The Roster Thread, Summer 2024

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

One thing I struggle with is, how much time do we give these kids in Rochester? Should a prospect really spend 3 full years in the AHL? It just seems to me that Rosen ain't gonna learn anything new down there.

If we plan on just throwing these prospect into trades, why not just give them an opportunity here?

So many 1st round picks from the 2020 draft (1 year before Rosen draft) already have so many games. What that says to me, these guys should be in NHL by the time they are 21/22,

And like the dawning of a new day we’ve completed another cycle. From everyone is handed their spots and too much is expected of them too young to they spend too much time in rochester. What it take this time? 9 months?

 

[Dubi Doo]

Fair enough and I wouldn’t tell you to feel otherwise.

The sentiment in Bove’s tweet sums up where I am.

That's a level headed tweet. Risky business going in the season with Krebs as 3C and the defense the way it is. Let's hope for a big move.

 

[Weltschmerz]

Ok, I've cooled down a bit and it's time to get to work. I think Adams will have no problem getting 3C/2C and top 6 forward. I think the center position is more important, but we also have the assets to get a top 6 forward. I think we have too many prospects in Rochester already and some of them will be at a disadvantage playing smaller roles. I'm also a little confused by the presence of so many LDs. We have Johnson, who looked okay on the third pairing, and Adams signed Gilbert and re-signed Bryson, not to mention Davis and Clague for Rochester. Jokiharju is a very strange guy here.


Who am I looking at to add a center to our lineup.


Carolina has Aho, Kuznetsov, Staal, Kotkaniemi and Drury. I think we could get one of KK and Drury.

Vegas has Eichel, Hertl, Karlsson and Roy, maybe one of the last two could be available.

Kick the tires on Frost.

Seattle signed Stephenson and they have Beniers, and maybe they'll give Wright the 3C role. Then Gourde would make sense for us.

Pinto seems like an obvious choice.

Oilers above the cap, McLeod was a good target.

Maybe players like Hartman, Schenn, Colton, Granlund, Dickinson, Eller and Suter.


Top 6 F:

I think the Necas story has died down. But who else is there? Ehlers would look perfect, even if for one year. Konecny, Zegras, Farabee, Laine, Coleman, Crouse, Schmaltz, Boeser, Vatrano. Tarasenko in UFA.

I think Adams has the assets to get one center and one top 6 forward, if he wants to. Also, trading Joki and Krebs would give us about 5 million in cap space. Not to mention that our UFA will free up more than 10 million in cap space after season.

Problem with Ehlers is the same as with Scheifle/Helly last offseason, they will ask for the moon and hope he will stay.
We can only hope Flyers do something stupid and want to move Frost or Farabee out.
Wouldn't mind Laine but doubt he would want to come to Buffalo.
The Anaheim guys I would think they are in a similar position like the sabres and would like to become better so they probably would want no futures back.
Utah guys I don't see moving either, maybe Tarasenko would come if we offer him big money short term and he can't find that elsewhere.

 

[Jim Bob]

That's a level headed tweet. Risky business going in the season with Krebs as 3C and the defense the way it is. Let's hope for a big move.

Adams has been unable to make a big move in 4 years as GM. I am not holding my breath that he makes a big move now.

His MO has been betting on "his guys" like Krebs. I think that is what we get.

Moves could possibly happen. But, I would not bet on it.

 

[jc17]

Krebs is not the type of 4C that fits with what Lindy wants on the 4th line.

Lindy wants guys that play fast, play in straight lines, finishes all their checks, blocks shots, and are really hard to play against.

That isn't Krebs.

Yeah that makes sense.

It seems that they like Krebs, but I don't see him taking a spot from Greenway or any of our other top 9 wingers, so if Krebs on the 4th line is a hard no, we can dismiss any thoughts of another center coming in. I guess most people have already

 

[joshjull]

It really does seem to live or die with certain guys taking a step forward, which is a little more uncertainty than I'd like, but is what it is.

I think that lineup is roughly what most people envision, and I think it's the play of the guys on that second line that's the wildcard. A ton of potential there but still relatively inexperienced

Edit: I need to proofread more often

From Adams comments about how involved Lindy was in shaping the roster so far. The sense I get is they’re counting on his (Lindy) line structure and player usage to get the most out of this group.

As for that lineup, I’m not sure Lindy would use Cozens in a two way role flanked by 2 kids. I believe they acquired Zucker to prevent that from having to happen. Between him and Greenway they can put a more experienced player on each middle 6 line.

 

[Diaspora]

I think the 2nd half of this is what they grabbed onto to claim he’s done making moves. Which is bizarre, since he opens with saying he is open to adding someone to the top 6. I think they were just looking for something to grab onto to rage out about.

Unless Xmas comes early, Adams is done. There are no roster spots left. Players from the roster would have to go out to make room. You can't trade the new signees. You don't want to trade the core.

Movable roster players: Krebs, Greenway, Jokiharju, Clifton.

I think they're committing to Krebs until at least December. If you trade Greenway, you need to replace his role on the team.

Jokiharju+ could be traded to a tanking team for a stay at home RD, but I can't think of any targets. Clifton on his contract doesn't have a ton of value.

And no team that's trying to win will trade a high-caliber roster player for futures.

He's done. That said, I think the roster looks at least somewhat better than last year. Maybe a lot better.

 

[TehDoak]

So, in looking at teams up against the cap:

Vegas: Every major salary is NTC/NMC
Oilers: All major forwards are either new signings or NTC/NMC
Capitals: Likely want to shed a d-man, TVR is a prime candidate. Oshie is likely retired/LTIR
Toronto: Every major forward with NTC/NMC, No D worth looking at
Nashville: This is where the list gets interesting. They have almost no NTC/NMCs

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

Novak JUST signed an extension, so probably not
RoR would probably crash his car into a BoJangles rather than come back here.
Nyquist has 1 year left. He'd be a big upgrade over Zucker.
Sissons is also an interesting name with 2 years left.

Vancouver is interesting as well. Boeser has 1 year left to UFA and no NTC/NMC They just added a long term RW in Debrusk. They have some solid RW depth behind him and need some picks/prospects to replenish the pool

Islanders: NTC'd out the ying yang.
WIld: NMCs on every major forward

Philadelphia; Both Farabee and Konecny make a ton of sense for the Sabres.

Colorado needs to move someone out. However, the NTC/NMC issue exists here too.

I am curious if Florida is going to do some more work, they need another PMD with Montour gone, maybe Joker+ for a forward there?

 

[Jim Bob]

From Adams comments about how involved Lindy was in shaping the roster so far. The sense I get is they’re counting on his (Lindy) line structure and player usage to get the most out of this group.

As for that lineup, I’m not sure LIndy would use Cozens in a two way role flanked by 2 kids. I believe they acquired Zucker to prevent that from having to happen. Between him and Greenway they can put a more experienced player on each middle 6 line.

I think Zucker was added in large part because they believe he gives them roster flexibility.

The 4th line of Malenstyn-Lafferty-NAK seems like it is written in pen as long as they are healthy.

Then they have options:

Option 1:
JJP-TNT-Tuch
Zucker-Cozens-Quinn
Benson-Krebs-Greenway

Option 2:
Benson-TNT-Tuch
JJP-Cozens-Quinn
Zucker-Krebs-Greenway

Option 3:
Zucker-TNT-Tuch
JJP-Cozens-Quinn
Benson-Krebs-Greenway

Line Blender Option:
Zucker-TNT-Quinn
JJP-Cozens-Greenway
Benson-Krebs-Tuch

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

It really does seem to live or die with certain guys taking a step forward, which is a little more uncertainty than I'd like, but is what it is.

I think that lineup is roughly what most people envision, and I think it's the play of the guys on that second line that's the wildcard. A ton of potential there but still relatively inexperienced

Edit: I need to proofread more often

I find it strange and ironic how KA talks in that clip about a belief in his players to get better. He just traded a guy that got much better over the course of 18 months, for a guy that is younger and hasn't gotten better since his first season.

Then the comment "I really like where our group is at right now. I like it a lot ... We're a much better team today than we were a couple of days ago." It's just the usual GM speak but in KA's case, there is no reason to think he doesn't believe that or has any urgency to make further moves. His track record shows that.

He either actually believes that the better 4th line more than makes up for the downgrades at FW and C, or it's just the usual smoke to cover the fact that he's done because he couldn't/wouldn't pull the trigger on a bigger trade. The next couple weeks is just a slow walk into the brick wall for me. My ESPN+ sub runs out at the end of the year, but I probably won't be using it by Halloween.

 

[RefsIdeas]

I don’t mind the offseason additions. It’s nice to have a legit 4th line now with an identity.

With that being said though - how many times did we lose games because of our 4th line last year? After how many losses did we think to ourselves “Gee, if we had a physical 4th line, that game would’ve had a totally different result”.

Wasn’t the issue more so on guys like Dylan Cozens? Did we do anything to potentially mitigate the damage of him not figuring out his game?

Did we take any steps to ensure that Tage + Tuch (amongst others) will bounce back?

Did acquire anybody to help the power play?

Did we acquire a better partner for Power? (Assuming Byram - Dahlin will be the top pairing).

It seems like the answer for most of the above is just “Ruff will fix it” and “I believe they will bounce back”. Yikes.

 

[TehDoak]

Unless Xmas comes early, Adams is done. There are no roster spots left. Players from the roster would have to go out to make room. You can't trade the new signees. You don't want to trade the core.

Movable roster players: Krebs, Greenway, Jokiharju, Clifton.

I think they're committing to Krebs until at least December. If you trade Greenway, you need to replace his role on the team.

Jokiharju+ could be traded to a tanking team for a stay at home RD, but I can't think of any targets. Clifton on his contract doesn't have a ton of value.

And no team that's trying to win will trade a high-caliber roster player for futures.

He's done. That said, I think the roster looks at least somewhat better than last year. Maybe a lot better.

A thought that I've had here that makes a bit of sense, though I don't think people will be all that open to it.

One thing we've talked about is leaving space for Jack Quinn's/Peterkas contracts.

Well, if we move one of them...we don't need to anymore.

An example deal would be Quinn + Pick for one of Konency or Boeser and extend them. Both RWs. Both are basically who you hope Quinn becomes.

You are getting immediate veteran impact, you avoid having to give them a bridge deal, you essentially are giving out that money now. You are changing the locker room dynamic a bit, and hopefully, you are allowing the next level of talent underneath them to bubble up naturally.

The risk, of course, is what if Quinn breaks out this year and produces more elsewhere.

That's a risk. But, its an interesting exercise in roster planning. And you still have more long term salary to play with.

 

[oldgoalie]

A thought that I've had here that makes a bit of sense, though I don't think people will be all that open to it.

One thing we've talked about is leaving space for Jack Quinn's/Peterkas contracts.

Well, if we move one of them...we don't need to anymore.

An example deal would be Quinn + Pick for one of Konency or Boeser and extend them. Both RWs. Both are basically who you hope Quinn becomes.

You are getting immediate veteran impact, you avoid having to give them a bridge deal, you essentially are giving out that money now. You are changing the locker room dynamic a bit, and hopefully, you are allowing the next level of talent underneath them to bubble up naturally.

The risk, of course, is what if Quinn breaks out this year and produces more elsewhere.

That's a risk. But, its an interesting exercise in roster planning. And you still have more long term salary to play with.

I'd let go of JJ, not Quinn, IMHO.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I think the 2nd half of this is what they grabbed onto to claim he’s done making moves. Which is bizarre, since he opens with saying he is open to adding someone to the top 6.

He’s literally been saying that for years and has never pulled the trigger so fans don’t believe him anymore.

It’s just lip service — he actually isn’t open to bringing anyone in unless they’re willing to take an unreasonably low salary with a very short term, which will never happen.

I guess maybe listen more? Toronto brings it up unprompted every time they talk about the roster. It was last week that their entire news cycle was on treliving saying the players they need aren’t available.

That’s 100% different from saying they don’t want to come because your team always loses and your city is cold and shitty.

A thought that I've had here that makes a bit of sense, though I don't think people will be all that open to it.

One thing we've talked about is leaving space for Jack Quinn's/Peterkas contracts.

Well, if we move one of them...we don't need to anymore.

An example deal would be Quinn + Pick for one of Konency or Boeser and extend them. Both RWs. Both are basically who you hope Quinn becomes.

You are getting immediate veteran impact, you avoid having to give them a bridge deal, you essentially are giving out that money now. You are changing the locker room dynamic a bit, and hopefully, you are allowing the next level of talent underneath them to bubble up naturally.

The risk, of course, is what if Quinn breaks out this year and produces more elsewhere.

That's a risk. But, its an interesting exercise in roster planning. And you still have more long term salary to play with.

I’ll take “things Adams would never do in a million years” for 100, Alex.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I don’t mind the offseason additions. It’s nice to have a legit 4th line now with an identity.

With that being said though - how many times did we lose games because of our 4th line last year? After how many losses did we think to ourselves “Gee, if we had a physical 4th line, that game would’ve had a totally different result”.

Wasn’t the issue more so on guys like Dylan Cozens? Did we do anything to potentially mitigate the damage of him not figuring out his game?

Did we take any steps to ensure that Tage + Tuch (amongst others) will bounce back?

Did acquire anybody to help the power play?

Did we acquire a better partner for Power? (Assuming Byram - Dahlin will be the top pairing).

It seems like the answer for most of the above is just “Ruff will fix it” and “I believe they will bounce back”. Yikes.

You're basically right. The 4th line didn't lose many games. It's nice to have younger, bigger guys that play tougher and meaner, but KA can't be relying on just one line to play that way. Greenway is good in that regard but nobody else on the roster plays heavy or dirty...not Tuch, not Cozens, and Krebs is a yap dog that nobody is bothered by.

Point is, the whole team needs to embrace a tougher mindset. They can't keep playing their normal game and say "well those 4th line guys will show 'em" if a game gets nasty. KA could have added a power FW in place of Skinner but he got another meh guy that doesn't move the needle in ANY direction. He is still relying on young players to develop physically and potentially change toward a tougher mindset that just might not actually be there.

Edit - I forget to mention how if getting tougher to play against is such a priority, why is the D-corps devoid of any physicality, outside of Dahlin sometimes (not his role/purpose as a #1) and Clifton trying to punch up a weight class? Byram doesn't add that element, and Gilbert as a #7 guy is not exactly the answer to making the team tougher.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I think Zucker was added in large part because they believe he gives them roster flexibility.

The 4th line of Malenstyn-Lafferty-NAK seems like it is written in pen as long as they are healthy.

Then they have options:

Option 1:
JJP-TNT-Tuch
Zucker-Cozens-Quinn
Benson-Krebs-Greenway

Option 2:
Benson-TNT-Tuch
JJP-Cozens-Quinn
Zucker-Krebs-Greenway

Option 3:
Zucker-TNT-Tuch
JJP-Cozens-Quinn
Benson-Krebs-Greenway

Line Blender Option:
Zucker-TNT-Quinn
JJP-Cozens-Greenway
Benson-Krebs-Tuch

No matter how you look at it, it’s a lottery team. Not a single person in the media will have this team cracking 90 points next season. Not one.

 

[Dubi Doo]

Adams has been unable to make a big move in 4 years as GM. I am not holding my breath that he makes a big move now.

His MO has been betting on "his guys" like Krebs. I think that is what we get.

Moves could possibly happen. But, I would not bet on it.

I'd say the Mitts for Byram trade was a big move, but I do agree- I think we're largely set with the roster.

 

[Jim Bob]

No matter how you look at it, it’s a lottery team. Not a single person in the media will have this team cracking 90 points next season. Not one.

Honestly, I could not care less what people in the media predict for this team.

Nobody in the media would have predicted that they would have been 1 point out of the playoffs in 2022-23.

Adams is placing big bets on Lindy making a huge difference, having a real energy line making a huge difference, bounce back seasons from Thompson, Tuch, Cozens, and Quinn, growth from guys like Peterka, Benson, Krebs, Power, and Byram, and he's betting on UPL+Levi giving them solid goaltending.

That is a big parlay that is less than 50% to pay off. But, given where the team is at with regards to their reputation around the league, this is about what I would expect.

 

[Matt Ress]

I don’t mind the offseason additions. It’s nice to have a legit 4th line now with an identity.

With that being said though - how many times did we lose games because of our 4th line last year? After how many losses did we think to ourselves “Gee, if we had a physical 4th line, that game would’ve had a totally different result”.

Wasn’t the issue more so on guys like Dylan Cozens? Did we do anything to potentially mitigate the damage of him not figuring out his game?

Did we take any steps to ensure that Tage + Tuch (amongst others) will bounce back?

Did acquire anybody to help the power play?

Did we acquire a better partner for Power? (Assuming Byram - Dahlin will be the top pairing).

It seems like the answer for most of the above is just “Ruff will fix it” and “I believe they will bounce back”. Yikes.

I get this and I'm disappointed that Zucker is the "top 6 addition" and there's still really just 2 quality centers in the lineup, if everything is set.

My optimistic side tells me that the important players will come in healthy and embarrassed by last year's performance and are already working hard to improve. Pairing that with some NHL coaching and they should be a playoff team. Being ready for the season, able to break through trap play, being ready on a game by game basis and bringing some energy and physicality when it's needed.

But they could also fall on their faces. We really don't know what team will come to play in October.

 

[joshjull]

That's a level headed tweet. Risky business going in the season with Krebs as 3C and the defense the way it is. Let's hope for a big move.

I’m not sure they’re counting on him to be the 3C. I’m not sure where they expect him to be.


Adams was all over the place after he was asked if Krebs would be the 3C. Paraphrasing his comments….

“Krebs still a young player. He showed signs late last year of starting to understand the defensive part of the game. He is a very very competitive kid. He’s getting better in different areas. He has great vision, he has great offensive skill, we know that and now he’s still going to find his way. I think there is a chance for his upside to be a player who plays further up the lineup. Whether thats as a center, which we believe he is, or maybe eventually could he slide to the wing? Yeah, we’re open to that. But what I really like is that we have a group of players that Lindy and the staff can decide how to put the lines together.

Thats a lot or worlds to not actually say one way or another if he’ll be the 3C.

 

[Jim Bob]

I'd say the Mitts for Byram trade was a big move, but I do agree- I think we're largely set with the roster.

That trade is still a "hockey trade" and not a "buying an impact player" trade.

And personally, I think they are likely to be worse for that trade this season than better. I am not a Krebs Stan. And Krebs needs to take a huge step forward for that deal to not bite them in the rear this season.

 

[TehDoak]

I'd let go of JJ, not Quinn, IMHO.

I would probably do it based off handedness

Left Shot wingers:

Peterka
Zucker
Benson
Greenway


Right Shot wingers:

Tuch
Quinn


So as of now, you are going to have one forward play his off wing in your top 9.

So, if I am moving Quinn, I def. don't want to get a Left shot winger back. If I am moving Peterka, I could go either side.

I think you probably need a bit of a bigger fish than Konecny or Boeser to make worth it.

However, we already can add approx 8-10M to our long term salary with no major issues.

If you remove one of Quinn/Peterka, that goes up to 14-16M of long term flexibility.

 

[Gabrielor]

Adams has been unable to make a big move in 4 years as GM. I am not holding my breath that he makes a big move now.

His MO has been betting on "his guys" like Krebs. I think that is what we get.

Moves could possibly happen. But, I would not bet on it.

I'd say the Mitts for Byram trade was a big move, but I do agree- I think we're largely set with the roster.

Moves pretty much still need to happen, or fans shouldn't go.

The current roster is an easy bottom 10 pick, no matter how much i believe in Krebs.

 

[joshjull]

He’s literally been saying that for years and has never pulled the trigger so fans don’t believe him anymore.

It’s just lip service — he actually isn’t open to bringing anyone in unless they’re willing to take an unreasonably low salary with a very short term, which will never happen.


That’s 100% different from saying they don’t want to come because your team always loses and your city is cold and shitty.


I’ll take “things Adams would never do in a million years” for 100, Alex.

It’s perfectly reasonable to assume Adams wont do anything. But that’s different than claiming he said he’s done.

 

[Diaspora]

I'd let go of JJ, not Quinn, IMHO.

Either of them could have a huge breakout this year. I wouldn't do it now.

But I could see it happening next summer. Or maybe at TDL.