The Roster Thread, Summer 2024

[Chainshot]

Cap hit isn't too high for that long of a deal. I believe it ends in 28-29 season.

But I was just curious if he would be a guy Adams targets. Fits in the age range to add a vet to the team, adds an element this team lacks for a bottom 6 player, played his best hockey under our current coach.


Same here, but I'm just thinking of guys who Adams would be targeting, and he fits what we need for out bottom 6, he played his best hockey under our current coach, and I think he becomes a cap casualty for Colorado.

Trenin is a measurably better player defenisvely who can also play center. Duhaime is a measurably better player defensively. Both play the body with aplomb and verve, but don't hand everything back in the way Wood always has. That's the issue - there are UFA candidates to do the same job who have historically done it better. Joshua is probably pricing himself out with his Vancouver playoff and Carrier is Carrier in Vegas. I'd rather they offer any of those four the same exact deal as Wood's remaining five years at $2.5M than trade for Wood's deal because of how poor Wood's numbers are in both Jersey and Colorado in his own zone.

 

[Chainshot]

I'm skeptical that Adams covets him as a former player

Until such time as Adams shows he understands that they do in fact need more FU in the lineup as he upbraided Cozens for saying back in December, I don't think he would be interested either.

 

[OkimLom]

Trenin is a measurably better player defenisvely who can also play center. Duhaime is a measurably better player defensively. Both play the body with aplomb and verve, but don't hand everything back in the way Wood always has. That's the issue - there are UFA candidates to do the same job who have historically done it better. Joshua is probably pricing himself out with his Vancouver playoff and Carrier is Carrier in Vegas. I'd rather they offer any of those four the same exact deal as Wood's remaining five years at $2.5M than trade for Wood's deal because of how poor Wood's numbers are in both Jersey and Colorado in his own zone.

Okay, we can put them on the list of players Adams could/should be targeting.

 

[Fjordy]

Trenin > Wood (easy choice)

 

[Chainshot]

Okay, we can put them on the list of players Adams could/should be targeting.

Sure, though I wouldn't put him on a list. That he hits people is something teams can and do find. That deal is five more years and his defense has always been suspect. They can do better.

 

[Sabre the Win]

Wood is a terrible defensive player. Don't care if he's from Buffalo.

I'm so sick of hearing the pining of Wood's name every year, It seems like every off season someone is banging on Wood's name. Is he a bigger improvement over Girgensons? Personally I don't think so, Girgensons has better production and takes less penalty minutes in doing so.

I'd personally move on from Girgensons so Wood is a failure to upgrade this summer.

 

[Jim Bob]

Tkachuk is also third in the entire league in hitzzzzz

View attachment 866443

Discount it all you want but goals+assists+points+PIMs+hits really start to add up.

And as someone who has been watching him play in person since he was 16 what Brady brings on the ice is a lot more than what shows up on the scoresheet. Don't blame him for the disaster of the Senators franchise.

That graphic includes mostly players that I wouldn't want on the Sabres roster.

I like Tkachuk. I just hate the proposed trade, the likely trade cost to acquire him, and what the roster would look like if the offseason totaled out to adding Tkachuk and basically nothing else of note because getting Tkachuk used up all the trade assets Adams was willing to part with.

I do not believe that just Lindy as the head coach and adding Tkachuk would be enough to transform this team into a team that would be expected to make the playoffs in 2024-25 even if everything didn't break perfectly for them.

 

[TehDoak]

My current bargain summer shopping list:

Iafallo - 1 year left, Buffalo native, can help on second PK unit and play up and down the lineup.

Domi- Can play center and wing. Good at faceoffs. Bit of a POS. Not great defensively, but, may allow us to try out young centers (Savoie/Ostlund/etc) next year and can plug in full time if things don't work out. Would help with o-zone draws a bunch.

Blueger - Faceoff ace and PK guy. Curious if Vancouver lets him go. Maybe Girgensons can help recruit?

Edit: Add Sam Carrick as an alternative to Blueger. Good 4th line utility guy with FO's

 

[Der Jaeger]

There is not proven quality NHL leadership on this roster. If there were, then the narrative at locker clean out day would not have been that they need accountability. The leadership in the room would have held people accountable and to a higher standard than they obviously did.

And if you listen to Brady and others at Ottawa's locker clean out day, I don't get the feeling that Brady is a great leader of men that drags his teammates kicking and screaming to better things.

I am not basing this on Eichel alone. It is the experience for the past decade plus and how they have not surrounding the young players with the right type of veteran leaders that this team needs. I think spending a ton of trade assets for a guy that turns 25yo later this year and has been pressed into leadership too soon and with a similar lack of quality veteran leadership support is not the kind of move that I would be really high on working out well.

I think the priority needs to be adding veterans with real winning resumes and not another talented young player who has no experience of winning in the NHL.

I get the lack of leadership concern, but I'm not basing anything on what's said during locker clean out day. That's a poor assessment of leadership. We'd love to have someone like O'Reilly back, and his last Sabres locker clean out interview would indicate he should never wear a letter on his sweater again.

Some people are crappy at interviewing. Words are words. I'm interested in on ice leadership.

For the trade package that people are throwing around for Tkachuk, you could probably get Cirelli and Cernak out of TB.

I would definitely take Cirelli and Cernak over Brady Tkachuk.

Sure. But Tampa isn't trading either of them. It'd be silly of them to do so.

They've got 16 players under contract for next season with $12M in cap space. That's easy. Cirelli and Cernak are younger players on their roster. If they need to shed some sap space, they can off-load Sheary. Here's their lineup for next season:

LW: Hagel, Jeannot, Eyssimont, Sheary
C: Point, Cirelli, Paul, Glendening, Brown
RW: Kucherov
D: Hedman, Sergachev, Cernak, Perbix
G: Vasilevskiy

Brisebois needs to sign 3 defenseman, 4 forwards, and a goalie for $12M. He rides out one more season with no rookies coming into the system, then focuses on rebuilding the organization's depth. He signs mostly low end free agents until after next season. He's got the option to trade Hedman (doubt he does by the way they worked the Stamkos situation) and Jeannot before the TDL.

The last move he should make is to trade two 27 years olds (Cirelli and Cernak next season). Throw Point, Sergachev, and Hagel into that group as well. If you're trading those two for futures, you might as well just tear the whole thing down. Which Tampa has no indication of even considering.

 

[Jacob582]

Some people are crappy at interviewing. Words are words.

You want your captain to be not crappy at interviewing though.

 

[Jim Bob]

I get the lack of leadership concern, but I'm not basing anything on what's said during locker clean out day. That's a poor assessment of leadership. We'd love to have someone like O'Reilly back, and his last Sabres locker clean out interview would indicate he should never wear a letter on his sweater again.

Some people are crappy at interviewing. Words are words. I'm interested in on ice leadership.

Sure. But Tampa isn't trading either of them. It'd be silly of them to do so.

They've got 16 players under contract for next season with $12M in cap space. That's easy. Cirelli and Cernak are younger players on their roster. If they need to shed some sap space, they can off-load Sheary. Here's their lineup for next season:

LW: Hagel, Jeannot, Eyssimont, Sheary
C: Point, Cirelli, Paul, Glendening, Brown
RW: Kucherov
D: Hedman, Sergachev, Cernak, Perbix
G: Vasilevskiy

Brisebois needs to sign 3 defenseman, 4 forwards, and a goalie for $12M. He rides out one more season with no rookies coming into the system, then focuses on rebuilding the organization's depth. He signs mostly low end free agents until after next season. He's got the option to trade Hedman (doubt he does by the way they worked the Stamkos situation) and Jeannot before the TDL.

The last move he should make is to trade two 27 years olds (Cirelli and Cernak next season). Throw Point, Sergachev, and Hagel into that group as well. If you're trading those two for futures, you might as well just tear the whole thing down. Which Tampa has no indication of even considering.

The same is likely true about Ottawa and Brady Tkachuk who is their young captain.

And I bet neither team wants to help out the division rival Sabres.

Adams likely has to deal with teams like Vegas and Minnesota.

 

[Jim Bob]

 

[Willgamesh]

god please no, f*** old washed players.

 

[Der Jaeger]

You want your captain to be not crappy at interviewing though.

I'll take it if he's effective in the locker room, on ice, and off ice. It's not a significant priority for a team who needs leadership.

The same is likely true about Ottawa and Brady Tkachuk who is their young captain.

And I bet neither team wants to help out the division rival Sabres.

Adams likely has to deal with teams like Vegas and Minnesota.

That I can get behind for sure.

 

[toddkaz]

He has a NMC. Why would he waive to come here?

Also a free agent after next year. Doesn't make sense to give up assets for a pending UFA that will be 34 years old next year.

 

[Gras]

He has a NMC. Why would he waive to come here?

Also a free agent after next year. Doesn't make sense to give up assets for a pending UFA that will be 34 years old next year.

What if its Skinner going the other way?

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

What if its Skinner going the other way?

What are the Sabres giving up to get Tavares and to ditch skinners contract? Because Toronto would move on from him so that they can use his cap hit elsewhere. There’d have to be a brinks truck of cost controlled top tier assets to pull that off.

 

[Irie]

Can you site the bolded?

I worded that poorly, I apologize, what I meant was that the few instances that follow the perceived scoring model are usually players that enter the league as teenagers. the Crosby's and Ovechkins, and their declines at earlier ages are often due to injuries, as they have a lot of miles on their bodies at a young age.

That final paragraph makes very little sense. If you truly believe there's no way or point to take a look at thousands of players and make generalizations I don't know what to say. I find that profoundly myopic. It's certainly appears supported by 'overwhelming factual.. career statistics' that players score more points earlier in their career than later. There was no data manipulation in compiling raw scoring totals.

What I am saying is that the statement that player's scoring peaks in their early 20s is not statistically a thing. I believe it is data manipulation, as they are including the D and bottom six players that typically enter the league at 25+ into the equation and the snapshot of scoring by age drops dramatically due to the faulty science behind the data collection,

Let's look at any random sample. Let's take the remaining playoff teams and look at their top 5 players top scoring years(PPG - not total points due to missed time and shortened seasons). (I will exclude players 23 and younger because we can not know how they are going to score at 25, 26, 27+ etc yet.

Player - Top scoring age year
Carolina
Aho - 26 (so far, he is only 26)
Teravainen - 24
Skjei - 30
Burns - 33
Noesn - 31
Boston
Pastrnak - 26
Marchand 30
Coyle - 31
Zacha - 27
Debrusk - 26
MacAvoy - 24 (but he is only 26 and has started each of the past two seasons injured, and his point totals are not far off that 24 season)
Florida
Reinhart - 28
Tkachuk - 25
Barkov - 23 (came in as an 18 year old and got injured at 24 - this is what I was referring to above)
Verhaeghe - 27
Bennett - 25
Rangers
Panarin - 32
Trocheck - 30
Kreider - 31
Zibanejad - 30
Fox - 26 (this year he is 26 and has his highest PPG number, but missed some time with injury.)

Would you like me to continue with the west? It's the same story. Mackinnon -28, Rantannen -26, Druoin -29, Nichuskin -29, McDavid -26, Hintz - 26, Draisaitl -27, Nugent-Hopkins -30, Pavelski - 37, Duchene - 30.

Take any team in the league. Look at the roster up and down. Look at all the players top scoring years, and you are going to find very few who peaked by 23. It just is not a thing, and I can not for the life of me figure out how these folks came to their conclussions. It has to be measuring points scored by age league-wide, and the 25 age range drops off as a whole when looking at the entire league because that is the age D and bottom six defensive players typically become fulltime players in the league (on average) and their data joins the datapool.

 

[Gras]

What are the Sabres giving up to get Tavares and to ditch skinners contract? Because Toronto would move on from him so that they can use his cap hit elsewhere. There’d have to be a brinks truck of cost controlled top tier assets to pull that off.

Skinner @50% gets them 6.5 in cap space, I would also imagine TML will try and move on from Marner this offseason too.

 

[Chainshot]

What if its Skinner going the other way?

The Leafs are likely to try to move on from Tavares and Marner if they can for very little in return. Seems like they'll want cap flexibility. Sending Skinner back doesn't do that.

 

[toddkaz]

What if its Skinner going the other way?

And our 1st round pick? Why would Toronto take the salary without getting something out of it?

Anyone who takes Skinner's contract is gonna want a 1st round pick.

Of course I would trade Skinner for Tavares straight up but Toronto isn't going to.

The Leafs are likely to try to move on from Tavares and Marner if they can for very little in return. Seems like they'll want cap flexibility. Sending Skinner back doesn't do that.

I don't see the leafs trading Marner but Tavares could be traded if he is willing to waive. He would be a great pick up for a team like Edmonton or Vancouver. Teams who can compete now and dont mind the warts.

 

[MOGlLNY]

My current bargain summer shopping list:

Iafallo - 1 year left, Buffalo native, can help on second PK unit and play up and down the lineup.

Domi- Can play center and wing. Good at faceoffs. Bit of a POS. Not great defensively, but, may allow us to try out young centers (Savoie/Ostlund/etc) next year and can plug in full time if things don't work out. Would help with o-zone draws a bunch.

Blueger - Faceoff ace and PK guy. Curious if Vancouver lets him go. Maybe Girgensons can help recruit?

Edit: Add Sam Carrick as an alternative to Blueger. Good 4th line utility guy with FO's

Highly doubt Domi moves on from Toronto

 

[TehDoak]

Re: Tavares/Skinner

The only reason this COULD make some sense is that the buyout of Skinner is 15M over 6 years and the buyout of Tavares is like a 10M dead cap.

We'd likely have to retain salary and I don't know what happens if we retain and then they buyout.

 

[Gras]

And our 1st round pick? Why would Toronto take the salary without getting something out of it?

Anyone who takes Skinner's contract is gonna want a 1st round pick.

Of course I would trade Skinner for Tavares straight up but Toronto isn't going to.


I don't see the leafs trading Marner but Tavares could be traded if he is willing to waive. He would be a great pick up for a team like Edmonton or Vancouver. Teams who can compete now and dont mind the warts.

If they don't trade Marner he walks for nothing next summer because he's going to want at least his current cap hit if not more on an extension and he disappears in the playoffs.

Re: Tavares/Skinner

The only reason this COULD make some sense is that the buyout of Skinner is 15M over 6 years and the buyout of Tavares is like a 10M dead cap.

We'd likely have to retain salary and I don't know what happens if we retain and then they buyout.

Happened with OEL so the Yotes got hit with whatever the Retained Salary % was for the dead cap of the length of the buyout.

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

 

[toddkaz]

If they don't trade Marner he walks for nothing next summer because he's going to want at least his current cap hit if not more on an extension and he disappears in the playoffs.

I think the leafs pay him. He has a NMC so unless he waives he stays and resigns or walks for nothing.

Tavares comes off the books and Marner gets paid.