HF Habs: The Positivity Thread (Part II)...

[CHfan1]

I really like the changes in Laval, getting rid of Sly and bringing in Bouchard. It’ll help to be better develop the young prospects.

 

[Kriss E]

I will be rooting for the team to win every game. I don’t have the ability to root to lose.
The way I see it, if this team is good enough to battle for a playoff spot, with a very young roster, the future is brighter than what most here think. If this team sucks and is in last place all year, the future is along way off.
If Drouin can have a better year, Domi shakes off last year, Lehkonen has a solid season, Hudon, Mete, Juulsen, Reilly, Armia, show they are as good as we hope this team will have a good year. I know that’s a lot of “ifs” to happen, but in August, I am the most positive I can be

I mean...even if all those ''ifs'' you mentioned come through...would we even make the POs?...What's a good season for Juulsen, Mete, Hudon, Reilly? Those guys have very low expectations so them having a ''good'' season doesn't mean a whole lot to us.
Drouin playing better...hot dang, I sure as hell hope he will, I mean, can you imagine if he's worse? What would that be? Finishing in the 30s for points? What a cluster f*** that would be...
Domi...outproduce his 9 goals?..

So ya, even if all the guys you mentioned have better seasons, how's that going to lead us to any kind of success next season?

It's time for some of you to realize making the POs next season is very far from being a positive thing for this team.
It would be a complete waste of time and opportunity.


The most positive thing going for this organization is Kotka and seeing how Bouchard can shape up the youngsters in AHL.

 

[Kriss E]

It's easy to say that you want this team to lose as much as possible right now but if this team starts miraculously winning games, that narrative will change dramatically to full on support of a playoff push.

I'm pretty sure Devils and Avs fans weren't expecting to make the playoffs this year but they sure as hell weren't angry that they did. Things can change so dramatically in this league.

That being said, I don't think this team will even come close to sniffing a playoff spot this year.

Avs made the POs twice over past 9 years. It would make sense for their fans to get excited to get some PO action again. Same for the Devils who went 5 seasons straight without post season hockey before this year.
Not at all similar to our situation.

I can only speak for myself, but I'd be quite upset if this team is battling for the POs. We should be rebuilding and I've been saying it since last summer.
That's what is positive so far this season, is the team is so bad we are pretty much set to finish in the bottom even if we try very hard to succeed.

 

[Miller Time]

another possible positive...

with such a weak roster, and so many young and/or reclamation project players, we have some of the right ingredients for an underdog mojo run a la vegas.

On D:
Ouellette
Reilly
Depres
Juulsen
Mete

all of these guys are staring at only Petry/Alzner/Benn/Schlemko standing between them and top-4 minutes/role in the NHL... if that's not motivation/opportunity waiting to be seized, i don't know what is.

Up front...
we've got the weakest C depth in the league, with only Plekanec and Danault legitimate NHL caliber C's
Drouin/JDR/Peca/Evans/Froese may be underwhelming, but again, opportunity awaits anyone willing to seize it.

we've got a ton of W's, but only Gallagher and Domi's are true locks in top-6 W roles to start the season... Patches (who may not start the season) & Drouin(who may get misplaced at C yet again) are there on paper, but unlikely that both are lining up on the W for us come opening day.
Scherbak/Peca/Lekhonen/Hudon/Armia/Shaw/Byron/Rychel/McCarron all could legitimately aspire to forcing their way into a top-6 or top-9 role.

we basically have real opportunity for an "outsider" to come into the season and earn his way into a top-6/top-4 role at every single position. I don't think any other team in the league has such a wide open competition/opportunity for meaningful role/ice time...

If Julien and his staff do a heck of a coaching job, they could translate that opportunity into a pretty intense and highly motivated roster willing to outwork opponents on a nightly basis.

 

[Belial]

Those elite results would require Price getting decent support from the D. Without Weber it's very unlikely. But not impossible. Mete and Juulsen are two interesting wildcards who'll be leaned on more and could have a bigger impact than we're expecting.

Somehow Niemi managed to end the season with a .929 Sv% behind the same D...

 

[Kriss E]

another possible positive...

with such a weak roster, and so many young and/or reclamation project players, we have some of the right ingredients for an underdog mojo run a la vegas.

On D:
Ouellette
Reilly
Depres
Juulsen
Mete

all of these guys are staring at only Petry/Alzner/Benn/Schlemko standing between them and top-4 minutes/role in the NHL... if that's not motivation/opportunity waiting to be seized, i don't know what is.

Up front...
we've got the weakest C depth in the league, with only Plekanec and Danault legitimate NHL caliber C's
Drouin/JDR/Peca/Evans/Froese may be underwhelming, but again, opportunity awaits anyone willing to seize it.

we've got a ton of W's, but only Gallagher and Domi's are true locks in top-6 W roles to start the season... Patches (who may not start the season) & Drouin(who may get misplaced at C yet again) are there on paper, but unlikely that both are lining up on the W for us come opening day.
Scherbak/Peca/Lekhonen/Hudon/Armia/Shaw/Byron/Rychel/McCarron all could legitimately aspire to forcing their way into a top-6 or top-9 role.

we basically have real opportunity for an "outsider" to come into the season and earn his way into a top-6/top-4 role at every single position. I don't think any other team in the league has such a wide open competition/opportunity for meaningful role/ice time...

If Julien and his staff do a heck of a coaching job, they could translate that opportunity into a pretty intense and highly motivated roster willing to outwork opponents on a nightly basis.

Pretty much the entire top 6 of Vegas scored over 20g. They had four 25+ scorers, one of which scored 43, and one under with 22. They had four players producing at close to 1ppg pace.
Sure, one can argue some of those guys kinda came out of nowhere, I have no problem with that. But pretty much all of them also wanted to prove to the world it was a mistake to cast them out.
This isn't our situation at all. We don't have proud NHLers coming in with a chip on their shoulders. We have a bunch of youngsters that will go up against each other. Again, this isn't what Vegas was.

Also, our best forward, Patches, was told he isn't getting an extension and was involved in trade rumors/possibilities. He's not coming in with the attitude of ''Go Habs Go'', he's going with the ''Go Max Go so I can GTFO asap" mindset. So even if he does, Mtl should be looking to move him, not hold onto him to go on a borderline impossible cinderella run.
To make matters worse, our best guy on defense is injured for almost half the year...

This isn't me being negative. I think hoping for miracles is a negative thing. Let's stay in the real world instead and hope Bergevin has a real plan to fix this mess instead.

 

[Kriss E]

Somehow Niemi managed to end the season with a .929 Sv% behind the same D...

Starting in 17 games...

 

[Belial]

Starting in 17 games...

Well, 17 games are almost 1/4 of a season it's not 2 or 3 games... The sample is decent IMO.

 

[Kriss E]

Well, 17 games are almost 1/4 of a season it's not 2 or 3 games... The sample is decent IMO.

It's a decent sample to say he played well here during that stretch, not that he can do it over the course of a full season. Hopefully he won't have to though, which makes him a good back up option.
Important to note, that .929 average still just provided 7 wins out of those 17 starts, so, not sure how that helps your argument.

 

[Bryson]

I really like the changes in Laval, getting rid of Sly and bringing in Bouchard. It’ll help to be better develop the young prospects.

The last time the Habs farm team won the Calder Cup was back in 2006-07 when Carey Price won the Jack A. Butterfield trophy. They made it to the conference finals back to back in 2010/2011 under Guy Boucher but have never made the playoffs since then. I wonder if this is the year they finally make the playoffs especially if Kotkaniemi plays for the Rockets this year.

 

[Belial]

It's a decent sample to say he played well here during that stretch, not that he can do it over the course of a full season. Hopefully he won't have to though, which makes him a good back up option.
Important to note, that .929 average still just provided 7 wins out of those 17 starts, so, not sure how that helps your argument.

Again, the point here is that Price was just bad, he had a brutal season, no need to blame the D here. Niemi proved that a good Sv% was achievable behind that D.

Not to mention that he played a lot of those games without Plekanec, Danault and Pacioretty in the lineup.

His record was 7-5-4 so that's 18 points out of 32 possible , a 92 points season pace...

 

[Lshap]

another possible positive...

with such a weak roster, and so many young and/or reclamation project players, we have some of the right ingredients for an underdog mojo run a la vegas.

On D:
Ouellette
Reilly
Depres
Juulsen
Mete

all of these guys are staring at only Petry/Alzner/Benn/Schlemko standing between them and top-4 minutes/role in the NHL... if that's not motivation/opportunity waiting to be seized, i don't know what is.

Up front...
we've got the weakest C depth in the league, with only Plekanec and Danault legitimate NHL caliber C's
Drouin/JDR/Peca/Evans/Froese may be underwhelming, but again, opportunity awaits anyone willing to seize it.

we've got a ton of W's, but only Gallagher and Domi's are true locks in top-6 W roles to start the season... Patches (who may not start the season) & Drouin(who may get misplaced at C yet again) are there on paper, but unlikely that both are lining up on the W for us come opening day.
Scherbak/Peca/Lekhonen/Hudon/Armia/Shaw/Byron/Rychel/McCarron all could legitimately aspire to forcing their way into a top-6 or top-9 role.

we basically have real opportunity for an "outsider" to come into the season and earn his way into a top-6/top-4 role at every single position. I don't think any other team in the league has such a wide open competition/opportunity for meaningful role/ice time...

If Julien and his staff do a heck of a coaching job, they could translate that opportunity into a pretty intense and highly motivated roster willing to outwork opponents on a nightly basis.

First of all, props for really getting into the spirit of the thread.

One thing I definitely agree with is this season becoming a pivot-point for young players to either rise or fall. I'm not expecting a Cinderella run (I doubt you seriously are, either) but I am hoping we discover one or two top-line players amidst our usual swamp of depth players. I'd be shocked if de la Rose scores more than 10 goals, but I'd love to be proven wrong.

My positivity contribution is expecting Drouin and Domi to have strong seasons and make us rethink those trades.

 

[Lshap]

Again, the point here is that Price was just bad, he had a brutal season, no need to blame the D here. Niemi proved that a good Sv% was achievable behind that D.

Not to mention that he played a lot of those games without Plekanec, Danault and Pacioretty in the lineup.

His record was 7-5-4 so that's 18 points out of 32 possible , a 92 points season pace...

Price was bad; there's no way to sugarcoat it. But for him to rebound with a .930ish SV% takes more than raw talent. It requires the help of a smart core of dmen who play effectively around him, clear bodies in front of the net, limit the high-danger shots, and give him clear sightlines for the lower-danger shots. Price is good enough to put up a .920 SV% almost by himself, but .930 over 50ish games is a group effort.

 

[yianik]

First of all, props for really getting into the spirit of the thread.

One thing I definitely agree with is this season becoming a pivot-point for young players to either rise or fall. I'm not expecting a Cinderella run (I doubt you seriously are, either) but I am hoping we discover one or two top-line players amidst our usual swamp of depth players. I'd be shocked if de la Rose scores more than 10 goals, but I'd love to be proven wrong.

My positivity contribution is expecting Drouin and Domi to have strong seasons and make us rethink those trades.

You have to work with what you got, and I, like I think many here, went into lets see what the young guys have mode last year. We are not remotely a Cup challenging team and I also do not see us as a play off challenging team, so I think we need to stick with the lets see what the young guys have, without rushing anybody ( Kotkaniemi please stay in Liiga as an example ). I get though that CJ will claw for every point he can get, I just hope it does not come at the cost of the young guys getting their TOI, especially as the season wears on.

But it all starts with CJ at this point. Is he going to stick with fringe vets a la waiver Shaw at the expense of young guys ? Is he going to play the young guys where they can have success, and not be too harsh with the invariable mistakes ? If CJ is patient then yes , it will be very interesting to see how things unfold. Now obviously it will be really disappointing if the young guys all flounder, but if a couple start really showing something then that will be very exciting to watch, and give much needed hope for the future.

I have some optimism here because I really cannot remember a time when so many prospects and young players took good development leaps like last season. Guys like Poehling, Primeau, Fleury, Mete, Juulsen, Hudon, Sherbak etc. all took good steps forward and while nobody stands out as a blue chipper, these guys are not scrub ceiling potential players.

 

[Lshap]

You have to work with what you got, and I, like I think many here, went into lets see what the young guys have mode last year. We are not remotely a Cup challenging team and I also do not see us as a play off challenging team, so I think we need to stick with the lets see what the young guys have, without rushing anybody ( Kotkaniemi please stay in Liiga as an example ). I get though that CJ will claw for every point he can get, I just hope it does not come at the cost of the young guys getting their TOI, especially as the season wears on.

But it all starts with CJ at this point. Is he going to stick with fringe vets a la waiver Shaw at the expense of young guys ? Is he going to play the young guys where they can have success, and not be too harsh with the invariable mistakes ? If CJ is patient then yes , it will be very interesting to see how things unfold. Now obviously it will be really disappointing if the young guys all flounder, but if a couple start really showing something then that will be very exciting to watch, and give much needed hope for the future.

I have some optimism here because I really cannot remember a time when so many prospects and young players took good development leaps like last season. Guys like Poehling, Primeau, Fleury, Mete, Juulsen, Hudon, Sherbak etc. all took good steps forward and while nobody stands out as a blue chipper, these guys are not scrub ceiling potential players.

Yup. This'll be the first season in a long time that I'll be ignoring the standings and focusing exclusively on the players.

 

[Miller Time]

Pretty much the entire top 6 of Vegas scored over 20g. They had four 25+ scorers, one of which scored 43, and one under with 22. They had four players producing at close to 1ppg pace.
Sure, one can argue some of those guys kinda came out of nowhere, I have no problem with that. But pretty much all of them also wanted to prove to the world it was a mistake to cast them out.
This isn't our situation at all. We don't have proud NHLers coming in with a chip on their shoulders. We have a bunch of youngsters that will go up against each other. Again, this isn't what Vegas was.

Also, our best forward, Patches, was told he isn't getting an extension and was involved in trade rumors/possibilities. He's not coming in with the attitude of ''Go Habs Go'', he's going with the ''Go Max Go so I can GTFO asap" mindset. So even if he does, Mtl should be looking to move him, not hold onto him to go on a borderline impossible cinderella run.
To make matters worse, our best guy on defense is injured for almost half the year...

This isn't me being negative. I think hoping for miracles is a negative thing. Let's stay in the real world instead and hope Bergevin has a real plan to fix this mess instead.

So your positive reflection/contribution is what exactly?

 

[Belial]

Price was bad; there's no way to sugarcoat it. But for him to rebound with a .930ish SV% takes more than raw talent. It requires the help of a smart core of dmen who play effectively around him, clear bodies in front of the net, limit the high-danger shots, and give him clear sightlines for the lower-danger shots. Price is good enough to put up a .920 SV% almost by himself, but .930 over 50ish games is a group effort.

While the D was clearly not stellar and we missed our #1D for almost the entire season the stats show that it was not that bad as people think...

This are the High Danger Chances Against numbers at 5on5 for the last 3 seasons:

17/18 674
16/17 637
15/16 651

While we indeed allowed more HDCA this year (with Weber out) the difference is not humongous IMO.

 

[Lshap]

While the D was clearly not stellar and we missed our #1D for almost the entire season the stats show that it was not that bad as people think...

This are the High Danger Chances Against numbers at 5on5 for the last 3 seasons:

17/18 674
16/17 637
15/16 651

While we indeed allowed more HDCA this year (with Weber out) the difference is not humongous IMO.

I was trying to track down shot-quality stats but couldn't find a good site. Where'd you get your numbers? I did find this article on Carey Price from February, which breaks down shot quality and quantity over his past few seasons. It kind of supports your opinion, while still factoring in the obvious drop in defence quality:

Analyze This: High-danger shots become kryptonite for Carey Price

 

[Belial]

I was trying to track down shot-quality stats but couldn't find a good site. Where'd you get your numbers? I did find this article on Carey Price from February, which breaks down shot quality and quantity over his past few seasons. It kind of supports your opinion, while still factoring in the obvious drop in defence quality:

Analyze This: High-danger shots become kryptonite for Carey Price

That article doesn't just support my opinion, it shows clearly what I've been saying for a while... Price was really bad last season. Just him being Price again would put this team in a PO position.

Because all the other underlying stats don't point to such a terrible season, the only thing that was extremely bad was the Sv% and the shooting%...

You can find stats here.

 

[417]

Positive thoughts/hopes/dreams

* Jonathan Drouin learning from last year and establishing himself as a viable top 6C
* Artturi Lehkonen, Charles Hudon & Jacob De la Rose taking on larger roles
* Nikita Scherbak & Noah Juulsen establishing themselves as full-time NHLers
* Mike Reilly filling the void of LHPMD

 

[Belial]

Positive thoughts/hopes/dreams

* Jonathan Drouin learning from last year and establishing himself as a viable top 6C
* Artturi Lehkonen, Charles Hudon & Jacob De la Rose taking on larger roles
* Nikita Scherbak & Noah Juulsen establishing themselves as full-time NHLers
* Mike Reilly filling the void of LHPMD

Those are too realistic for this thread)

You have to be bolder around here.

 

[Kriss E]

So your positive reflection/contribution is what exactly?

To hope for a very bad season. A bad year is what we should all be hoping for.

 

[Kriss E]

Again, the point here is that Price was just bad, he had a brutal season, no need to blame the D here. Niemi proved that a good Sv% was achievable behind that D.

Not to mention that he played a lot of those games without Plekanec, Danault and Pacioretty in the lineup.

His record was 7-5-4 so that's 18 points out of 32 possible , a 92 points season pace...

Ya, Price was bad, and so was that D, and pretty much the rest of the team.
As for Nieimi, you realize his .929 is a career high? A tad silly to prorate this over an 82 game season. You have to go back to his U20 days for when he finished with a higher sv%.

But not sure how you're trying to prove that the D wasn't to blame when a .929% only gets you 18pts out of 32...that's freaking bad dude.

 

[417]

To hope for a very bad season. A bad year is what we should all be hoping for.

That's about as positive as you can get lol

I'll take it

 

[Kriss E]

That's about as positive as you can get lol

I'll take it

I like to stay within the realm of reality. Having a bad year, meaning finishing low, would be a terrific thing.
That coupled with improvement from youngsters, Bouchard putting it good foundation in AHL, us moving Patches for terrific return and seeing Weber back in full form by January, and Bergevin fired by May 2019.