The Roster Thread, Summer 2024

MOGlLNY

Registered User
Jan 5, 2008
11,865
11,763
The idea that no combo of players acquired could have made a significant difference is silly, especially when Adams was GM during an expansion draft and had ample amount of cap space and draft capital to work with and he moved a top 10 NHL center.

The Sabres opting for a futures heavy deal for eichel rather than going for a star for star swap, for one. I mean, who says he couldn't have gotten Matthew Tkachuk for Eichel. Or some combo of Lindholm +

He likely could have made a deal with Seattle with 1st OA for 2nd OA + whatever player(s) he wanted in the expansion draft.


With the benefit of hindsight, you can certainly reverse engineer some league wide moves and construct a conference finalist team.

Go get Devon Toews for two 2nd round picks in 2020 and go from there. Trade Eichel before the neck injury. Re-sign Ullmark and Reinhart before the 2020-21 season to long term deals.

And even without the benefit of hindsight, things could have been done differently from the get go. If they had opted to do smart things in summer of 2020 instead of swing for the fences with the Hall signing and Eichel doesn't get injured....much different outcomes.

Adams started badly, got unlucky (Eichel injury), then it spiraled into dumb and dumber decisions making.
None of those guys would've signed here. Tkachuk had all the cards and used them to get where he wanted to go. Lindholm just walked away from a very good Vancouver team to sign a big ticket. Would've cost us 8+ million to sign him long term and would've been a disaster.

Why would they do this if they wanted Power and Seattle wasn't guaranteed to take Berniers?

Adams has made mistakes but these are very bad examples of them.
 

Matt Ress

Don't sleep on me
Aug 5, 2014
5,394
3,102
Appalachia
Million dollar question right there. Right now....as this team is presently constructed....he's more than likely the 13th forward. He's NOT beating out Tage or Cozens or McLeod at center. So maybe if he performs heads and tails better than Lafferty, maybe he could start as the 4C.

The issue is that he's not good as a wing.....and when he's gotten chances with better players, he hasn't made the most of them. His best chance here is he forces his way into the lineup via injury and forces Ruff to not take him out.

But I think his future ultimately lies with a team other than the Sabres.
Trade to a crappy team that he can walk onto for a nothingburger return to do the player a favor while half the board completely explodes, incoming.
 

sabremike

#1 Tageaholic
Aug 30, 2010
23,709
36,294
Brewster, NY
Trade to a crappy team that he can walk onto for a nothingburger return to do the player a favor while half the board completely explodes, incoming.
Given he was the second biggest piece coming back in a trade for a cup winning franchise center and all but certain future HHOF inductee and ended up such a colossal bust how the hell could you blame anyone who was furious over such a thing?
 

Sabre the Win

Joke of a Franchise
Jun 27, 2013
12,658
5,303
I'm late to Helenius talk a few pages back but if people are so high on him saying hes NHL ready and could make the team out of camp then why did he fall to us?
 

Aladyyn

they praying for the death of a rockstar
Apr 6, 2015
18,290
7,601
Czech Republic
I'm late to Helenius talk a few pages back but if people are so high on him saying hes NHL ready and could make the team out of camp then why did he fall to us?
Similar to Benson last year, teams fall in love with guys and reach for them. Someone has to drop when that happens and we were lucky enough to get Konsta out of it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dingo44

Matt Ress

Don't sleep on me
Aug 5, 2014
5,394
3,102
Appalachia
Given he was the second biggest piece coming back in a trade for a cup winning franchise center and all but certain future HHOF inductee and ended up such a colossal bust how the hell could you blame anyone who was furious over such a thing?
My point was that some here still have faith in Krebs. I wouldn't be completely surprised if my post actually happened but they would still need a 13th forward and Krebs is low level yet versatile in low level forwarding. Kind of a perfect 13th but I bet he's asking way over his head.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sabremike

Irie

Registered User
Nov 14, 2010
4,663
4,606
Pacific Northwest
The idea that no combo of players acquired could have made a significant difference is silly, especially when Adams was GM during an expansion draft and had ample amount of cap space and draft capital to work with and he moved a top 10 NHL center.

The Sabres opting for a futures heavy deal for eichel rather than going for a star for star swap, for one. I mean, who says he couldn't have gotten Matthew Tkachuk for Eichel. Or some combo of Lindholm +

He likely could have made a deal with Seattle with 1st OA for 2nd OA + whatever player(s) he wanted in the expansion draft.

With the benefit of hindsight, you can certainly reverse engineer some league wide moves and construct a conference finalist team.

Go get Devon Toews for two 2nd round picks in 2020 and go from there. Trade Eichel before the neck injury. Re-sign Ullmark and Reinhart before the 2020-21 season to long term deals.

And even without the benefit of hindsight, things could have been done differently from the get go. If they had opted to do smart things in summer of 2020 instead of swing for the fences with the Hall signing and Eichel doesn't get injured....much different outcomes.

Adams started badly, got unlucky (Eichel injury), then it spiraled into dumb and dumber decisions making.
"Significant difference" and conference final team are two extremely different goalposts (conference final team likely means beating Tampa in their cup year and Boston in their 135 point season, etc ).

Eichel's career was in question, 75% of the league wasn't looking to take a chance on him. He wasn't returning Huberdeau alone without a successful surgery already done, so there is no way he returns Tkachuk.

Look at those Sabres rosters and then look at their farm at the time. It was going to cost most of the farm to make those teams playoff caliber, and even then, the chances of them being good enough to make the ECF is a pipedream. The core just wasn't there, and they did not have the assets to acquire a championship caliber core, because what they needed, no team was trading.
 

Dirty Dog

Wooftastic
Sponsor
Jul 11, 2013
11,859
14,523
The doghouse
I'm late to Helenius talk a few pages back but if people are so high on him saying hes NHL ready and could make the team out of camp then why did he fall to us?

If you’re going to make this point, you should at least explain how other 18 years old drafted later than Helenius have made the NHL before
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jeremy2020

zenthusiast

cybersabre his prophet
Oct 20, 2009
18,875
6,418
Off the top of the head, since the lockout season I can recall ROR and Pastrnak as guys who made meaningful contributions at 18 despite being lower than Helenius’ draft position. I guess if he’s a similar exception, great, but the skepticism is warranted
 

Dirty Dog

Wooftastic
Sponsor
Jul 11, 2013
11,859
14,523
The doghouse
Off the top of the head, since the lockout season I can recall ROR and Pastrnak as guys who made meaningful contributions at 18 despite being lower than Helenius’ draft position. I guess if he’s a similar exception, great, but the skepticism is warranted

I don’t think anyone isn’t skeptic of him making the team. I don’t think anyone is really wanting that or expecting it. I don’t think anyone is saying it is likely or probable.
 

toddkaz

Registered User
Nov 25, 2022
6,094
3,739
I'm late to Helenius talk a few pages back but if people are so high on him saying hes NHL ready and could make the team out of camp then why did he fall to us?
Just because a prospect is NHL ready doesn't necessarily make him more appealing at the draft.

Players who are closer to being NHL ready don't necessarily get drafted over non NHL ready players
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jeremy2020

joshjull

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
79,147
41,624
Hamburg,NY
Is that what KA was thinking about when he walked two young and developing players into a trade and FA status? Reinhart and Ullmark fit perfectly into the timeline. He did not commit to them. They would have been really handy to have around the last 2-3 years. There was no good reason to have them leave.
Yes, that was what he was thinking because thats what he did.

Players also have a say in their situation. Sam asked to be traded after the decision to rebuild. Ullmark clearly didn’t want to stick around even though they tried to sign him. Who could blame him.

If anything, Adams could be criticized for not trading Ullmark at the deadline and getting something for him. But he felt confident he could sign him. Clearly he was wrong and lost him for nothing.
I'm not sure what the point of this is. Any way you look at it, there were poor decisions (and others). I barely cling to any interest in following this team anymore. I sure as hell don't have any interest in debating how the various percentages of blame fall to the different incapable people that have been in charge over the last 14 years. Do you really think it's a Sabres board "win" to go on and try to prove the percentages differently than how I see it?
I’m not talking about “percentages of blame” and I’m certainly not talking about the last 14 years. I’m talking about the last 3 seasons when Adams had full control of hockey ops. How/why things played out like they did and how good or bad was it.

To steal your phrase….. Anyway you look at it, Adams decision to rebuild with youth was wildly successful. It was the polar opposite of a poor decision. The poor decisions came last offseason. When the team seemed ready to take the next step but Adams wasn’t up to it. He f***ed up by handling it like another development season even though he stated the goal was the playoffs. He should have been aggressively reshaping/addressing holes in the lineup like this offseason. But thats still only one bad offseason/season under his stewardship. I’m in wait and see mode for this year. But his offseason has me backing away from the ledge a little.


As for what we are doing…. Debating topics related to a team thats sucked for years in the middle of the summer. A team we both are driven crazy by…….. So I would say we are doing masochism.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HOOats

La Cosa Nostra

Caporegime
Jun 25, 2009
14,101
2,375
This team is depressing. Literally zero net gain on the overall roster outside of an improved 4th line and they weren’t even close to a playoff team last year. I like Ruff as the coach but he is not a miracle worker. I either want a winning streak or losing streak right out the gate I don’t want some middling win one lose two win 2 lose 2 type team all year to watch I’d rather find out early if I give this team any attention ,
 

Jim Bob

RIP RJ
Feb 27, 2002
57,950
38,417
Rochester, NY

This is a new Sabres blog that I have found recently and I like his stuff.

Laine Comps​

Patrik Laine Columbus Blue Jackets player comps


When charting his attributes, it’s clear that Patrik Laine is an elite shooter and not much else. His shot-blocking rates were spiked in limited time last season, as were his penalties drawn. This puts him in the company of aggressive, scoring, complementary shooters like the Minnesota Wild’s Ryan Hartman and the Anaheim Ducks’ Frank Vatrano.

While Laine’s quality finishing ability ranks in the 98th percentile, his playmaking is in the 23rd, and his defense is abysmal in the 5th. He’s regarded as a powerplay specialist, but teams have figured out he’s one-dimensional in the role, dropping him to the 33rd percentile.

Laine Profile​

Okay, so Laine may be a one-trick pony, but what if that trick is really good? After all, he’s scored 204 goals in the league over 480 NHL games, which is a shade under a 35-goal pace across an 82-game season.

The Sabres have a wide range of play drivers, playmakers, and shooters on the team, so it’s a matter of line fit for Laine. His projected line to start with, if traded for, would be next to Dylan Cozens and Jack Quinn. Let’s evaluate what he could bring to the trio.

The most I would expect Columbus would retain was around 25%. So, is Laine a good enough shooter that he makes sense at around $6.5M against the cap this year and next year for the Sabres?

Given the issues he has had in being available to play and how bad he has been defensively, I would be surprised if the Sabres are the team that trades for him.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Matt Ress

Matt Ress

Don't sleep on me
Aug 5, 2014
5,394
3,102
Appalachia

This is a new Sabres blog that I have found recently and I like his stuff.



The most I would expect Columbus would retain was around 25%. So, is Laine a good enough shooter that he makes sense at around $6.5M against the cap this year and next year for the Sabres?

Given the issues he has had in being available to play and how bad he has been defensively, I would be surprised if the Sabres are the team that trades for him.
I haven't been a huge proponent of acquiring Laine but these kinds of relatively cheap additions are what good teams find. That being said, I don't know that I would offer a ton but I bet Adams is at least kicking tires.
 

MOGlLNY

Registered User
Jan 5, 2008
11,865
11,763
Idk I wouldn’t be upset if we acquired Laine for a reasonable price but I definitely think there’s a high chance it goes sour if we did.

I guess at least they’d be trying? Columbus fans seem fine with keeping him which I think is a good sign for him but his injury concerns and the fit for me are ehhh
 

toddkaz

Registered User
Nov 25, 2022
6,094
3,739

This is a new Sabres blog that I have found recently and I like his stuff.



The most I would expect Columbus would retain was around 25%. So, is Laine a good enough shooter that he makes sense at around $6.5M against the cap this year and next year for the Sabres?

Given the issues he has had in being available to play and how bad he has been defensively, I would be surprised if the Sabres are the team that trades for him.
I see people say Laine and Skinner are the same player. Just a lazy comparison.
 

Jim Bob

RIP RJ
Feb 27, 2002
57,950
38,417
Rochester, NY
I haven't been a huge proponent of acquiring Laine but these kinds of relatively cheap additions are what good teams find. That being said, I don't know that I would offer a ton but I bet Adams is at least kicking tires.
It has to be the right fit.

Ottawa signing Tarasenko to the 1 yr $5M deal last summer is an example of just adding a top 6 F on the cheap not automatically being an addition that helps the team make a big move forward.

Roster fit is a huge thing. Laine does have the shooting talent to perhaps be a decent fit with Cozens and Quinn who can both drive play. But, he could also be the kind of player that Ruff wants no part of because he is allergic to defense and contact.

I see people say Laine and Skinner are the same player. Just a lazy comparison.
They are similar in that they are plus shooters, not great playmakers, bad defensively, and allergic to contact and finishing checks.

Laine is younger, bigger, and plays with more pace. And Skinner is more durable and has played way more games over the past 5 seasons.

So, are they the same player? Nope.

Are they both guys who are unlikely to be what Ruff & Adams want on this roster? I think that is likely the case.
 

BFLO

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Feb 3, 2015
4,450
4,163
Top teams have rookies make their teams fairly often. Maybe not always 18 years old, but young rookies nonetheless.
Top teams have cap problems and need cheap players with upside to fill out their rosters. Sometimes it's a rookie that fills that cheap spot.

It's been 6 years since an 18 year old rookie made a playoff roster out of camp.

The Sabres were far from having cap trouble last year.
Benson's IQ and work ethic earned him a spot on the team. It's incredibly rare an 18 year old has his level of IQ, which is why they rarely ever make it to the show at that age. He's well ahead of the curve in that regard.
Yes. If your 18 year old rookie, drafted 13th overall, looks like your best player in camp and preseason, and is the only player who bothers to show up from game 1 of the regular season, it means you drafted well but... you're in for a bad year because the rest of the roster sucks and/or is not putting in the effort.
Yea. Benson was the reason they didn’t make the playoffs.
No. The rest of the roster was the problem. See 1 quote above.

This seems to go against the grain in this thread, but if Helenius makes this team coming out of camp, then this is still a bottom 10 team in the NHL. IMO
Yep.

I'd add that it also means Kulich, Rosen, Ostlund, (Savoie) aren't nearly as good as we've hyped them to be if they still can't crack this bottom 10 roster.

Yea, but only 2023 matters.
It's been 6 years since an 18 year old rookie made a playoff roster out of camp.

Zero 2022 draftees made the 2022-23 playoffs.
1722945018252.png

Zero 2021 draftees made the 2021-22 playoffs
1722945068607.png

Same for 2020
1722945148351.png

4 draftees played in the "playoffs". But none count as draftees who made a playoff roster out of camp.

Kakko and Dach both made their teams out of camp. But neither made the actual round of 16 team playoffs, they only made the Covid play in rounds.

Robertson and Harley did not make their teams out of camp, they were playoff call ups and played zero regular season games.
1722945205673.png


Finally got one! Carolina won the draft lottery for 2nd overall, moving up 9 spots to draft Svechnikov.
1722949822649.png
 

Attachments

  • 1722945000738.png
    1722945000738.png
    81.5 KB · Views: 0
Last edited:

joshjull

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
79,147
41,624
Hamburg,NY
The whole "we don't want vets in spots blocking kids" thing was pure idiocy because it led to a roster of kids getting their heads kicked in flailing away and drowning at this level instead of being in Rochester (a team that literally exists to develop players). A roster with lots of kids is the single best way to lose lots of games and fail miserably.
This is complete nonsense. That policy led to many young players breaking out who are key pieces, a very quick rebuild and almost making the playoffs in year 2. The mistake was Adams not changing his team building approach once the goal changed from rebuild/development to making the playoffs.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

  • France vs Belgium
    France vs Belgium
    Wagers: 5
    Staked: $1,632.00
    Event closes
    • Updated:
  • Israel vs Italy
    Israel vs Italy
    Wagers: 9
    Staked: $30,669.00
    Event closes
    • Updated:
  • Montenegro vs Wales
    Montenegro vs Wales
    Wagers: 4
    Staked: $380.00
    Event closes
    • Updated:
  • Norway vs Austria
    Norway vs Austria
    Wagers: 4
    Staked: $529.00
    Event closes
    • Updated:
  • Turkey vs Iceland
    Turkey vs Iceland
    Wagers: 4
    Staked: $1,215.00
    Event closes
    • Updated:

Ad

Ad