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The Roster Thread, Summer 2024

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Also makes so much more sense roster construction wise and not squeezing out your prospects to keep an inept skinner on your team’s third line.

You can wait it out one more year and still make that (signing the next wave) work but Adams job is on the line if they miss this year. Why they’re gonna do it now apparently
 
I'm all for getting Skinner off the roster. I never liked him in Carolina, didn't like the trade to get him, didn't like his last contract. Haven't changed my mind about any of that.

But...

Sure, a buyout saves 7.5 mil next season, and then only saves 4.5 mil the next, and then only saves 2.5 mil in what would've been his final season under contract. Then for three straight years when Skinner wouldn't be a Sabres problem anymore, they'll still have a 2.5 mil cap hit due to his buyout. His contract is a problem no matter what way you try to slice it. So would you rather have that problem during the next three seasons when the odds of Buffalo being a Cup contender are low, or during the three seasons after that when all these young players are square in their prime and (theoretically) in the best stage of their careers to win something?

Let's say Skinner is a terrible player/person/example for the young players. He's one guy, that isn't spiraling down a path of substance abuse or physically/sexually assaulting women. He's a far cry from truly terrible examples of human beings that have worn a Sabres sweater in the recent past. If the roster and coaching staff is incapable of forming a disciplined and successful team in the face of Skinner being on the team, I strongly suspect that the team just doesn't have what it takes anyway.

I hate the guy as a player, but he isn't a terrible person aside from on-ice work ethic. While it's a noble thought to ditch that lacking work ethic as an example to others, the late stage of the buyout won't justify the cost of a decent depth player or two for three seasons when they should be contending for a Cup.
 
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Beerz said:
It's not because he is a lockerroom cancer. I can tell u that.

And I agree if you're not going to use him on top line he is going to be a net negative on another line most likely. I think he can still do the top line and would like to see that...but Peterka made that really hard to do.

If it does happen I believe it is to clear cap for this year. Adams knows he has to make playoffs this year.
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That's definitely true. Marek said a few weeks ago that it's playoffs or bust for Buffalo and if they fail heads will roll. This is a key offseason for Adams and I'm sure he'll be listening to every word Lindy says as well. I think buyout Skinner makes a lot of sense, the cap will go up anyway and we'll be stocking our roster with ELС players. But this season may be key.
 
Sabresfansince1980 said:
I'm all for getting Skinner off the roster. I never liked him in Carolina, didn't like the trade to get him, didn't like his last contract. Haven't changed my mind about any of that.

But...

Sure, a buyout saves 7.5 mil next season, and then only saves 4.5 mil the next, and then only saves 2.5 mil in what would've been his final season under contract. Then for three straight years when Skinner wouldn't be a Sabres problem anymore, they'll still have a 2.5 mil cap hit due to his buyout. His contract is a problem no matter what way you try to slice it. So would you rather have that problem during the next three seasons when the odds of Buffalo being a Cup contender are low, or during the three seasons after that when all these young players are square in their prime and (theoretically) in the best stage of their careers to win something?

Let's say Skinner is a terrible player/person/example for the young players. He's one guy, that isn't spiraling down a path of substance abuse or physically/sexually assaulting women. He's a far cry from truly terrible examples of human beings that have worn a Sabres sweater in the recent past. If the roster and coaching staff is incapable of forming a disciplined and successful team in the face of Skinner being on the team, I strongly suspect that the team just doesn't have what it takes anyway.

I hate the guy as a player, but he isn't a terrible person aside from on-ice work ethic. While it's a noble thought to ditch that lacking work ethic as an example to others, the late stage of the buyout won't justify the cost of a decent depth player or two for three seasons when they should be contending for a Cup.
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While I don’t disagree that skinner isn’t a bad person at all. That shouldn’t be your bar for what a bad example is to young players. Refusal to put effort into defense + work ethic (I can’t speak to that - I’m not in the room) is what the bar should be for examples.

Players committing crimes anybody knows should not be followed.
 
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MOGlLNY said:
Also makes so much more sense roster construction wise and not squeezing out your prospects to keep an inept skinner on your team’s third line.

You can wait it out one more year and still make that (signing the next wave) work but Adams job is on the line if they miss this year. Why they’re gonna do it now apparently
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I thought you didn't believe it because Friedmann and Adams don't like each other?
 
Sabresfansince1980 said:
I'm all for getting Skinner off the roster. I never liked him in Carolina, didn't like the trade to get him, didn't like his last contract. Haven't changed my mind about any of that.

But...

Sure, a buyout saves 7.5 mil next season, and then only saves 4.5 mil the next, and then only saves 2.5 mil in what would've been his final season under contract. Then for three straight years when Skinner wouldn't be a Sabres problem anymore, they'll still have a 2.5 mil cap hit due to his buyout. His contract is a problem no matter what way you try to slice it. So would you rather have that problem during the next three seasons when the odds of Buffalo being a Cup contender are low, or during the three seasons after that when all these young players are square in their prime and (theoretically) in the best stage of their careers to win something?

Let's say Skinner is a terrible player/person/example for the young players. He's one guy, that isn't spiraling down a path of substance abuse or physically/sexually assaulting women. He's a far cry from truly terrible examples of human beings that have worn a Sabres sweater in the recent past. If the roster and coaching staff is incapable of forming a disciplined and successful team in the face of Skinner being on the team, I strongly suspect that the team just doesn't have what it takes anyway.

I hate the guy as a player, but he isn't a terrible person aside from on-ice work ethic. While it's a noble thought to ditch that lacking work ethic as an example to others, the late stage of the buyout won't justify the cost of a decent depth player or two for three seasons when they should be contending for a Cup.
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You can look for some two year deals that will expire when his contract buyout is expensive. The rest isn't much money. If you make a few smart additions and Lindy gets some of these players back on track, you are a competing team for two years with maybe a retool year on year 3 from the buyout.
 
Sabresfansince1980 said:
I'm all for getting Skinner off the roster. I never liked him in Carolina, didn't like the trade to get him, didn't like his last contract. Haven't changed my mind about any of that.

But...

Sure, a buyout saves 7.5 mil next season, and then only saves 4.5 mil the next, and then only saves 2.5 mil in what would've been his final season under contract. Then for three straight years when Skinner wouldn't be a Sabres problem anymore, they'll still have a 2.5 mil cap hit due to his buyout. His contract is a problem no matter what way you try to slice it. So would you rather have that problem during the next three seasons when the odds of Buffalo being a Cup contender are low, or during the three seasons after that when all these young players are square in their prime and (theoretically) in the best stage of their careers to win something?

Let's say Skinner is a terrible player/person/example for the young players. He's one guy, that isn't spiraling down a path of substance abuse or physically/sexually assaulting women. He's a far cry from truly terrible examples of human beings that have worn a Sabres sweater in the recent past. If the roster and coaching staff is incapable of forming a disciplined and successful team in the face of Skinner being on the team, I strongly suspect that the team just doesn't have what it takes anyway.

I hate the guy as a player, but he isn't a terrible person aside from on-ice work ethic. While it's a noble thought to ditch that lacking work ethic as an example to others, the late stage of the buyout won't justify the cost of a decent depth player or two for three seasons when they should be contending for a Cup.
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I don't see a problem with buyout if they don't need him on the roster. Every team does that. We've been sitting there for 13 years without the playoffs and this is a key season for Adams.
 
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Many upthread have said parts of this, but I'll post my 2 cents anyways.

After the season the Sabres just had - one in which the players seemed incapable of consistently breaking out of the "just get out there, play, and don't worry about mistakes" while using a system that was pretty much just get out there and play - a season that ended up with a coaching change with the new coach pretty much saying that the team's attitude has to change to be more competitive and tougher to play against - I can't think of a worse player to have on the team than Skinner. He's a guy who can ruin the spirit and intent of the transition that Ruff will be trying to make just by being himself - a player who does whatever the f'k he wants whenever the f'k he wants to do it.

Classic example of the bad apple, IMO and worth the 6 year buyout vs keeping him around another year. I'd take Rosen, any day on the team over him. Or any of the other top prospect for that matter.
 
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MOGlLNY said:
While I don’t disagree that skinner isn’t a bad person at all. That shouldn’t be your bar for what a bad example is to young players. Refusal to put effort into defense + work ethic (I can’t speak to that - I’m not in the room) is what the bar should be for examples.

Players committing crimes anybody knows should not be followed.
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I didn't set that bar. I simply say that one guy that doesn't back check or play a team game is not too much to overcome, and not enough to hold a team back by itself. That's assuming he is totally hopeless under a real coach, which is a bit of a guess. I prefer he be a problem for the next three years while Buffalo is still on the low end of SC odds...not for another three years after when they should be on the high end.
 
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Sabresfansince1980 said:
I didn't set that bar. I simply say that one guy that doesn't back check or play a team game is not too much to overcome, and not enough to hold a team back by itself. That's assuming he is totally hopeless under a real coach, which is a bit of a guess. I prefer he be a problem for the nest three years while Buffalo is still on the low end of SC odds...not for another three years after when they should be on the high end.
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True but in the role he’s been in and has to be in in order to succeed (top 6, PP, etc), he definitely is an issue.

Obviously ridding ourselves of Jeff isn’t gonna let us waltz in we have a lot more work to do. But it’s a step
 
MOGlLNY said:
True but in the role he’s been in and has to be in in order to succeed (top 6, PP, etc), he definitely is an issue.

Obviously ridding ourselves of Jeff isn’t gonna let us waltz in we have a lot more work to do. But it’s a step
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A step that you have to pay for, for long after he and his contract could be gone for good.
 
MOGlLNY said:
True but in the role he’s been in and has to be in in order to succeed (top 6, PP, etc), he definitely is an issue.

Obviously ridding ourselves of Jeff isn’t gonna let us waltz in we have a lot more work to do. But it’s a step
Click to expand...

I don't think he needs PP to be successful but he definitely needs to be replaced on the PP if I had my way.
 
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MOGlLNY said:
I said be skeptical because they have an icy relationship. I’m not allowed to talk about it because I posted that?

What’s up your asshole today?
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Probably heart burn from the terrible trade proposal he made and how universally it was shit on ...time to bully someone back...
 
Sabresfansince1980 said:
I didn't set that bar. I simply say that one guy that doesn't back check or play a team game is not too much to overcome, and not enough to hold a team back by itself. That's assuming he is totally hopeless under a real coach, which is a bit of a guess. I prefer he be a problem for the next three years while Buffalo is still on the low end of SC odds...not for another three years after when they should be on the high end.
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Nothing is guaranteed. GMs don't think that long down the line. You have to be around for that, which means getting through the next couple of seasons. All of the GMS of those really bad teams that got high draft picks and won a cup, only Lombardi of LA was the GM through those bad years and was around as GM for the cup. Talon was replaced by Bowman but stayed on as a senior advisor before Chicago won. To get to the payoff you have to show that you can turn it around, which Adams has yet to do.

Adams and Ruff would have discussed roster during the interviews and if one of the moves Ruff recommends is getting rid of Skinner, I get that.... At some point, you just rip the bandaid off. Like the Bills did with Diggs.

Sabres have a good number of players under contract for the bulk of the buyout period. So, they know what their cap hit is going to be.

Skinner has made a lot of money. $3 mill rookie deal, plus $34 mill 2nd contract plus $50 mill of the $72 mill of this deal. Somewhere around $87 mill. Plus, a buyout will give him another $14.67 mill to get him to basically $102 mill. I think he'd trade some of the remaining $7.33 mill he needs to make up to be a UFA and decide on the next destination. Likely less money to go to a good team or a bit more money to a middle of the pack or lower team.
 
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Sabresfansince1980 said:
I fear a Skinner buyout is exactly because of what you posted - 13 yrs and KA feeling the heat to "do something".
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RBA kicked Skinner out of Canes, why can't Lindy? Jeff doesn't need anything, he gets 9 million and plays how he wants and when he wants. Maybe this is speculation for Jeff to give up his NMC in order to trade him. Maybe something else. But this season could really be a key one, and I don't think we should sit here and think that his buyout is unprofitable and it will be bad for us, in three years, we are not contenders, etc. We need to get to the playoffs and Kevyn should do everything for this, so as not to lose his job at the very least. If you need to trade or buy out Skinner, do it. Improve the team's roster and get to the playoffs.
 
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Fjordy said:
RBA kicked Skinner out of Canes, why can't Lindy? Jeff doesn't need anything, he gets 9 million and plays how he wants and when he wants. Maybe this is speculation for Jeff to give up his NMC in order to trade him. Maybe something else. But this season could really be a key one, and I don't think we should sit here and think that his buyout is unprofitable and it will be bad for us, in three years, we are not contenders, etc. We need to get to the playoffs and Kevyn should do everything for this, so as not to lose his job at the very least. If you need to trade or buy out Skinner, do it. Improve the team's roster and get to the playoffs.
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Unless Skinner wants every last cent of his contract, he's personally better off taking the buyout and signing with a team of his choosing. Similar to Suter/Parise. Suter made more money, but I think Skinner more in the Parise situation where he comes out behind of what he would have earned playing out the contract.
 
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StreetHawk said:
Nothing is guaranteed. GMs don't think that long down the line. You have to be around for that, which means getting through the next couple of seasons. All of the GMS of those really bad teams that got high draft picks and won a cup, only Lombardi of LA was the GM through those bad years and was around as GM for the cup. Talon was replaced by Bowman but stayed on as a senior advisor before Chicago won. To get to the payoff you have to show that you can turn it around, which Adams has yet to do.

Adams and Ruff would have discussed roster during the interviews and if one of the moves Ruff recommends is getting rid of Skinner, I get that.... At some point, you just rip the bandaid off. Like the Bills did with Diggs.

Sabres have a good number of players under contract for the bulk of the buyout period. So, they know what their cap hit is going to be.

Skinner has made a lot of money. $3 mill rookie deal, plus $34 mill 2nd contract plus $50 mill of the $72 mill of this deal. Somewhere around $87 mill. Plus, a buyout will give him another $14.67 mill to get him to basically $102 mill. I think he'd trade some of the remaining $7.33 mill he needs to make up to be a UFA and decide on the next destination. Likely less money to go to a good team or a bit more money to a middle of the pack or lower team.
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Fjordy said:
RBA kicked Skinner out of Canes, why can't Lindy? Jeff doesn't need anything, he gets 9 million and plays how he wants and when he wants. Maybe this is speculation for Jeff to give up his NMC in order to trade him. Maybe something else. But this season could really be a key one, and I don't think we should sit here and think that his buyout is unprofitable and it will be bad for us, in three years, we are not contenders, etc. We need to get to the playoffs and Kevyn should do everything for this, so as not to lose his job at the very least. If you need to trade or buy out Skinner, do it. Improve the team's roster and get to the playoffs.
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This is mostly short-term logic, and strangely...rationale from Skinner's POV on why it's ok. Who cares what Skinner thinks?

If anything, this is probably chatter to light a fire under his tail and prep him for a change in mind set at camp. I'll believe it when I see it, and still think it's an unnecessary cap hit penalty after he's gone.
 
MOGlLNY said:
I said be skeptical because they have an icy relationship. I’m not allowed to talk about it because I posted that?

What’s up your asshole today?
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I find it annoying when people post false rumors on here with nothing to back it up. It’s actually against the rules of the forum.
 
Sabresfansince1980 said:
This is mostly short-term logic, and strangely...rationale from Skinner's POV on why it's ok. Who cares what Skinner thinks?

If anything, this is probably chatter to light a fire under his tail and prep him for a change in mind set at camp. I'll believe it when I see it, and still think it's an unnecessary cap hit penalty after he's gone.
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Well, we'll see, although I'm not sure that Jeff will change anything in his mind after such news.
 
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