GDT: The Push for the playoffs continues, Long Island Fishermans @ Pens. 7pm

[Gurglesons]

Exactly, so how can you dunk on him for not trading Rakell for "value" at the TDL? You don't know what the offers were. If the best we got was a 2nd and b-prospect, Dubas was very correct in not trading him. But you said that he only has a B- TDL because didn't get value for him. Which I am calling out as BS.

I don't agree. I think getting out of the Rakell contract at any value would've been great for creating cap space, getting us value on a contract that can easily turn upside down, and contributing to us being bad this year when we have a clear path to getting a top 5 draft pick.

 

[Gurglesons]

Doesn't contributing significantly more goals to your team prove that you were more impactful?

As I said, I'm not someone that puts goals over assists, but I do think there is value in being a top 5 scoring winger versus a 7-10 center.

Also, who had the better regular season records during both teams cup wins?
08-09
15-16
16-17
17-18

I'm not sure what this has to do with the argument about Crosby vs Ovechkin since 18-19.

 

[Duffy13]

oh shoot, forgot to mention Acciari having a huge milestone vs NJ, with his assist and in only 44 more games, he finally passed Jesse Puljujarvi in points this year. Well done you black hole of talent.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Yohe I get though. Being a beat reporter, you need access to insider the org which means players, coaches, and front office. I imagine it would make for a much more difficult relationship if you were blasting Sullivan and Dubas on twitter regularly.

You can be critical but fair, and you can certainly not be completely embarrassing the way Yohe is. Molinari was quite adept at it.

 

[SEALBound]

oh shoot, forgot to mention Acciari having a huge milestone vs NJ, with his assist and in only 44 more games, he finally passed Jesse Puljujarvi in points this year. Well done you black hole of talent.

God I had to look it up for myself to make sure you were correct

Hilarious.

 

[SEALBound]

Timmins is +7 in 5 games with us. Sid is -23.

 

[Pancakes]

It really isn’t.

It’s a moderate take not influenced by being Canadian.

Ovechkin has missed the playoffs once since his cup.

Sid will be three years in a row now.

Ovi has won multiple Rockets.

Sid has a 5th place point finish in points

It doesn’t take away from Sid’s overall ranking. But Crosby has largely played on a better team up until this year. Caps have been the better team and Ovi has been the more impactful player.

You do this weird thing where you claim the Capitals are better managed than the Pens but then also try to give Ovechkin credit for more playoff appearances.

Seems to me like one has something to do with the other, no?

Do you think Ovechkin has a single playoff appearance in the past three years if he and Sids positions are swapped?

 

[PamBallam]

As I said, I'm not someone that puts goals over assists, but I do think there is value in being a top 5 scoring winger versus a 7-10 center.



I'm not sure what this has to do with the argument about Crosby vs Ovechkin since 18-19.

Since 2018-19 Sid is the 5th highest scoring center, behind only McDavid, Drai, Mackinnon, and Auston Matthews. And just to be pedantic, Ovi is the 6th highest scoring LW. He's 11th if you include RW.

 

[sovietsanta87]

LMAO not a soul on the planet, in a sane world, believed Sid is top 7-10 center of all time.

It’s Wayne
66
Maybe Howe
Crosby

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

Also he is going to make the playoffs this year and last where as Sid's team has not. We always use Sid's cups as an argument of Sid's legacy over Ovechkin, we can't then reverse it when Sid is not leading his team to the playoffs.

Why not? Did you watch Ovi last year against the Rangers? In over 78 minutes of playoff hockey he had no goals, no assists and was -2. He looked lethargic, slow and uninterested in G1 and it only went downhill from there. The last time Pens played the Rags in the playoffs, there's little if any doubt we would have won that series had Trouba not cheapshotted Crosby out of action. But, as we know, that's the Ranger way, ironically the Caps have subscribed to that style, too.

 

[Ryder71]

LMAO not a soul on the planet, in a sane world, believed Sid is top 7-10 center of all time.

It’s Wayne
66
Maybe Howe
Crosby

Mario
Gretzky
Orr

Decent drop off after that. But Howe would not be in the top five. He had great longevity. Talent wise McDavid, Bossy, Crosby and Jagr would be in the next tier.

 

[sovietsanta87]

Why not? Did you watch Ovi last year against the Rangers? In over 78 minutes of playoff hockey he had no goals, no assists and was -2. He looked lethargic, slow and uninterested in G1 and it only went downhill from there. The last time Pens played the Rags in the playoffs, there's little if any doubt we would have won that series had Trouba not cheapshotted Crosby out of action. But, as we know, that's the Ranger way, ironically the Caps have subscribed to that style, too.

It’s going to happen again this year too. He’s only here to break the record. If he thought he was going to break it this year he would have never signed on for next year. His number 1 priority has always been scoring as many goals as possible and he didn’t buy in to being more of a complete player until 2018 when they went on a run.

Multiple times in 2016-17 his controller disconnected in his own zone. It’s how the penguins scored their first goal in G7 in 2017.

 

[sovietsanta87]

Mario
Gretzky
Orr

Decent drop off after that. But Howe would not be in the top five. He had great longevity. Talent wise McDavid, Bossy, Crosby and Jagr would be in the next tier.

I’m talking about centers although you would have picked up on that had I not included Howe LMAO

 

[Ryder71]

I’m talking about centers although you would have picked up on that had I not included Howe LMAO

Mario
Gretzky
McDavid
Crosby

Honorable mention to Sakic, Yzerman, Messier, Francis and Forsberg. I'm sure I missed somebody but I'm old so...

Intrigued by Geno, Mckinnon and Drai.

 

[Gurglesons]

Why not? Did you watch Ovi last year against the Rangers? In over 78 minutes of playoff hockey he had no goals, no assists and was -2. He looked lethargic, slow and uninterested in G1 and it only went downhill from there. The last time Pens played the Rags in the playoffs, there's little if any doubt we would have won that series had Trouba not cheapshotted Crosby out of action. But, as we know, that's the Ranger way, ironically the Caps have subscribed to that style, too.

Okay let’s talk about Sid in the 18/19 and 19/20 playoffs then.

I don’t get why everyone is being so sensitive about this take. It takes nothing away from Crosby’s legacy.

Crosby has 16 points in 20 games since 18/19. Ovi has 24 in 30.

Similar playoff rates.

 

[Rakell67]

Montreal fans defending Sid to the grave.

Shocking.

If you don’t get the hype around Ovi breaking the all time goal scoring record.. not sure what to say.

Yeah, it's similar to Barry Bonds HR record imo.

 

[Sideline]

Yeah, it's similar to Barry Bonds HR record imo.

As in they were both on elite nutrition plans, but I still think they're incredible and enjoy the heck out of watching them?

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

Okay let’s talk about Sid in the 18/19 and 19/20 playoffs then.

I don’t get why everyone is being so sensitive about this take. It takes nothing away from Crosby’s legacy.

Crosby has 16 points in 20 games since 18/19. Ovi has 24 in 30.

Similar playoff rates.

I guess I don't get dying on an island citing playoff value of a guy who has made it past the second round exactly once in a 20 year career, with many first round flameouts while hoisting the Presidents' Trophy. There may be some merit to @sovietsanta87 position here.

The guy earned the accolades he gets, and will be remembered for the most fearsome shot in history, but to compare him as a complete player to Sid is just preposterous. I don't need analytics to tell me that.

But your point about sensitivity has some validity, too. You're treading on sacred ground right now. ;-)

 

[Gurglesons]

I guess I don't get dying on an island citing playoff value of a guy who has made it past the second round exactly once in a 20 year career, with many first round flameouts while hoisting the Presidents' Trophy. There may be some merit to @sovietsanta87 position here.

The guy earned the accolades he gets, and will be remembered for the most fearsome shot in history, but to compare him as a complete player to Sid is just preposterous. I don't need analytics to tell me that.

But your point about sensitivity has some validity, too. You're treading on sacred ground right now. ;-)

My overall point is that people are criticizing Ovechkin for being a one trick pony the last few years and the reality is that Sid is too.

The entire Penguins team since 18-19 has been built around getting Sid the puck and Sid scoring. It's been a huge issue of why we haven't done well because Sullivan is so focused on Sid versus the team.

And I get it, Sid's the best player and one of the best players in the league, but I'd argue the Caps have been way more focused on building a winning team than the Penguins have since they've won the cup.

Also, Sid is clearly the better player career wise.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Exactly, so how can you dunk on him for not trading Rakell for "value" at the TDL? You don't know what the offers were. If the best we got was a 2nd and b-prospect, Dubas was very correct in not trading him. But you said that he only has a B- TDL because didn't get value for him. Which I am calling out as BS.

Why would Dubas move a player that desperately balances Crosby's line and helps Sid produce?

You had the FSG twat come out and say he owes it to Sid to blah blah blah and then keeps Sullivan around which directly shits all over wanting to win more for him. Crosby without Rakell is a nightmare, even if Dubas did want to move him, he knows that. They literally f***ed over Geno to prove that point as well.

I think a lot of you blokes have it twisted with what this franchise actually wants to do. They think Crosby producing even if the team is shit, means it puts butts in seats and that it's enough to also keep Sid happy because he looks good with his production. This is what this franchise has become and while a lot of you may think "oh that's just your opinion" or some shit, no mate, it's quite literally just the f***ing facts.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

My overall point is that people are criticizing Ovechkin for being a one trick pony the last few years and the reality is that Sid is too.

The entire Penguins team since 18-19 has been built around getting Sid the puck and Sid scoring. It's been a huge issue of why we haven't done well because Sullivan is so focused on Sid versus the team.

And I get it, Sid's the best player and one of the best players in the league, but I'd argue the Caps have been way more focused on building a winning team than the Penguins have since they've won the cup.

Also, Sid is clearly the better player career wise.

And this is why they didn't move Rakell.

The Penguins pretended for a long time that this was a team that won by committee and that those other players mean a ton to them, but their actions never quite showed it and now with all of the lustre worn off and all you saw is the raw shit, you see the team for what it is. They're no better than when the Caps were just helping Ovechkin chase stats and stuff like that up until they decided to actually let him do that but also do the right things to plan for after his career.

Meanwhile, this franchise cares more about Crosby doing well, even at the expense of Malkin and actually winning or being a team that has a bright future. Sullivan panders to Sid, Sid praises Sullivan, FSG gets a hard on for all of that.

 

[Old Gregg]

As I said, I'm not someone that puts goals over assists, but I do think there is value in being a top 5 scoring winger versus a 7-10 center.



I'm not sure what this has to do with the argument about Crosby vs Ovechkin since 18-19.

So you think a winger who generally floats and relies heavily on his teammates to do the work is more impactful than a center who does a lot of the heavy lifting on his line, takes faceoffs and provides more offense for his team? Odd

During all 4 cup runs for the 2 teams Washington finished ahead of the Pens. When they stumbled they were smart enough to fire their coach and make changes. The Pens have made some changes but are still allowing the same idiot to continue to coach this team. I am not sure how you can claim Ovie has been better since 18/19 just because his organization knows when to make changes

 

[SEALBound]

Why would Dubas move a player that desperately balances Crosby's line and helps Sid produce?

You had the FSG twat come out and say he owes it to Sid to blah blah blah and then keeps Sullivan around which directly shits all over wanting to win more for him. Crosby without Rakell is a nightmare, even if Dubas did want to move him, he knows that. They literally f***ed over Geno to prove that point as well.

I think a lot of you blokes have it twisted with what this franchise actually wants to do. They think Crosby producing even if the team is shit, means it puts butts in seats and that it's enough to also keep Sid happy because he looks good with his production. This is what this franchise has become and while a lot of you may think "oh that's just your opinion" or some shit, no mate, it's quite literally just the f***ing facts.

When Geno is done playing, he's headed back to Russia or maybe Florida to live out the rest of his days. Maaaaaaaybe get involved with a local team.

When Sid is done, he's headed to some form of player development or front-office management where he will continue to be an icon for the city, the team, and hockey.

Which one would you be favoring if you were FSG?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Why would Dubas move a player that desperately balances Crosby's line and helps Sid produce?

You had the FSG twat come out and say he owes it to Sid to blah blah blah and then keeps Sullivan around which directly shits all over wanting to win more for him. Crosby without Rakell is a nightmare, even if Dubas did want to move him, he knows that. They literally f***ed over Geno to prove that point as well.

I think a lot of you blokes have it twisted with what this franchise actually wants to do. They think Crosby producing even if the team is shit, means it puts butts in seats and that it's enough to also keep Sid happy because he looks good with his production. This is what this franchise has become and while a lot of you may think "oh that's just your opinion" or some shit, no mate, it's quite literally just the f***ing facts.

And this is why they didn't move Rakell.

The Penguins pretended for a long time that this was a team that won by committee and that those other players mean a ton to them, but their actions never quite showed it and now with all of the lustre worn off and all you saw is the raw shit, you see the team for what it is. They're no better than when the Caps were just helping Ovechkin chase stats and stuff like that up until they decided to actually let him do that but also do the right things to plan for after his career.

Meanwhile, this franchise cares more about Crosby doing well, even at the expense of Malkin and actually winning or being a team that has a bright future. Sullivan panders to Sid, Sid praises Sullivan, FSG gets a hard on for all of that.

Except...this whole premise falls apart when we remember the Pens traded the Robin to Crosby's Batman last year.

If stat chasing for Sid were all that mattered, Guentzel never would have been dealt.

Clearly there were other factors at play for Rakell.

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

Except...this whole premise falls apart when we remember the Pens traded the Robin to Crosby's Batman last year.

If stat chasing for Sid were all that mattered, Guentzel never would have been dealt.

Clearly there were other factors at play for Rakell.

Agreed, but let's not forget Jake was playing under a cap friendly expiring deal, eagerly anticipating his "payoff contract" coming up next. To Guentzel's credit, I still believe he wanted/thought he'd end up in Pittsburgh, but it did pan out that way.