The Roster Thread, Summer 2024

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He already did once. The only places he would let Carolina move him were Buffalo and Toronto.
Exactly.

That's why I said it'd be hard to trade him, and it would take a specific set of circumstances involving Toronto.

Hypothetical: Toronto trades Marner for a goalie and players. They effectively lose the Domi - Marner - Bertuzzi line. Their top lines are centered by AM and Tavares. They trade nothing of value for Skinner and Buffalo retains 50%. Toronto gets a 5v5 scorer to drive their 3rd line (kind of what Edmonton was originally thinking with Evander Kane).

That's a pretty specific set of circumstances, so I don't see him getting moved.
 
Exactly.

That's why I said it'd be hard to trade him, and it would take a specific set of circumstances involving Toronto.

Hypothetical: Toronto trades Marner for a goalie and players. They effectively lose the Domi - Marner - Bertuzzi line. Their top lines are centered by AM and Tavares. They trade nothing of value for Skinner and Buffalo retains 50%. Toronto gets a 5v5 scorer to drive their 3rd line (kind of what Edmonton was originally thinking with Evander Kane).

That's a pretty specific set of circumstances, so I don't see him getting moved.

Idk... Probably only 3 more seasons left in his career... might be more palatable to be away for only 3 seasons as opposed of the 8 or 9 seasons back then.
 



The Sabres move back and help out the Islanders cap situation.

OK...

Not only helping the Isles cap situation with a cooked player but also taking on a failed prospect who is the poster child I have about fears over Eiserman... all to move down 9 spots? Oh, that 2nd rounder too. :eyeroll:
 
Step 1: Hire Kyle Okposo into the Sabres front office

Step 2: Have Kyle "innocently" tell Skinner over lunch and/or dinner how exciting and fun it was to finally be on a winning team and play in the playoffs. Include discussions about how many ex-Sabres went on to immediately win Cups and enjoy the playoffs.

Step 3: Repeat step 2 as needed.

Step 4: Skinner willingly waives his No Movement Clause.

Win/Win. :D
 
Step 1: Hire Kyle Okposo into the Sabres front office

Step 2: Have Kyle "innocently" tell Skinner over lunch and/or dinner how exciting and fun it was to finally be on a winning team and play in the playoffs. Include discussions about how many ex-Sabres went on to immediately win Cups and enjoy the playoffs.

Step 3: Repeat step 2 as needed.

Step 4: Skinner willingly waives his No Movement Clause.

Win/Win. :D
Okie actually doing something to help the franchise Lol.
 
Utah hockey club will be interesting to watch next season.

LeBrun said they are committed to their rebuild, but will use their cap space in the short term. Example: pay a UFA the same money for two years that they are offered by another team over 3 years. This is something I wanted Buffalo to do the last few years.

I say interesting because even if they have a great summer, they may or may not have success next season.

The one thing they have going for them is that they have ownership that free agent players will trust over Buffalo.
 
I’m a big Levi truther, so I don’t mind giving UPL a shorter term deal and risk having him walk at UFA.

Obviously that comes with a risk (as does every move, and you can’t always reasonably hedge the risk).
 
That actually isn't a bad deal, assuming the 16 team NTC isn't a hill to climb.

Pageau has 2 years left on his deal at 5M per. He checks all the boxes of what we need as a utility center (PK, faceoffs, high dzone starts)

If they are throwing in a 2nd and Wahlstrom, who would be a 12th/13th forward (former 11th OA pick and only 23, so likely some upside left there as well)

if the traded is 11th OA for 20th OA + 54th + Pageau + Wahlstrom, you are basically getting Pageau + Wahlstrom for a early-mid 2nd round pick. in value.
Thus is quite bad

11 vs 20 cost more than a 2nd
JGP has negative value.
Buffalo needs cap space next yr
Wzhlstrom us waiver fodder

..
 
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I don't get where this "Pegula doesn't want to spend the money" stuff is coming from. A lot of the economical and efficient cuts came from operations under the entities under umbrella. I think there is a lot of missed context in that.
 
I don't get where this "Pegula doesn't want to spend the money" stuff is coming from. A lot of the economical and efficient cuts came from operations under the entities under umbrella. I think there is a lot of missed context in that.

We've been bottom 3 in payroll the last 3 years.

We've refused to retained salaries despite teams getting free assets to do so.

And they've cut on operations too.

This summer is the proof in the pudding. Adams has talked about 'winning now', that should mean spending to or at least close to the cap.
 
We've been bottom 3 in payroll the last 3 years.

We've refused to retained salaries despite teams getting free assets to do so.

And they've cut on operations too.

This summer is the proof in the pudding. Adams has talked about 'winning now', that should mean spending to or at least close to the cap.
This last year was the first year where it wasn't a developmental year, so spending should have been at a minimum. They have paid for Hall, Johnson and Clifton so spending money isn't the problem especially since two of the three didn't even last the season. They handed out deals to Cozens, Thompson, Dahlin, Power and Samuelsson. Them being bottom three in payroll has to do more with ElC's and future cap than lack of want to spend.

I wouldn't retain on salaries either, we have a glut of prospects with not a lot of wholes to fill. Why add mid round picks and burn through real money and developmental resources for said mid round picks. Now if someone was offering a 1st or 2nd to retain, then we can talk.

Cutting operations is fine if you can sustain the same level of quality and your not burning out. Scouting department still seems to be getting it done. This off-season is seeing Adams first draft review and so far, he has done well with Quinn and JJ. Costantini was a long play pick that seems to be doing well at WMU. The two seventh rounds didn't pan out.

They should be spending to the cap this season just based on the contracts they already have, they should have about 18 million to fill 8 spots.

There is a lot of context and planning that go into the "spend" and if Pegula didn't want to spend money then we would have had a another Drury/Briere last off-season with Cozens and Thompson.

It's just a weird notion to think Pegula isn't spending when we can clearly see it is happening. /Rant
 
This last year was the first year where it wasn't a developmental year, so spending should have been at a minimum. They have paid for Hall, Johnson and Clifton so spending money isn't the problem especially since two of the three didn't even last the season. They handed out deals to Cozens, Thompson, Dahlin, Power and Samuelsson. Them being bottom three in payroll has to do more with ElC's and future cap than lack of want to spend.

They shouldn't have had as many ELCs, that was part of the problem. The Sabres should have surrounded their good young players with quality vets. They treated the Buffalo roster as a developmental one, even though there is an entire team dedicated to that in Rochester. They came out with the selling point of 'not blocking the kids' but the reality was 'not paying for vets'. Sure, its not like UFAs were lining up to come here, but plenty of opportunity to supplement the team with better vets than Hinostroza, Jost, Pysyk, Butcher, and Bjork.

The fact that they had to use the LTIR loophole to get to the floor shows you they were actively looking to not spend.


I wouldn't retain on salaries either, we have a glut of prospects with not a lot of wholes to fill. Why add mid round picks and burn through real money and developmental resources for said mid round picks. Now if someone was offering a 1st or 2nd to retain, then we can talk.

Because you can use those mid round picks for other assets later. You can use them to move up, you can use them to sweeten deals. Draft picks are capital. Cap Space is capital. You are essentially trading one for the other in some deals. The problem is that the team was unwilling to spend the real dollars behind the cap space.


Cutting operations is fine if you can sustain the same level of quality and your not burning out. Scouting department still seems to be getting it done. This off-season is seeing Adams first draft review and so far, he has done well with Quinn and JJ. Costantini was a long play pick that seems to be doing well at WMU. The two seventh rounds didn't pan out.

It's far too early to make any prognacations on the drafting of the 'efficient, effective' model. However, I will say whatever grading they are using is heavily favoring undersized skilled forwards to the point where it seems that is the massive majority of our prospect pool. The ratios of forward to d-men before last years draft was stupidly high.

They should be spending to the cap this season just based on the contracts they already have, they should have about 18 million to fill 8 spots.

We shall see. I'm realistically expecting them to add 2 forwards (a 4th line center and a middle six forward) and have 2 more ELC contracts to fill out the roster. I could easily see them coming into cap 8M under the cap again. Like I said, we'll see.


There is a lot of context and planning that go into the "spend" and if Pegula didn't want to spend money then we would have had a another Drury/Briere last off-season with Cozens and Thompson.

That is just silly. No one was ever suggesting they go out and spend to the cap. Nearish the midpoint is more typical for rebuilding teams, and avoiding long term entaglements. The idea if we would have added 1 quality vet per summer from 2021-2024 it would have caused any cap issues is silly.

It's just a weird notion to think Pegula isn't spending when we can clearly see it is happening. /Rant

They spent 8M under the cap this year. If you are seeing 2 years of sub cap floor spending and 1 year where they were at the bottom of the league in spending and you think the Pegula is financially committed to winning, I'm not sure there is any convincing you otherwise. It's clearly he's pulled back resources from the team, and in one case (22-23) it directly led to them missing the playoffs after a dozen year playoff drought.
 
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I don't get where this "Pegula doesn't want to spend the money" stuff is coming from. A lot of the economical and efficient cuts came from operations under the entities under umbrella. I think there is a lot of missed context in that.
We can’t seriously be heading into year four of this.

You don’t know where it’s coming from? Its origin eludes you? You can’t think of one possible reason for its existence?
 
I don't get where this "Pegula doesn't want to spend the money" stuff is coming from. A lot of the economical and efficient cuts came from operations under the entities under umbrella. I think there is a lot of missed context in that.
the best sabres teams of this millennia come under an owner with an internal cap and a cash in cash out policy, theres some context
 
the best sabres teams of this millennia come under an owner with an internal cap and a cash in cash out policy, theres some context

The circumstances that created the 05-06 team are so dependent on a NHL lockout and massive rule changes it would be impossible to recreate. That same owners policies led to the team being torn apart after two years.
 
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Kaliyev asked for a trade out of of LA, I don't know if Adams would have interest. I think Chicago should be all over it. Big winger aged 21 to help with their rebuild.

Problem with Kaliyev is I think he thinks he should be top 6 but I see him as a 3rd line guy who can put up 40 in his prime, maybe even 50-55 but ultimately plateaus around 40-45.
 
Kaliyev asked for a trade out of of LA, I don't know if Adams would have interest. I think Chicago should be all over it. Big winger aged 21 to help with their rebuild.

Problem with Kaliyev is I think he thinks he should be top 6 but I see him as a 3rd line guy who can put up 40 in his prime, maybe even 50-55 but ultimately plateaus around 40-45.
I don't think he's quite the type of player we need.
 
I'd like to want in Devils Haula + Marino, and wouldn't mind moving on from Jokiharju and Krebs (if necessary).
 
Kaliyev asked for a trade out of of LA, I don't know if Adams would have interest. I think Chicago should be all over it. Big winger aged 21 to help with their rebuild.

Problem with Kaliyev is I think he thinks he should be top 6 but I see him as a 3rd line guy who can put up 40 in his prime, maybe even 50-55 but ultimately plateaus around 40-45.
Kaliyev turns 23 later this month.
Hes 6-3.

I see him as as s bottom 6 who might only put up 30-35.
 
I'd like to want in Devils Haula + Marino, and wouldn't mind moving on from Jokiharju and Krebs (if necessary).
Why would they trade them? Thry are not cap strapped yet.

Jokihatjj in arb likely gets $4M. Haula is a little over $3M. Krebs can ask for around $1.5M.

Cap wise if might be $2M less cap to NJ
 
The circumstances that created the 05-06 team are so dependent on a NHL lockout and massive rule changes it would be impossible to recreate. That same owners policies led to the team being torn apart after two years.
Sure some changes occurred.

If they kept Drury and briere we might have gotten s cip over keeping vanek and keeping OS comp.

Thry likely gave as regu ln as r pkayoff team from 2006 playoffs thru 2012 pl as yoffs.

Depending on what was done with comp picks , they could have sustained the team longer but possibly still crashing in 2018-2021.
 
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