The Rebuild Started...

[Canucks1096]

To the first point: When you keep siphoning picks for 20 year old retreads its not serving the rebuild because the primary assets in a rebuild are still picks. In these types of trades, you are trading the primary asset to get a secondary asset and then hoping it pays off like a primary asset. Not smart. It's fine to try here and there, but as a methodology, it's foolish. The point about picks being the primary assets in a rebuild is black and white. It's as clear cut as it gets. Why do you think the media is all over Benning for not saying the word "rebuild", or for not acquiring picks? Everyone knows he's not following the rebuild playbook. They know he's off course and they love chastising him for it (in print anyway).

On Goldobin: How will you know the difference between Goldobin taking a step back and simply being squeezed off the roster for having a poor camp? You won't know. He needs regular season games to prove this either way.

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It would take too long to break down why a 3rd liner is better than a 4th liner here, so I will leave that comment at this: It's about shot differentials. A 3rd liner should be able to push play up ice better than a 4th liner given similar deployment. However, we cannot say the opposite. A 4th liner will likely not be able to push possession as well as a 3rd liner. Why? Because the 3rd liner is the better player. So how can we expect the 4th liner to "shelter" the 3rd liner? We can't. If you truly want to shelter a 3rd liner, get another 3rd liner that can be deployed in a similar fashion and still push play as well. Do you understand?

A bunch of generalizations. I think we will just continue to go around circles here.

 

[Bleach Clean]

A bunch of generalizations. I think we will just continue to go around circles here.

I have already broken down the logic of why picks are valued. I have also referenced possession metrics when describing the effect of 4th liners. Things have been elaborated on for you. If you choose to ignore these things, it's on you and no one else.

 

[Canucks1096]

I have already broken down the logic of why picks are valued. I have also referenced possession metrics when describing the effect of 4th liners. Things have been elaborated on for you. If you choose to ignore these things, it's on you and no one else.

Ok

 

[PuckMunchkin]

A bunch of generalizations. I think we will just continue to go around circles here.

That is just a lazy deflection.

Teams don't "generally" rebuild the way Benning is attempting to because it doesn't "generally" lead to a successful rebuild.

The rebuild will start when his methodology changes or, more likely, when he gets canned and we have a competent GM.

Ok

Ah I see. You've already given up trying to defend your position. Carry on then.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Ok

If you understand the logic behind why picks are valued, then you cannot see them as being interchangeable with trades and signings. You seem to understand the first part, but somehow, not the second part. That's not on the people explaining it to you.

 

[Canucks1096]

If you understand the logic behind why picks are valued, then you cannot see them as being interchangeable with trades and signings. You seem to understand the first part, but somehow, not the second part. That's not on the people explaining it to you.

Ok

 

[rypper]

Bonino and Sbisa both were 6+ years into their NHL careers when we traded for them. Rebuilding moves would be targeting prospects or players only 1-2 years from their draft. Not 6 or more.

 

[Canucks1096]

That is just a lazy deflection.

Teams don't "generally" rebuild the way Benning is attempting to because it doesn't "generally" lead to a successful rebuild.

The rebuild will start when his methodology changes or, more likely, when he gets canned and we have a competent GM.



Ah I see. You've already given up trying to defend your position. Carry on then.

I have given up but I still think I am right.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Canucks1096 is fighting the good fight, but it really doesn't change anything in terms of how this regime is perceived. They've set their mark. This is how they are going to go about this. For good or ill. Benning doesn't care. He went out and signed three 4th liners to term knowing that he was going to get fried for it.

The media is all over them. The fan base is turning on them. Let's see how it turns out?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Canucks1096 is fighting the good fight, but it really doesn't change anything in terms of how this regime is perceived. They've set their mark. This is how they are going to go about this. For good or ill. Benning doesn't care. He went out and signed three 4th liners to term knowing that he was going to get fried for it.

The media is all over them. The fan base is turning on them. Let's see how it turns out?

For signing a couple of 4th liners for $600k a season over the league average salary..?..These players are not going to be the focus of attention when the season starts..The kids coming in will be.

You know as well as I do ,during the season the mood of the fanbase and media swings from one one extreme to another..One week they'll be worldbeaters after a few wins,and the following week horseshit after consecutive losses.

Don't get your hopes too high.

 

[Bleach Clean]

For signing a couple of 4th liners for $600k a season over the league average salary..?..These players are not going to be the focus of attention when the season starts..The kids coming in will be.

You know as well as I do ,during the season the mood of the fanbase and media swings from one one extreme to another..One week they'll be worldbeaters after a few wins,and the following week horse**** after consecutive losses.

Don't get your hopes too high.

Hopes? I’m reveling in this. Benning is inept. This comes through on his signings, his trades, his interviews, damned near everything. He can’t help himself. His debacle of an offseason is being panned league wide. You bet they will be the focus every time this team can’t score. Count on it.

Enjoy it while it lasts PoM. Your boy is not long for the chopping block.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Hopes? I’m reveling in this. Benning is inept. This comes through on his signings, his trades, his interviews, near everything. He can’t help himself. His debacle of an offseason is being planned league wide. You bet they will be the focus every time this team can’t score. Count on it.

Enjoy it while it lasts PoM. Your boy is not long for the chopping block.

Isn't that what you said earlier in the year ....look how that turned out?

 

[nuck luck]

You're being more condescending than making actual points..?

Im only replying in kind. I actually apologized earlier for being slightly aggressive in my first reply to him.

There was sarcasm and mockery in his recent post, so fair game...

If you dont focus on my condescending tone, which you eloquently highlighted, my points should be very clear as they explain where the miscommunication took place. I also went into further detail about my point of 'possibly' taking players in year 1 or 2 of their nhl career...

So yes, condescending tone was justified, but my 'actual points' were crystal.

 

[Wo Yorfat]

Summary of the last few pages for those who use ignore lists : trading draft picks for terrible players = rebuilding if said players are under 40. Not running a surplus of draft picks while being a bottom 5 team for 3 yrs = fine. Being horrible at building a team, making horrendous FA acquisitions, losing most trades = not important. Benning = good because Gillis was mean to our radio heros and we lost game 7.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I have given up but I still think I am right.

Feel a bit bad for you now. Sry for being aggressive earlier.

 

[Hit the post]

Isn't that what you said earlier in the year ....look how that turned out?

Linden just moved the target on him. I would've chose a different hill to make my last stand on.

Team will be better off in the long run (Linden is better suited for a different position on the team) as then the real rebuild will begin.

 

[MS]

Isn't that what you said earlier in the year ....look how that turned out?

Everything turned out pretty much exactly as most of us said it would aside from our idiot owner inexplicably giving our idiot GM an idiotic contract extension.

 

[y2kcanucks]

But on your first post you wrote every year they bring many Vets and leave no room for young player. So where is the evidences for 2014 2015 and 2017. 2018 season didn't come yet. Why dont we wait and see. I Can give you Stecher but only 1o% of the season. Since Nov of that season towards he was playing top 6 regardless of Injuries.

Hutton 2nd in mins among D for the first 2 to 3 months of the season. He was playing solid than after Dec something happened. So first 3 months MDZ didn't hurt Hutton development but the last 3 months he did?

What is Benning suppose to say? Is he suppose tell everyone I expect to lose every game this year?

Gagner was for 3yrs because Canucks didn't think Pettersson will be ready until 3 years later. That is still considered a stop gap contract. MDZ was a stop gap for Juolevi and Burmistrov was for 1yr because of Gaudette. This was mention by tsn radio.

The evidence is based on who they brought in. What about this aren't you getting?

Hutton was pushed down the roster, and now there really isn't a spot for him, or Juolevi, or Hughes if he turns pro. Edler and MDZ are occupying the top two LHD spots on the roster. Then you have Hutton and Pouliot splitting time on the bottom pairing. Granted, Juolevi or Hughes should be able to easily beat out Pouliot, given what Benning paid to get Pouliot (when he was headed for waivers) I'm not sure they'll just waive him.

Mike Babcock came out and said there would be some tough years in Toronto. He was honest and their moves reflected that of a rebuilding team. Unlike the Canucks where Benning talks about the playoffs and being competitive every year, and his moves are consistent with that of a team that's trying to make the playoffs. They do not stockpile draft picks or prospects, which is what typical rebuilding teams do. How is this hard for you to see?

If the Canucks thought a 5th overall pick was going to take 3+ years to make the team then they obviously didn't have much hope for their 5th overall pick and probably should have picked someone else. Do you have any source that suggests this? Seems more likely that you just made this excuse up to explain that Gagner contract.

 

[y2kcanucks]

MDZ's signing has hurt Huttons development...?...was MDZ responsible for Hutton being out of shape?..More 'doom and gloom' prophecies..?

Hutton was in perfectly fine shape to start the season. All of a sudden after playing a couple months he fell out of shape? Uhhh...more likely that MDZ was just getting more opportunity than Hutton. Edler missed about a month at the beginning of the season, and when he came back Hutton got pushed down.

Also didn't help that they saddled Hutton with that useless defenseman Gudbranson. Hutton played well when away from Gudbranson, but when paired together his game all of a sudden sunk. Coincidence?

 

[y2kcanucks]

I have given up but I still think I am right.

Yup, because like I said you refuse to accept reality.

 

[Canucks1096]

Yup, because like I said you refuse to accept reality.

But reality is every rebuild was not the same.

Like I said in your first post, you did generalize quite a bit

 

[y2kcanucks]

But reality is every rebuild was not the same.

Like I said in your first post, you did generalize quite a bit

If I didn't generalize a little my post would have been like a book. But like I've said, and others have pointed out, you simply refuse to accept reality. We can't help that.

 

[Melvin]

Everything turned out pretty much exactly as most of us said it would aside from our idiot owner inexplicably giving our idiot GM an idiotic contract extension.

I had no doubt he would get an extension.

 

[Canucks1096]

If I didn't generalize a little my post would have been like a book. But like I've said, and others have pointed out, you simply refuse to accept reality. We can't help that.

Like who?

There 34% think the rebuild has started. Not a high number but it does prove that it's not as black and white as you think. If it was that black and white percentage would be a lot lower.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Like who?

There 34% think the rebuild has started. Not a high number but it does prove that it's not as black and white as you think. If it was that black and white percentage would be a lot lower.

Explain how you got to 34%