there are feelers on. There is also Western Michigan's Ferschweiler, who won this year's NCAA Frozen Four. Ferschweiler helped Colangelo revive his goal scoring game and we just signed his former teammate in Washe. Carle is 35 years old and Ferschweiler is 55 years old.

Over half of Anaheim's roster is populated with youth. Four out of the six defensemen are youths. If Colangelo and Washe makes the team next year, then six of the 12 forwards could be the youth group, which doesn't include Terry. And we will probably get more youths to the NHL level.

Cronin was hired because Verbeek saw himself in Cronin. That was a terrible mistake. It took two years for Verbeek to figure this out. Let's hope Verbeek can learn from this mistake to make a hire that fits the team and not fit an avatar for Verbeek on the bench.

 

[mightyquack]

McIlvane throws an interesting wrench into the process.

Pat seems high on him and my guess is that he was lured over with some potential of a future HC role. Have to imagine hiring another coach that isn't somebody clearly in a "caretaker role" like Boudreau would feel like an existential threat to his shot at an HC role here and McIlvane would leave the org.

More likely to get an NHL gig if he sticks it out with the Gulls for another two to three seasons, especially as it seemed like he finally started finding his feet in the AHL the second half of this season and had the Gulls playing some good hockey.

 

[zegrassyknoll]

More likely to get an NHL gig if he sticks it out with the Gulls for another two to three seasons, especially as it seemed like he finally started finding his feet in the AHL the second half of this season and had the Gulls playing some good hockey.

Yeah that's fair. He probably won't get antsy for another year or two at least.

 

[Tony O]

The $1.3 billion does not mean the Samueli's have hard cash on hand. It means the franchise is valued at $1.3 billion in 2025, after 20 years worth of growth. The owners would have to sell the team in order to see that money. As for actual cash, the Ducks have been bleeding monies if they don't make the playoffs. That means the Samueli's are dipping into their other businesses to supplement the losses the Ducks incur and are adamant on keeping the Ducks in Anaheim, even at a yearly cash loss.

Creating the OCVibe is another way the Samueli's can make up potential cash losses from owning the Ducks. In fact, many other sports franchises that don't have a downtown atmosphere are trying to develop their own downtown area around their stadium or sporting venue. The Ducks play only from Oct to Apr, or longer if they make the playoffs. And they only play at home half the time. What about when the Ducks are away or the summer months? The newly built Intuit Dome, where the LA Clippers call home, probably has drawn away some attractions from the Honda Center. This is where the OCVibe helps such that it can consistently generate business year round. That also means more people working year round.

People invest to make money, not lose money. Owning the Ducks is losing money yearly despite the value of the franchise going up. The Ducks have missed the playoffs for seven consecutive seasons, which means they've been losing cash for seven consecutive seasons. Their commitment to keeping the Ducks in Anaheim despite losing cash yearly should be commended. There were talks about the Ducks either ceasing to exists or being relocated before the Samueli's bought the franchise. Then they were bold enough to purchase the Gulls and literally dragged several franchises to move West and have a Pacific Division. Also, they created an atmosphere for hockey with the youths in buying up rinks around the OC as well as propping up high school leagues. That culminated into creating Great Park Ice, which will host some Olympic events in 2028 when it comes to LA.

The Samueli's are all in on the Ducks and the OC community. On the other side of the freeway, we got the Angels and owner Arte Moreno, who doesn't embrace the OC and focuses more on profits than improving the organization.

Somewhat correct, but mostly wrong and incomplete. The Ducks aren’t losing money in a way that hurts the Samuelis. Their $164 million in revenue (Forbes data - revenue from 2023 I believe) keeps the team running, and small losses (like $3-5 million - that is a bit more hard to pinpoint) but nonetheless offset by huge tax savings from depreciation and write-offs, potentially saving $20-30 million a year. The $1.3 billion franchise value shows the team is a great investment, growing massively since 2005. Meanwhile, Anaheim Arena Management makes money from Honda Center events and will earn even more from the ocV!BE. The Samuelis use the Ducks strategically: the team’s “losses” save taxes, the arena brings in cash, and the whole setup makes their other businesses more profitable. It’s a smart financial plan, not a desperate struggle.

The Ducks sometimes show a loss on paper, like $3-5 million a year, because of how they account for expenses like player salaries, arena costs. These losses aren’t always actual cash they’re losing but numbers that help with taxes.

When the Samuelis bought the Ducks for $75 million in 2005, they could “depreciate” most of that value (say, 90%, or $67 million) over 15 years. This means they write off about $4.5 million a year as a tax deduction. For a franchise now worth $1.3 billion, a similar deal could let them deduct $78 million a year, saving them $27 million in taxes annually (at a 35% tax rate). This is called the Roster Depreciation Allowance and applies to things like player contracts.*

Playoffs do boost revenue. It something like each home game can generate $1-2 million, but the Ducks’ financial model doesn’t collapse without them. Their revenue grew $6 million from 2021/22 to 2022/23 ( again Forbes data), even during a losing season, the Ducks are financially resilient. Fan engagement remains good, with merchandise sales and pretty good and consistent attendance at Honda Center lessen losses.

The Samuelis are billionaires (worth over $25ish billion). A $5 million loss is pocket change for them.

I can't wait to see 3 page rebuttal, and please don't go off on a dissertation on how unreliable Forbes numbers are... They are reliable enough for this discussion, despite Forbes’ reliance on estimates. Because without audited financials, Forbes’ data is the best we’ve got. Oh well, I said my piece and I usually don't have time for this stuff but expect a looooong response... So flame away.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Somewhat correct, but mostly wrong and incomplete. The Ducks aren’t losing money in a way that hurts the Samuelis. Their $164 million in revenue (Forbes data - revenue from 2023 I believe) keeps the team running, and small losses (like $3-5 million - that is a bit more hard to pinpoint) but nonetheless offset by huge tax savings from depreciation and write-offs, potentially saving $20-30 million a year. The $1.3 billion franchise value shows the team is a great investment, growing massively since 2005. Meanwhile, Anaheim Arena Management makes money from Honda Center events and will earn even more from the ocV!BE. The Samuelis use the Ducks strategically: the team’s “losses” save taxes, the arena brings in cash, and the whole setup makes their other businesses more profitable. It’s a smart financial plan, not a desperate struggle.

The Ducks sometimes show a loss on paper, like $3-5 million a year, because of how they account for expenses like player salaries, arena costs. These losses aren’t always actual cash they’re losing but numbers that help with taxes.

When the Samuelis bought the Ducks for $75 million in 2005, they could “depreciate” most of that value (say, 90%, or $67 million) over 15 years. This means they write off about $4.5 million a year as a tax deduction. For a franchise now worth $1.3 billion, a similar deal could let them deduct $78 million a year, saving them $27 million in taxes annually (at a 35% tax rate). This is called the Roster Depreciation Allowance and applies to things like player contracts.*

Playoffs do boost revenue. It something like each home game can generate $1-2 million, but the Ducks’ financial model doesn’t collapse without them. Their revenue grew $6 million from 2021/22 to 2022/23 ( again Forbes data), even during a losing season, the Ducks are financially resilient. Fan engagement remains good, with merchandise sales and pretty good and consistent attendance at Honda Center lessen losses.

The Samuelis are billionaires (worth over $25ish billion). A $5 million loss is pocket change for them.

I can't wait to see 3 page rebuttal, and please don't go off on a dissertation on how unreliable Forbes numbers are... They are reliable enough for this discussion, despite Forbes’ reliance on estimates. Because without audited financials, Forbes’ data is the best we’ve got. Oh well, I said my piece and I usually don't have time for this stuff but expect a looooong response... So flame away.

You are reiterating that the Ducks are losing money, but they're being supplemented from sources outside of the Ducks' franchise.

Kinda odd you spent all that time writing it just to cope that actually losing $5 mil cash isn't much when you have over $25 billion that isn't cash on hand.

 

[Tony O]

You are reiterating that the Ducks are losing money, but they're being supplemented from sources outside of the Ducks' franchise.

Kinda odd you spent all that time writing it just to cope that actually losing $5 mil cash isn't much when you have over $25 billion that isn't cash on hand.

Percentage Growth: ($1,225 million / $75 million) × 100 = 1,633.33%

 

[Tony O]

The Ducks have sufficient cash flow from their $164 million revenue. The claim that the Ducks have no cash is just wrong. The team makes $164 million a year from tickets, sponsorships, and TV deals, plus extra from the NHL’s revenue-sharing program. This easily covers their costs, like the $74 million player salaries (cap wise). The millions in “losses” you hear about aren’t real cash losses. They’re just accounting numbers from tax tricks like the Roster Depreciation Allowance, which saves the owners millions in taxes.

The Ducks also get cash from Honda Center, which the Samuelis own and run through Anaheim Arena Management. You know this. It hosts concerts and events, bringing in money beyond hockey. Plus, their $3 or 4 billion ocV!BE project will have shops, hotels, and restaurants and will add even more cash starting in 2025, with construction well underway.

Even if the Ducks needed cash, the Samuelis, worth $25.3 billion, have plenty from Broadcom dividends and past stock sales. A $5 million loss would be just 0.02% of their wealth. Peanuts! And they don’t even need to dip into it. The Ducks have plenty of cash and are part of a money making system, not some cashless mess. It's all part of a profitable system. Which would not exist if the Samuelis’ never purchased the Ducks. I'm done...

 

[DuckTech]

The Ducks have sufficient cash flow from their $164 million revenue. The claim that the Ducks have no cash is just wrong. The team makes $164 million a year from tickets, sponsorships, and TV deals, plus extra from the NHL’s revenue-sharing program. This easily covers their costs, like the $74 million player salaries (cap wise). The millions in “losses” you hear about aren’t real cash losses. They’re just accounting numbers from tax tricks like the Roster Depreciation Allowance, which saves the owners millions in taxes.

The Ducks also get cash from Honda Center, which the Samuelis own and run through Anaheim Arena Management. You know this. It hosts concerts and events, bringing in money beyond hockey. Plus, their $3 or 4 billion ocV!BE project will have shops, hotels, and restaurants and will add even more cash starting in 2025, with construction well underway.

Even if the Ducks needed cash, the Samuelis, worth $25.3 billion, have plenty from Broadcom dividends and past stock sales. A $5 million loss would be just 0.02% of their wealth. Peanuts! And they don’t even need to dip into it. The Ducks have plenty of cash and are part of a money making system, not some cashless mess. It's all part of a profitable system. Which would not exist if the Samuelis’ never purchased the Ducks. I'm done...

Here to play my favorite dropout.tv game ummm actually - The city of Anaheim owns the arena, they only have management rights.

 

[Tony O]

Here to play my favorite dropout.tv game ummm actually - The city of Anaheim owns the arena, they only have management rights.

True, they only manage the arena but my points still stand. Brain fart as I was typing. It happens!

 

[Son of Gib]

If Woodcroft really is the safe pick and Carle the high upside one, then bring on Carle.

 

[la patineuse]

Here to play my favorite dropout.tv game ummm actually - The city of Anaheim owns the arena, they only have management rights.

It might be better that they don't own the arena and the debt and maybe the major maintenance and additional capital costs that go with owning an arena.

On top of the tax benefits of owning the Ducks, the Ducks also give the arena management a permanent professional sports tenant that guarantees at least 41 event days/nights per year for the regular season. There are also pre-season games and other Ducks' related events that provide revenue to the arena management.

 

[ducks8]

I hear Bob Murray is available. He has a above 500 record as a HC

 

[2faded]

If Woodcroft really is the safe pick and Carle the high upside one, then bring on Carle.

I don't really have a strong opinion on this because I know nothing about coaching but I tend to lean towards the higher upside.

Verbeek's job may be on the line with this pick so he could go safe though.

 

[duckpuck]

You are reiterating that the Ducks are losing money, but they're being supplemented from sources outside of the Ducks' franchise.

Kinda odd you spent all that time writing it just to cope that actually losing $5 mil cash isn't much when you have over $25 billion that isn't cash on hand.

The Ducks have sufficient cash flow from their $164 million revenue. The claim that the Ducks have no cash is just wrong. The team makes $164 million a year from tickets, sponsorships, and TV deals, plus extra from the NHL’s revenue-sharing program. This easily covers their costs, like the $74 million player salaries (cap wise). The millions in “losses” you hear about aren’t real cash losses. They’re just accounting numbers from tax tricks like the Roster Depreciation Allowance, which saves the owners millions in taxes.

The Ducks also get cash from Honda Center, which the Samuelis own and run through Anaheim Arena Management. You know this. It hosts concerts and events, bringing in money beyond hockey. Plus, their $3 or 4 billion ocV!BE project will have shops, hotels, and restaurants and will add even more cash starting in 2025, with construction well underway.

Even if the Ducks needed cash, the Samuelis, worth $25.3 billion, have plenty from Broadcom dividends and past stock sales. A $5 million loss would be just 0.02% of their wealth. Peanuts! And they don’t even need to dip into it. The Ducks have plenty of cash and are part of a money making system, not some cashless mess. It's all part of a profitable system. Which would not exist if the Samuelis’ never purchased the Ducks. I'm done...

Two points:

1. Cash flow and profits are different things. You can have one but not the other.
2. The original false claim was that the Samuelis don't spend money and are cheapskates. To that point, profit is irrelevant. Either you spend cash or you don't. Hockey Duckie came up with a lot of additional data points/details supporting that they spend a lot of cash and are not cheap (in general). I think the Forbes discussion just confuses this issue, though it is interesting in its own right.

 

[m0rdecai89]

I wonder what Walrus McLean is doing? Very similar to his Ottawa teams, young and fast. At least bring him as an offensive assistant, maybe Nieds as PK asst and groom him for HC... in a non Q grooming way.

 

[SmokeyDuck]

I wonder what Walrus McLean is doing? Very similar to his Ottawa teams, young and fast. At least bring him as an offensive assistant, maybe Nieds as PK asst and groom him for HC... in a non Q grooming way.

I was actually thinking of that the other night. Great minds think alike. Has he been coaching?

 

[m0rdecai89]

I was actually thinking of that the other night. Great minds think alike. Has he been coaching?

I hope so. He was great offensively and seemed like the players liked him. He might be up there in age now too though.

 

[Mr Rogers]

I generally like the idea of coaches who were good forwards as players. I like Maclean a lot