The recurrent eternal question of the ice sheet

[LiveeviL]

I would argue as above that this presents a false choice, but even so the example is hardly applicable because there aren't varying styles of javelin, just throwing it farther or shorter. Perhaps you could say adding the 3pt line, but even when that came out it wasn't really to accommodate existing styles and didn't affect the athlete scheme until a brief period about two decades later, which goes back to the false choice presented.

As far as injury concerns, new unanticipated injuries aren't uncommon. We could see less of the Malgin-Zacha injury only to see more injuries of the Harald Ofner nature. Players are bigger, faster, stronger as you said, changing the size of the surface won't necessarily make them safer.

You are probably totally right, let us just assume that. But for the sake of argument, or rather that I had some minutes to spend. Let me continue to discuss the topic a bit further.

I do not think we talk about different styles of ice sheets here, as little as I talk about different styles of Javelins. Javelins these days got modified so that they can't be thrown as far as an optimised javelin could be thrown. The same goes with the ice. It might be modified in order to decrease the likelihood of injuries. That can be done without even discussing types of ice-sheets.

It is a bit to extreme to talk about necessary conditions. At least as a theory. A condition A is said to be necessary for a condition B, if (and only if) the falsity (/nonexistence /non-occurrence) of A guarantees (or brings about) the falsity (/nonexistence /non-occurrence) of B. That can't be ensured as long as we deals with human interaction. So lets leave necessary conditions out of the discussion.

If we look at sufficient conditions then:
A condition A is said to be sufficient for a condition B, if (and only if) the truth (/existence /occurrence) of A guarantees (or brings about) the truth (/existence /occurrence) of B.

We can't say that a larger ice sheet can guarantee anything, that's for sure as long as we deal with human interaction.

But with an, say for the argument, infinite ice sheet we would reduce injuries as no one would find another player. We thus got a relative condition instead for an absolute yes or no. So it should be possible to assume that an increase of the ice sheet, how marginal it might be, should decrease the likelihood of players interfering with reach other.


Well, that's all from me on this subject, as I agree to assume that I am wrong (but not necessary or sufficiently though).

Game's up and work week tomorrow.

 

[kabidjan18]

Don't get me wrong. I'm as theoretical a guy as most you'll find, I love debating the most basic and fundamental things or taking on interesting stances to see how far different ideas can be stretched.

But the nature of the ice sheets discussion is pretty practical in nature. Even if say we have a decrease in X injuries due to known injury variables and an increase in X-1 injuries due to currently more obsolete injury methods so that we squeak out an injury surplus it wouldn't necessarily make solving the scenario practical. Worse, if this situation could be modeled by an exponential function where rink size goes to infinity what's to say we aren't on the part of the function where the slope is barely above zero?

One thing that would be cool to see is Team NA vs. Team Russia on big ice maybe in some exhibition or if the WCH were to be transported overseas for an edition. I don't like the gimmick teams but it might give us a better idea what we'd be looking at with world class players on big ice.

 

[Sabreskin]

- Start by widening the new NHL rinks by 5 ft...so from 200 x 85 ft, you will have 200 x 90 ft.

Also, in my opinion, increase the distance of the net to the back boards by 1 ft, and increase the distance of the red line to the blue line by 1.5 ft.
To achieve this, we increase the length of the ice from 200 ft to 205 ft.

Ideal rink size: 205 x 90 or a little wider if necessary.

- Leave the current rinks at 200 x 85 ft. (Grandfather Clause).

- If after 5 years of play; 90 ft width is not enough, increase width by 2.5 more ft....and we'll have 205 x 92.5 ft.

- Repeat Last step if necessary after 5 years, etc.....

As far as money is concerned for the owners, the increase in rink size automatically increases the number of seats per row since the perimeter of the new rink is larger.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I think NHL rinks are still too small.

 

[hansomreiste]

I can only hope that everything remains as it is - Europeans with big ice, Americans with the small one. This way, everyone can enjoy whatever s/he likes without having to be disappointed and feeling powerless against the changes s/he doesn't want.

I'm a huge fan of Stanley Cup playoffs yet my top leagues to "fall in love" are SHL and KHL - I get to watch the latter a lot since it is easier for me to view. I love that freedom feeling of big ice. As a guy who grew up loving football, I like seeing attacks develop slowly in ice hockey as well. It is not artificially fast yet quick enough to keep you entertained. Clean passes, set plays, entry zones etc. all look better to me in bigger ice. On the other hand, I also enjoy watching NHL, because obviously, it is a great product as well. Though if I had to pick one, I'd go with bigger ice rinks and European leagues. NHL sometimes feels like watching bumper cars and if skill is not involved, can be pretty boring. On bigger surface, you kinda have to be skilled to survive and make an impact.

It would be funny if SHL teams played in NHL-sized rinks, though. Then, with so many ads on uniforms, it would look like NASCAR on ice.

 

[Yakushev72]

I've heard two versions of why the NHL clings to the small ice syndrome

(1) If the ice was enlarged to international size, it would eliminate 2 or 3 rows of premium-priced seats; and

(2) Because most Americans did not grow up playing hockey themselves, they are more likely to appreciate two meatknobs colliding than they would great displays of stickhandling, passing and shooting.

The bigger the game, as in Stanley Cup Playoffs, the more likely the game will just be a frantic mess with the puck pinballing around with no organized or concerted plan. Just unload it as quickly as possible as soon as the puck touches wood. No passing game, no organized attack. Just dump it in as soon as possible and forecheck. That seems pretty boring.

 

[JackSlater]

I've heard two versions of why the NHL clings to the small ice syndrome

(1) If the ice was enlarged to international size, it would eliminate 2 or 3 rows of premium-priced seats; and

(2) Because most Americans did not grow up playing hockey themselves, they are more likely to appreciate two meatknobs colliding than they would great displays of stickhandling, passing and shooting.

The bigger the game, as in Stanley Cup Playoffs, the more likely the game will just be a frantic mess with the puck pinballing around with no organized or concerted plan. Just unload it as quickly as possible as soon as the puck touches wood. No passing game, no organized attack. Just dump it in as soon as possible and forecheck. That seems pretty boring.

Now now Yakushev72, while I perhaps believe that you did hear #2 before, I find it hard to believe that it's a legitimate reason worth considering. #1 is a perfectly valid reason for why the NHL hasn't changed the ice surface, in addition to the lack of demand for such a change and that the European ice just increased peripheral play.

 

[jj cale]

I've heard two versions of why the NHL clings to the small ice syndrome

(1) If the ice was enlarged to international size, it would eliminate 2 or 3 rows of premium-priced seats; and

(2) Because most Americans did not grow up playing hockey themselves, they are more likely to appreciate two meatknobs colliding than they would great displays of stickhandling, passing and shooting.

The bigger the game, as in Stanley Cup Playoffs, the more likely the game will just be a frantic mess with the puck pinballing around with no organized or concerted plan. Just unload it as quickly as possible as soon as the puck touches wood. No passing game, no organized attack. Just dump it in as soon as possible and forecheck. That seems pretty boring.

You're not insinuating that Americans just enjoy roller derby hockey are you?

You would be best off looking at their players that skill wise are besting much of what Russia can produce these days.

Arrogance is what got you guys in the mess you find yourself these days, you might want to adjust your attitude.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Now now Yakushev72, while I perhaps believe that you did hear #2 before, I find it hard to believe that it's a legitimate reason worth considering. #1 is a perfectly valid reason for why the NHL hasn't changed the ice surface, in addition to the lack of demand for such a change and that the European ice just increased peripheral play.

http://allhockey.ru/news/show/28995...anadskogo_razmera_pojdet_nam_tol_ko_na_pol_zu

here's an article from a few months ago, April 24, where the KHL president states they are studying the question of moving/reducing the size of KHL ice. and the kicker. are you ready?

Уверен, что переход на площадки канадского размера пойдет только на пользу российскому хоккею как в спортивном, так и в зрительском плане", - сказал Чернышенко.

"I am confident that a move to Canadian ice would only benefit Russian hockey, both in terms of the sport and from a fan's perspective", Chernyshenko said.

 

[JackSlater]

http://allhockey.ru/news/show/28995...anadskogo_razmera_pojdet_nam_tol_ko_na_pol_zu

here's an article from a few months ago, April 24, where the KHL president states they are studying the question of moving/reducing the size of KHL ice. and the kicker. are you ready?

Уверен, что переход на площадки канадского размера пойдет только на пользу российскому хоккею как в спортивном, так и в зрительском плане", - сказал Чернышенко.

"I am confident that a move to Canadian ice would only benefit Russian hockey, both in terms of the sport and from a fan's perspective", Chernyshenko said.

Very interesting. Perhas too many Russians have no grown up not playing hockey and cannot appreciate the ballet on ice that is hockey on the European surface but instead crave the raw depravity of hockey on ice that is slightly more narrow.

 

[jj cale]

http://allhockey.ru/news/show/28995...anadskogo_razmera_pojdet_nam_tol_ko_na_pol_zu

here's an article from a few months ago, April 24, where the KHL president states they are studying the question of moving/reducing the size of KHL ice. and the kicker. are you ready?

Уверен, что переход на площадки канадского размера пойдет только на пользу российскому хоккею как в спортивном, так и в зрительском плане", - сказал Чернышенко.

"I am confident that a move to Canadian ice would only benefit Russian hockey, both in terms of the sport and from a fan's perspective", Chernyshenko said.

Wow.......a compliment.


I thought they forgot how to do that, its been so long.

 

[tony d]

I like the big ice, nice to see the game played on a bigger surface.

 

[Zine]

One would think the NHLPA would be vigorously opposed to the international surface considering the complexion of NHL would be radically changed if Bettman implemented the big ice.
A lot of 3rd/4th line grinders would be out of a job in favour of more technically skilled Euros or AHLers.

 

[Yakushev72]

http://allhockey.ru/news/show/28995...anadskogo_razmera_pojdet_nam_tol_ko_na_pol_zu

here's an article from a few months ago, April 24, where the KHL president states they are studying the question of moving/reducing the size of KHL ice. and the kicker. are you ready?

Уверен, что переход на площадки канадского размера пойдет только на пользу российскому хоккею как в спортивном, так и в зрительском плане", - сказал Чернышенко.

"I am confident that a move to Canadian ice would only benefit Russian hockey, both in terms of the sport and from a fan's perspective", Chernyshenko said.

This is from one of the most ineffectual and incompetent oligarchs in the history of Russian hockey. It might address Item 1 of my post above, jamming in a few rows of premium seats, but this is against the backdrop of a KHL which will again shed teams in the offseason, so its not as if he doesn't have other issues to focus on.

The distinctive style that is labeled as "Russian hockey" is predicated on a large ice surface that permits the kind of wide-angle attack prevalent in football. I don't think Russian fans would be attracted to the dump-and-chase hockey that the NHL features, where you just toss the puck in after crossing the red line and forecheck intensively.

And please don't give me that "it requires greater skill when you play on a small rink" crap that I've heard before. It shows nothing like that. You just flip the puck in as fast as possible and go crashing after it. Boring!!

 

[1Gold Standard]

Very interesting. Perhas too many Russians have no grown up not playing hockey and cannot appreciate the ballet on ice that is hockey on the European surface but instead crave the raw depravity of hockey on ice that is slightly more narrow.

that would appear to be the logical conclusion.

just the fact that they ponder the question is interesting enough. I hope they never make the switch to Canadian ice. And I hope we never switch to an international ice surface.

 

[Yakushev72]

that would appear to be the logical conclusion.

just the fact that they ponder the question is interesting enough. I hope they never make the switch to Canadian ice. And I hope we never switch to an international ice surface.

I'll drink to that!