The Refs Thread

ahmedou

DOU
Oct 7, 2017
20,888
27,931
Let's all talk in this topic about the NHL refs.

If some HFHabs members are refs give us your knowledge.

Are they against us? No calls, crosschecks, etc.

1745497913971.png
 
Refs are just bad all around, nothing specific to the Habs.
When and why was the decision to allow refs to dictate outcomes by not calling blatant penalties?
By putting your whistle away you basically saying...do whatever the heck you want.
No other sports changes the rules from the regular season to the playoffs.
 
Not as bad as the Vegas series in 2021.

Ultimately the bad calls/non-calls haven't decided the games. All goals were even strength last night. We had two PPs to Washington's one.

In game 1 each time had a PP goal. PPs were 2-2.

The biggest issue in terms of refs is we're being pulled out of every scrum with the extra penalty. Those have been the only PPs Washington gets.

The only way I would absolutely shit on the refs was the attempt to add the 4-minute minor to Evans a minute after the play when nobody called it on the ice. I understand injuries are allowed to be reviewed but it was obvious from the beginning it was a follow through.

They haven't been calling crosschecks both ways, it just so happens that ours aren't to the face. Maybe we should be taking advantage of that too?

The biggest issue is depth scoring. Game 1 the top line dominated and the other three got wrecked. Game 2 Washington realized they don't even need to cover the other lines and spent their entire effort smothering Nick Suzuki. No one was able to Capitals-ize (get it?). It's not a Martin St. Louis issue, it's a Patrik Laine issue, an Alex Newhook issue, a Christian Dvorak issue, a Brendan Gallagher issue. Won't blame Andy he's a beast. These guys were our depth scoring this year and aren't contributing. Demidov has no one with him who can even think the game at his level, he's already simplified his game into dump and chase battle in the corner throw a feed out front garbage. Except the times he actually does get a good pass the pinching dman somehow recognizes it 5 seconds late.

Honestly, I would move Slaf and Demidov. Slaf might do better with lesser quality of competition.

Or even move Slaf and Cole together to be a tandem, let Nick and Demidov play together. Washington has too many big bodies and has two good d pairings, it's nearly impossible to get the Nick line favourable matchups right now. Especially with the let them play mantra, the Caps are taking tons of liberties against the Captain. I just know Demidov cannot do much on his own when he's playing with whiffy mcgee mcwhiffington in Newhook. Every grade A chance goes wide or off the boards and down the ice. Likewise the top line is being smothered. I'm not even suggesting a permanent split, just run a few shifts in the first or second with different lines, let the big boys play together again in the third if we're down and have already made the caps gassed.

This series is still winnable, this has legitimately been the closest series in the playoffs. Even Colorado crapped on Dallas in game one, down 2-1 now. For all intents and purposes both games have been 1 goal games. Hell, without the fluke bounce off Savard's skate and the empty net that was only there as a result, this past game was literally only 1-1 at ES. Thompson's been marginally better than Monty, but Thompson's also had larger "fish out of water" stretches that we have not capitalized on.

I would agree the refs were costing us games if it were anywhere near as blatant or game-changing as the Vegas series (which we still won). The defense is not the issue right now either, you can easily win a series giving up 2.5 goals a game, but you're not going to win any scoring 1.5. Boys need to respond with a blowout tomorrow.

Even then, the closeness of the games indicates the team is moving in the right direction. I know being toxic is easier, but for one time I will say I am proud of the boys and what they're accomplishing as the youngest playoff team in history. It's not the vets carrying the load either.

Monty is the oldest key player at 28. Age-wise he's at the age Carey Price unlocked his final form. The only 30+ guy who can't easily be replaced/replicated is Josh Anderson, who is a bottom six leader.

Sorting by age you can see a curve where the guys contributing the least are both the oldest and youngest, while the guys in that 22-26 range are doing the work.

It should excite you that Demidov, Hutson, Guhle and Slaf are not even close to their peak. Or that Nick and Cole still have 5+ years at their current level with the chance to get even better.

It should excite you that Newhook's contract isn't that long and that Laine can easily just not be re-signed if he doesn't regain any semblance of NHL-level skating to go with that top 1 shot in the league.

It should also excite you that Hage was the best rookie in the NCAA at a time when the NCAA is at it's highest level ever for churning out NHLers and that CHLers can play there now. He has a boom or bust skillset that is booming and we may have finally drafted a top 6 C for the first time since SAKU KOIIIIVU.

It should excite you that Reinbacher, when he plays, looks like the exact piece we're missing on D this year. The Weber/Ekholm to Hutson's Josi.

It should excite you that Monty is even as good as he is, and that a home-grown replacement in Fowler might already been in the system. Transitioning from one core to another is the key factor in maintaining success and we've been hitting on some non-first round picks to do that.

It should excite you that MSL is the first coach we've ever had that admits he has faults and talks about working on them and improving himself. He's applying what made him a multiple-time Art Ross winner to coaching. He's a guy worth investing in as a fan because he is just as passionate as us about winning. He's not doing it just to negotiate a better contract or save his own ass, he's already loaded from his playing days. He dropped Matheson and Anderson significantly faster than Therrien did Desharnais, or Julien did Drouin/Armia. He's literally constantly doing everything people beg for within a reasonable timeframe.

The irony is Xhekaj started in over 85% of the games this year. He had an extremely long leash before his penalties and lost coverage cost us enough games before being banished to the press box. No coach in the league, including Jon Cooper, would bench Savard in his retirement run during round 1. It's just not something that happens. Even Recchi got to play every game of Boston's 2011 run despite being awful for first three rounds. Guess what, he put up 7 points in 7 games against Vancouver and was a big reason why they won the cup. They trusted in a vet who had been to the finals before and it paid off.

It should excite you that one single poster believes Filip Mesar can be a 200 point player in the AHL. :dumbo:

Finally, it should excite you that I can't give any of you likes, wows, sads, or angrys til June. :dumbo:

There are far more positives about the club this year than negatives. There's no reason to get bent out of shape because we're losing to the #1 seed. Refs aren't costing us the series, the players just need to dig deep if they want to fell a giant.

Also it's easy to criticize in hindsight, but if you're Kent Hughes, 10 points out of the playoffs leading up to the deadline, do you pay deadline prices to add a top 4 RD and top 6 winger? He gave the boys a big boost of confidence to say if you win I won't sell. This was not ever going to be a buying year. There was no inclination Demidov would be able to come over in April. Even with hindsight though, is anyone willing to pay the price Toronto did for Carlo? The only deal I would have even suggested was Kuzmenko, but there's seemingly something between Briere/the Habs after the Michkov thing that makes that unlikely to begin with. The deal to make was taking PLD last summer, but most of you hated the idea even though I kept floating it.

Habs are fine, still in it. Even if they lose they can come back stronger next year. Worst case we moved back one spot in the draft for a learning experience. Would you rather have missed and picked 15/16 instead of 16/17? (Ignore this if Columbus pick the next Sakic, Bossy, Karlsson, or MacInnis who all were drafted 15th). Why you heff to be mad? Is only game.

Go habs go. Wait that's banned. Aller Habs Aller? Allez? Alle? What's the proper conjugation?
 
  • Like
Reactions: ahmedou
Not as bad as the Vegas series in 2021.

Ultimately the bad calls/non-calls haven't decided the games. All goals were even strength last night. We had two PPs to Washington's one.

In game 1 each time had a PP goal. PPs were 2-2.

The biggest issue in terms of refs is we're being pulled out of every scrum with the extra penalty. Those have been the only PPs Washington gets.

The only way I would absolutely shit on the refs was the attempt to add the 4-minute minor to Evans a minute after the play when nobody called it on the ice. I understand injuries are allowed to be reviewed but it was obvious from the beginning it was a follow through.

They haven't been calling crosschecks both ways, it just so happens that ours aren't to the face. Maybe we should be taking advantage of that too?

The biggest issue is depth scoring. Game 1 the top line dominated and the other three got wrecked. Game 2 Washington realized they don't even need to cover the other lines and spent their entire effort smothering Nick Suzuki. No one was able to Capitals-ize (get it?). It's not a Martin St. Louis issue, it's a Patrik Laine issue, an Alex Newhook issue, a Christian Dvorak issue, a Brendan Gallagher issue. Won't blame Andy he's a beast. These guys were our depth scoring this year and aren't contributing. Demidov has no one with him who can even think the game at his level, he's already simplified his game into dump and chase battle in the corner throw a feed out front garbage. Except the times he actually does get a good pass the pinching dman somehow recognizes it 5 seconds late.

Honestly, I would move Slaf and Demidov. Slaf might do better with lesser quality of competition.

Or even move Slaf and Cole together to be a tandem, let Nick and Demidov play together. Washington has too many big bodies and has two good d pairings, it's nearly impossible to get the Nick line favourable matchups right now. Especially with the let them play mantra, the Caps are taking tons of liberties against the Captain. I just know Demidov cannot do much on his own when he's playing with whiffy mcgee mcwhiffington in Newhook. Every grade A chance goes wide or off the boards and down the ice. Likewise the top line is being smothered. I'm not even suggesting a permanent split, just run a few shifts in the first or second with different lines, let the big boys play together again in the third if we're down and have already made the caps gassed.

This series is still winnable, this has legitimately been the closest series in the playoffs. Even Colorado crapped on Dallas in game one, down 2-1 now. For all intents and purposes both games have been 1 goal games. Hell, without the fluke bounce off Savard's skate and the empty net that was only there as a result, this past game was literally only 1-1 at ES. Thompson's been marginally better than Monty, but Thompson's also had larger "fish out of water" stretches that we have not capitalized on.

I would agree the refs were costing us games if it were anywhere near as blatant or game-changing as the Vegas series (which we still won). The defense is not the issue right now either, you can easily win a series giving up 2.5 goals a game, but you're not going to win any scoring 1.5. Boys need to respond with a blowout tomorrow.

Even then, the closeness of the games indicates the team is moving in the right direction. I know being toxic is easier, but for one time I will say I am proud of the boys and what they're accomplishing as the youngest playoff team in history. It's not the vets carrying the load either.

Monty is the oldest key player at 28. Age-wise he's at the age Carey Price unlocked his final form. The only 30+ guy who can't easily be replaced/replicated is Josh Anderson, who is a bottom six leader.

Sorting by age you can see a curve where the guys contributing the least are both the oldest and youngest, while the guys in that 22-26 range are doing the work.

It should excite you that Demidov, Hutson, Guhle and Slaf are not even close to their peak. Or that Nick and Cole still have 5+ years at their current level with the chance to get even better.

It should excite you that Newhook's contract isn't that long and that Laine can easily just not be re-signed if he doesn't regain any semblance of NHL-level skating to go with that top 1 shot in the league.

It should also excite you that Hage was the best rookie in the NCAA at a time when the NCAA is at it's highest level ever for churning out NHLers and that CHLers can play there now. He has a boom or bust skillset that is booming and we may have finally drafted a top 6 C for the first time since SAKU KOIIIIVU.

It should excite you that Reinbacher, when he plays, looks like the exact piece we're missing on D this year. The Weber/Ekholm to Hutson's Josi.

It should excite you that Monty is even as good as he is, and that a home-grown replacement in Fowler might already been in the system. Transitioning from one core to another is the key factor in maintaining success and we've been hitting on some non-first round picks to do that.

It should excite you that MSL is the first coach we've ever had that admits he has faults and talks about working on them and improving himself. He's applying what made him a multiple-time Art Ross winner to coaching. He's a guy worth investing in as a fan because he is just as passionate as us about winning. He's not doing it just to negotiate a better contract or save his own ass, he's already loaded from his playing days. He dropped Matheson and Anderson significantly faster than Therrien did Desharnais, or Julien did Drouin/Armia. He's literally constantly doing everything people beg for within a reasonable timeframe.

The irony is Xhekaj started in over 85% of the games this year. He had an extremely long leash before his penalties and lost coverage cost us enough games before being banished to the press box. No coach in the league, including Jon Cooper, would bench Savard in his retirement run during round 1. It's just not something that happens. Even Recchi got to play every game of Boston's 2011 run despite being awful for first three rounds. Guess what, he put up 7 points in 7 games against Vancouver and was a big reason why they won the cup. They trusted in a vet who had been to the finals before and it paid off.

It should excite you that one single poster believes Filip Mesar can be a 200 point player in the AHL. :dumbo:

Finally, it should excite you that I can't give any of you likes, wows, sads, or angrys til June. :dumbo:

There are far more positives about the club this year than negatives. There's no reason to get bent out of shape because we're losing to the #1 seed. Refs aren't costing us the series, the players just need to dig deep if they want to fell a giant.

Also it's easy to criticize in hindsight, but if you're Kent Hughes, 10 points out of the playoffs leading up to the deadline, do you pay deadline prices to add a top 4 RD and top 6 winger? He gave the boys a big boost of confidence to say if you win I won't sell. This was not ever going to be a buying year. There was no inclination Demidov would be able to come over in April. Even with hindsight though, is anyone willing to pay the price Toronto did for Carlo? The only deal I would have even suggested was Kuzmenko, but there's seemingly something between Briere/the Habs after the Michkov thing that makes that unlikely to begin with. The deal to make was taking PLD last summer, but most of you hated the idea even though I kept floating it.

Habs are fine, still in it. Even if they lose they can come back stronger next year. Worst case we moved back one spot in the draft for a learning experience. Would you rather have missed and picked 15/16 instead of 16/17? (Ignore this if Columbus pick the next Sakic, Bossy, Karlsson, or MacInnis who all were drafted 15th). Why you heff to be mad? Is only game.

Go habs go. Wait that's banned. Aller Habs Aller? Allez? Alle? What's the proper conjugation?
Dude... can you please spare me? I have 55 books on my TBR list already, do you really have to add to it?? :cool::cool:
 
  • Haha
Reactions: ahmedou
The refs aren't biased against teams but they just suck because of their mindset. And make no mistake it's something that is actively encouraged not just by the NHL but across hockey in general. Refs are supposed to "manage" the game, which right off the bat shows how stupid the whole thing is. Can you imagine in baseball the umpire calling balls and strikes based off trying to manage the game and evening things up rather then whether the pitch was actually a ball or a strike?

In the end the Habs have to deal with the way the game is called and not how it should be called.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ahmedou
Dude... can you please spare me? I have 55 books on my TBR list already, do you really have to add to it?? :cool::cool:
Nah, I need to warm up my brain with 90% research-based facts-10% shitpost before I start cramming essay assignments for 10 hours. So the 10% shitpost doesn't end up in my essays. The brain train doesn't start from a stand still unfortunately.

You know what I'm saying, ese.
 
  • Love
Reactions: ahmedou
Watching the first 2 games, I don't even care if the missed calls contributed to the losses. It's been so bad I'm legit concerned for the guys safety out there. Like how the hell do you miss 3 crosschecks to the face in 2 games, it blows my mind.
 
It's the playoffs. The refs don't call shit. They aren't being biased against the Habs, they just don't call things that they should for either team. It's frustrating but it's always been the case. I guess this is what the league wants.
 
  • Angry
Reactions: ahmedou
download.jpg


'' Oué bin écoute Félix, pour moi ça c'est un bon crosscheck. Caufield perd pied en même temps qui reçois le baton au visage et la rondelle était environ 5pieds derrière lui donc assez proche. Pour moi si tu accepte un crosscheck au visage, ça s'en est un que tu laisse passer. L'arbitre fait un bon travail. ''
 
We all know how they rig the game but it’s not the refs that are killing the wings of the team: it’s bad ego coaching.

Martin St-Louis needs to go as there’s a ton of better coaches than him but been 20 years + we waited to have a team like this…
 
  • Like
Reactions: ahmedou
The only thing I will say about the reffing.............Zero consistency. Zero.

Also, not an easy job guys.
Look at the Caps, and their biggest guys, going down like paperweights, brutal. Hard tough calls when throughout the league we see diving left and right, just to get a call.
In this series they have resisted most of Washington's diving....
 
  • Like
Reactions: ahmedou
It's the lack of consistency thay drives the players crazy.

I'm sure the refs have been sent the video of Gallagher being crosschecked in the mouth. Somehow, they followed that up with a similar infraction on caufield in game 2. You can bet they have been shown the video of that one too.

Now there will really be a hyper focus on that type of foul. So you can't just say that the Habs should do the same thing. The refs will eventually call it, but you just never know when, and you can't risk that.

The Habs are on the short end of the officiating so far, but they have to keep their eye on the ball, regardless. You can't change crap officiating and if they allow that to distract them, then you might as well end the series now because nothing good will come out of it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ahmedou

Users who are viewing this thread

Ad

Ad