The power play merchant argument

[AnInjuredJasonZucker]

Since this is basically a thread about the Oilers, game management as it pertains to a player like Connor McDavid means that the ratio of penalties called to infractions against is way out of whack compared to other players. As such, teams are able to, for lack of a better term, cheat their way to controlling him 5 on 5. The playing field is not level. If the game was called by the book, McDavid would have substantially more PP points. Or, if teams were getting torched to a much higher degree and played more disciplined against him, McDavid's 5v5 points would go up.

And that's what it comes down to. Teams that don't like getting lit up on the powerplay need to put more effort into not taking penalties.

 

[nturn06]

I mean it's clearly obvious that it's easier to score when your team has an extra player on the ice, which is why people compare scoring rates 5v5.

Powerplay success is also heavily dependent on the skill players are surrounded by, but more importantly, the scheme the coaches implement. This is probably the most underrated part of powerplay success. Every season teams with dynamic offensive players go through stretches of PP struggles or just an overall bad PP because they are following coaches orders and what they practice.

So in this case, more credit should be given to Edmonton's coaching staff. Full marks for Bouchards' shot, Draisaitl's vision and McDavid's playmaking, but most skilled players will produce with the proper time in space. Credit Edmonton's staff for creating schemes and setups that utilize the talent of their players and provide them with that time and space.

The point being, a successful PP (especially a historically successful PP) is more of a reflection of the coaching staff than the players, but the players get the recognition for their execution. Which is fair, but it doensn't make them supreme beings compared to other skilled players around the league that would find equal success in the same situation

I see, if Arizona hires Woodcroft, their PP will rock... Good to know.

 

[Frank Drebin]

I mean it's clearly obvious that it's easier to score when your team has an extra player on the ice, which is why people compare scoring rates 5v5.

Powerplay success is also heavily dependent on the skill players are surrounded by, but more importantly, the scheme the coaches implement. This is probably the most underrated part of powerplay success. Every season teams with dynamic offensive players go through stretches of PP struggles or just an overall bad PP because they are following coaches orders and what they practice.

So in this case, more credit should be given to Edmonton's coaching staff. Full marks for Bouchards' shot, Draisaitl's vision and McDavid's playmaking, but most skilled players will produce with the proper time in space. Credit Edmonton's staff for creating schemes and setups that utilize the talent of their players and provide them with that time and space.

The point being, a successful PP (especially a historically successful PP) is more of a reflection of the coaching staff than the players, but the players get the recognition for their execution. Which is fair, but it doensn't make them supreme beings compared to other skilled players around the league that would find equal success in the same situation

Well played.

I was going to say its a big inside joke, some posters are really good at playing along with it.

 

[Despote]

This makes me think you've never watched Kucherov rip one-timers on the PP, or have seen him pass the puck. Skill-wise, these two are extremely equal. I think it's ridiculous to claim the Oiler's PP would suffer if they traded places. Would Tampa's PP suddenly jump 5%?

Also what you're saying about 'right-handed shot' and Draisaitls role being situational alludes to the coach implementing systems that suit the players on their team. A lot of time this isn't the case.

Last four seasons Kucherov's shooting percentage on the powerplay has been 12.12%. Draisaitl's has been 25.75 (!!!), over double Kucherov's.

Draisaitl has scored 4.6 goals/60 with 2.86 ixg/60. Kucherov has scored 1.61 g/60 with 1.63 ixg/60.

It's pretty difficult to argue that Kucherov could come even close to Draisail's goalscoring on the powerplay, even if it is obviously aided by having McDavid there.

 

[TheOrangeDesk]

Which is still a scheme instituted by the coaching staff.... lots of movement and different looks. You're proving my point. The PPs that struggle usually are the stagnant ones that are predictable.

lol no dude. if you think the players dont matter why does this coaching staff use the first unit for the entire time?

 

[authentic]

Last four seasons Kucherov's shooting percentage on the powerplay has been 12.12%. Draisaitl's has been 25.75 (!!!), over double Kucherov's.

Draisaitl has scored 4.6 goals/60 with 2.86 ixg/60. Kucherov has scored 1.61 g/60 with 1.63 ixg/60.

It's pretty difficult to argue that Kucherov could come even close to Draisail's goalscoring on the powerplay, even if it is obviously aided by having McDavid there.

Also would Kucherov have 13 goals right now playing with McDavid? The answer is obviously no

 

[Hynh]

Which is still a scheme instituted by the coaching staff.... lots of movement and different looks. You're proving my point. The PPs that struggle usually are the stagnant ones that are predictable.

 

[Hennessy]

Before these playoffs I was harsh on Edmonton. PP is great, but you can't count on it in the postseasson.
Well, when the percentages are that high, maybe you can.

 

[RapidKnight]

I think the most obvious argument is powerplay opportunity is disproportional to even strength opportunity. According to my own calculations PPP production was 3.23 times greater than 5v5 this season. Also 7.8% more points were scored per goal on the powerplay this season so PPG production is 2.98 times as much. I’d argue a PPP should be worth at least 7.8% less at a bare minimum.

 

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaa]

Every player in the NHL has the opportunity to play on power plays and succeed at the same rate a McDavid and the rest of the Oilers. They want to. They work for it.

They can't do it.

 

[Freaky Styley]

I see, if Arizona hires Woodcroft, their PP will rock... Good to know.

Does Woodcroft run the PP? If so, it would probably see an improvement, yes.

Never did I say that the talent level of a PP doesn't play a part. This thread is about calling players 'powerplay merchants'. I'm saying that PP numbers and success isn't an accurate representation of respective skill level, there are many other factors at play. PP production shouldn't be a heavily weighed component when we are discussing which player is 'better'.

If anything, I will concede that McDavid is a powerplay god. He's clearly the most talented player in the world, and his blazing speed and hands are what makes him so good. Therefore, open ice and roaming capacity that the PP provides really benefits his skillset, and allows him to capitalize. Everyone that plays with McDavid could be called 'powerplay merchants' because they benefit from all of the chaos he creates.

This year he wasn't the best player at 5v5. People are free to draw whatever conclusions they want from that, but there were other players equally productive there. It's the PP production that set him apart

Last four seasons Kucherov's shooting percentage on the powerplay has been 12.12%. Draisaitl's has been 25.75 (!!!), over double Kucherov's.

Draisaitl has scored 4.6 goals/60 with 2.86 ixg/60. Kucherov has scored 1.61 g/60 with 1.63 ixg/60.

It's pretty difficult to argue that Kucherov could come even close to Draisail's goalscoring on the powerplay, even if it is obviously aided by having McDavid there.

You do know how shooting percentage works, right? Usually, shooting percentage is directly related to high danger scoring chances. You know, good looks/empty nets to shoot at.

To my point above, Draisaitl's far better shooting % than Kucherov on the PP isn;t simply 'aided' by McDavid, it's a direct product of McDavid. You're telling me that if Kucherov and Draisaitl switched teams that those numbers remain the same?


RNH was the ultimate 'powerplay merchant' this year. This is my response to the OP's question

 

[Freaky Styley]

I get your point, but using McDavid as a roamer an setting up different looks off of that is a clear strategy. Many other players don't have that kind of freedom (or yes, that kind of ability). But you won't see many other stars skating circles around the zone on the PP, they stick to the structure put forth by the coaching staff.

There's simply no denying that coaching plays a critical role on PP success. Talent does as well, including the mixture of skillsets. But as an Avs fan I've watched a powerplay with all the talent in the world struggle to put the puck in the net for lengths of time, even whole seasons. Meanwhile these same players are producing at elite levels 5v5. The Avs aren't alone in this. Where else to attribute that disparity but to poor tactics?

 

[SettlementRichie10]

You’re not going to spend more than 6-8 minutes on average on the power play. So if you can’t follow that up with great 5v5 play, you’re inevitably going to fall behind over the course of a large enough sample size (like a seven game series).

We’re literally seeing that play out right now in the VGK series. I guess Oilers fans need it written in extra special glitter crayon to understand.

 

[Elvs]

You’re not going to spend more than 6-8 minutes on average on the power play.

And this is not even mentioning the fact that Vegas put themselves in all kinds of unnecessary problems in game 5.

First an unnecessary hook in the offensive zone. Edmonton scores.

Then an unnessecary interference-trip when they have control of the puck. Edmonton scores again.

Then an unnecessary match penalty. Edmonton scores yet again.

And finally Eichel takes an unnecessary penalty when Vegas has a four minute power play.

Edmonton's power play may be the best in history, but there's no reason it needs to be THIS big of a factor. Vegas almost threw this game away, and they need to be a lot more disciplined if they wanna get past this round.

 

[thaman8765678]

I would rather a player play good all the time than just on the pp.

In playoffs there are usually less pps in later rounds, so you need to be good in all situations to go far.

 

[King Makar19]

Cole Caufield willbea prime example.

 

[Panthaz89]

I think there is an argument there. It is a slightly different game in the playoffs. Like obviously if a guy is good at the powerplay, that's a great asset to have. I'd love for the Canes to have a specialist powerplay sniper right now. Steph Noesen is the closest thing we got with our injuries.

By itself, being good at the PP is only a positive. However, there are a number of players who are bad defensively, and good offensively. Connor McDavid is below average defensively, but so elite offensively that he's well more than worth it. For the Canes last year, Tony DeAngelo was great on the power play, and pretty terrible defensively. In round 1, TDA was lights out, super helpful. In round 2 against the Rangers, TDA definitely did more harm than good.

If anything he's still pretty good at D and effective on the PK unit in spite of playing 25+ minutes which is crazy for a forward.

 

[DingerMcSlapshot]

Last four seasons Kucherov's shooting percentage on the powerplay has been 12.12%. Draisaitl's has been 25.75 (!!!), over double Kucherov's.

Draisaitl has scored 4.6 goals/60 with 2.86 ixg/60. Kucherov has scored 1.61 g/60 with 1.63 ixg/60.

It's pretty difficult to argue that Kucherov could come even close to Draisail's goalscoring on the powerplay, even if it is obviously aided by having McDavid there.

Kuch can't hear you.....something about Stanley Cup rings in his ears.

 

[jonlin]

Every player in the NHL has the opportunity to play on power plays

Not in NYR. Look at for example Kaapo Kakko:

In his first season 2019-2020 as 18yr old:

66gp 10g 13a 23p -23 Of his points 13 were on the PP avg. 2.5min/game PP

Now in 2022-2023:

82gp 18g 22a 40p +12 Only 3a on the PP. Starts only in D-zone on PP and avg. 50+s/game

Ooh, and in the playoffs he got 30s/game and averaged 13min/game. Good asset-management or what?

 

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaa]

Not in NYR. Look at for example Kaapo Kakko:

In his first season 2019-2020 as 18yr old:

66gp 10g 13a 23p -23 Of his points 13 were on the PP avg. 2.5min/game PP

Now in 2022-2023:

82gp 18g 22a 40p +12 Only 3a on the PP. Starts only in D-zone on PP and avg. 50+s/game

Ooh, and in the playoffs he got 30s/game and averaged 13min/game. Good asset-management or what?

If he had b een good enough, he would have been on the PP.

Do you honestly think if he was a 60 goal scorer, he would not have been allowed on the PP?

He wasn't on the PP because the coaches, who know a million times more than fans, knew he couldn't handle it.

 

[Ghetty Green]

Also would Kucherov have 13 goals right now playing with McDavid? The answer is obviously no

Really ? I wouldn't be surprised at all if Kucherov could get 13 goals in the same situation.

 

[authentic]

Really ? I wouldn't be surprised at all if Kucherov could get 13 goals in the same situation.

Lol... what? His career high in the playoffs is 8 goals in 23 games.

 

[Ghetty Green]

Lol... what? His career high in the playoffs is 8 goals in 23 games.

You're underestimating the McDavid effect. Rantanen could just as well too.

 

[kranuck]

I think it's a dumb way to discredit people.

I think a large part of it is the "let them play" nonsense that's been pushed for long and suckered so many fans into thinking power plays are somehow "lesser" than 5 on 5. This stupid idea that it's somehow better when they throw out the rulebook, that real hockey allows stupid shit like cross checks or absolutely ridiculous holding (like play is all the way down the ice and a guy is still trying to wrench himself free of an opponent).

Vs just recognizing how much a great power play impacts the game all over and loving how exciting it is when special teams take the ice. Of course this route means you get so sick of playoff hockey bullshit you want to quit watching altogether.

 

[kranuck]

...Between the guy who gets 50ESP and 0 PPP /82, and the one who gets 25ESP and 25PPP/82, I'm taking the first 1000 times out of 1000, and every one should do so.

but why though?