OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Sneaking up onto training camp

[Ryder71]

Cops on a fundamental level, just want to go home to their families after they are done working. No different from you or I.

Bc cops are human, they respond to any escalation by a suspect with further escalation bc they need to maintain power and control over the situation. That end goal of maintaining control sometimes comes at the expense of off the cuff remarks or behavior.

Can people really argue with the statement of: if Tyrek would have rolled his window down, we wouldn't be dealing with this sideshow?

I'm willing to lay money down that the cop had the intention of giving a citation for reckless driving/speeding and allowing Hill to be on his merry way. Hell, the cop may have given Hill a warning once he found out who he was. But Hill's actions sent this situation down an entirely different path.

Note I'm in no way excusing the cop(s) for putting him down on the ground twice. That seemed unnecessary, but Hill chose his own adventure and bears responsibility for his actions too.

Great post, well said!

 

[ImporterExporter]

So I heard Scotty Miller never held for kicks prior to Sunday.

I’m the biggest Mike Tomlin hater there is but after listening to Scotty Miller explain at practice Mike Tomlin noticed they needed a back up holder and asked if he could do it and he’s like sure I could do it. I feel like I gotta give Tom some props on that one.

That's nice and all but when you haven't won a playoff game since the Obama administration, I really don't care about the reasons why not.

Players all sing his praises and until recently the media largely washed his balls with the priciest soap, but the standard is the standard!

 

[bigdaddyk88]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1833137495476777022

 

[bambamcam4ever]

I'm probably just looking for reasons to be pessimistic, but I'm growing more and more concerned about Jones not living up to his round 1 hype. He obviously really struggled in the pre-season and gave up 2 sacks and took a penalty in week 1. I know there is some aspect of him playing RT rather than LT, but I was expecting a large jump from him that seemingly hasn't materialized yet.

Frazier was a monster in week 1 though and I was really happy with the little I saw from Anderson, but this team really needs Jones to hit his upside and I'm growing concerned about it.

One of the sacks Fields rolled out 20 yards to the left.

 

[xlm34]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1833137495476777022

Yeah the WR situation is gonna bite them in the ass at some point. I’m not really sure how they’re going to fix things at this point. Maybe Wilson can stabilize things a bit but I don’t necessarily have the highest hopes of that.

 

[Peat]

The weird thing is Van Jefferson outsnapped Pickens. I was expecting to see videos of him being a great blocker as a result, not... that.

I'm just gonna hope it was a rough day at the mill. I mean, Smith knows him, he wouldn't have had him brought in if he couldn't block... right? Right?

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Hey man I would’ve pounded the table for Zach Pascal (in ARI now) when he was an FA.

Skowronek would intriguing as a blocker

Roman Wilson isn’t gonna contribute in that way I don’t think. Hopefully I’m wrong.

Never made sense why we didn’t grab a “big slot” at some point the past 2 years for how much they seem to want to run the ball

 

[WickedWrister]

The weird thing is Van Jefferson outsnapped Pickens. I was expecting to see videos of him being a great blocker as a result, not... that.

I'm just gonna hope it was a rough day at the mill. I mean, Smith knows him, he wouldn't have had him brought in if he couldn't block... right? Right?

Pickens was on the field for 100% snaps in 11 and 12 personnel, 0 snaps in 13 and 14 personnel. The latter is where Scotty Miller got most of his work. Pretty clear run situations. Is he our best blocking WR lol? 5'9" 175 lbs. I'm curious what Smith's rationale is there.

Hey man I would’ve pounded the table for Zach Pascal (in ARI now) when he was an FA.

Skowronek would intriguing as a blocker

Roman Wilson isn’t gonna contribute in that way I don’t think. Hopefully I’m wrong.

Never made sense why we didn’t grab a “big slot” at some point the past 2 years for how much they seem to want to run the ball

Smith doesn't really use a jumbo slot. Fewest % of 3 WR personnel in the league during his time as HC and OC. He loves him some MyCole Pruitt and Darnell instead.

 

[Peat]

A jumbo slot type player could be lined up where Van Jefferson is tho and maybe not get turned into a brown panted girl

 

[OnMyOwn]

A jumbo slot type player could be lined up where Van Jefferson is tho and maybe not get turned into a brown panted girl

That’s what I was thinking. Put Washington there, haha.

 

[JTG]

Btw, here's Orlovsky's take on the problem with Fields, which does also cover that first sack. The TLR summary is he's not moving the ball fast enough in certain situations.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1833522278279352499

Yeah, that is exactly it. I think once he gets some comfort that will help, and I also think Wilson will help. He's legitimate.

I’ve got a feeling that Dan Moore will get a contract from some team in free agency that will make Steelers fans puke/laugh/both.

Someone at the bar last night tried to sell that they are showcasing him. I give that theory too much credit. Wouldn't put it past Khan, but that's not a Tomlin move.

 

[T1K]

A jumbo slot type player could be lined up where Van Jefferson is tho and maybe not get turned into a brown panted girl

It’s finally time for a Chase Claypool reunion

 

[Peat]

It’s finally time for a Chase Claypool reunion

I guess that's one way to make Van Jefferson's blocking look good.

 

[Night Shift]

That's nice and all but when you haven't won a playoff game since the Obama administration, I really don't care about the reasons why not.

Players all sing his praises and until recently the media largely washed his balls with the priciest soap, but the standard is the standard!

There is one here who washes his balls daily! But that's the price you have to pay when you are up close to the action and also his spokesperson.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1833137495476777022

I mean Van Jefferson can't even line up correctly. He had the most snaps and the least production. Dude sucks

 

[pistolpete11]

Fwiw, the only American cop I've seen talk about their training made it sound like they got zero de-escalation training or similar.

For some reason, I'm not surprised.

I am about the last person to say don't worry about Jones, but that stat line is deceptive. The penalty is a very soft off the ball one that could have been levied against just about anyone in any huddle. As for the two sacks, here they are

https://x.com/i/web/status/1832851214326747214

https://x.com/i/web/status/1832867644082401767

First off, neither is a sack if Fields feels the pressure. He's on third down in Pittsburgh territory both times so I'm not going to attach too much blame for him opting for hero ball, but he has time to react and another QB would just throw it out of bounds there and avoid the sack, leaving both guys with a cleaner stat line. I'm being harsh on the first but not the second.

I also don't know how PFF calls pressures - are pressures all pressures, or just pressures that don't turn to sacks - but I'd assume if it's the first. If that's the case, those were his only two pressures allowed on the game. Which still ain't great but it's not horrible. Two pressures and two sacks would be really woof but I can't see that being the case given his grade.

Second, the actual sacks... I've changed my mind on that first one over the course of posting it. At first I was "that's Daniels' fault" but I'm guessing that the coach would be telling Jones he has to keep level with Daniels so that if Daniels gets double-teamed (as he was), a guy can't just slip behind Jones. But it's possible that isn't the call. In any case, it's not like Jones actually got beat there. He might have been in the wrong place, but someone didn't go against Jones and just beat him.

The second sack, yeah, he's beat. But if that's his only clean loss of the day with plenty of Grady Jarrett around... well, people will do worse.

I mean the fact I'm saying it wasn't that bad as if he was Spencer Anderson kind of says it all. But it wasn't that bad. Absolutely want more progress but that was head above water imo.

Yeah, in general, I don't think sacks allowed is going to be a good judgement of the O-line this year. Not with these 2 QB's.

So I heard Scotty Miller never held for kicks prior to Sunday.

I’m the biggest Mike Tomlin hater there is but after listening to Scotty Miller explain at practice Mike Tomlin noticed they needed a back up holder and asked if he could do it and he’s like sure I could do it. I feel like I gotta give Tom some props on that one.

I'm missing what praise Tomlin should be getting for this. Having a backup seems pretty standard. Should be at least 1 at every position.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

That’s what I was thinking. Put Washington there, haha.

Yep or Pruitt. No haha, totally serious.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Fwiw, the only American cop I've seen talk about their training made it sound like they got zero de-escalation training or similar.

Interesting how the 1% of 1% military members on special forces teams train 7-9 months out of the year and deploy for 3-5.

Meanwhile cops basically never train. Maybe they are required to do some courses a few weeks out of the year but big picture we are expecting them to play the game 24/7 with zero practice time. Especially for a job with such a broad scope- you need to be in shape, have people skills, street smarts, know the law. It’s not easy and yet there is more red tape and practice required to be an accountant.

You’ve also (like politics and teachers) made it very unattractive for quality candidates to join the police. Low pay, a lot of pressure and scrutiny, low barrier to entry and dangerous. Just feels like you’re driving away people who we would want to be police, politicians, teachers, etc over time.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Aligns with CPOE numbers and eyes - Fields was acceptably accurate.

 

[Pens1566]

Aligns with CPOE numbers and eyes - Fields was acceptably accurate.

No Kenny Pickett data ... huh, strange.

 

[Night Shift]

No Kenny Pickett data ... huh, strange.

Kenny Rogers shows up later after the party starts!

 

[WickedWrister]

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm not going to complain because Moore actually had a very good week 1, but I'm confused for how Tomlin sees Frazier's dominant performance and doesn't think "maybe I should be more aggressive in letting these young OL play sooner".

 

[Peat]

Interesting how the 1% of 1% military members on special forces teams train 7-9 months out of the year and deploy for 3-5.

Meanwhile cops basically never train. Maybe they are required to do some courses a few weeks out of the year but big picture we are expecting them to play the game 24/7 with zero practice time. Especially for a job with such a broad scope- you need to be in shape, have people skills, street smarts, know the law. It’s not easy and yet there is more red tape and practice required to be an accountant.

You’ve also (like politics and teachers) made it very unattractive for quality candidates to join the police. Low pay, a lot of pressure and scrutiny, low barrier to entry and dangerous. Just feels like you’re driving away people who we would want to be police, politicians, teachers, etc over time.

I got curious and did some searches on how much training US cops get. Lot of bristling from US cops about all the on the job training, courses, academy tests and what not they do. Some going "hell yeah we're not trained enough, please give me a proper training budget and time off to train and while we're about it a big enough salary to attract quality candidates". You're not wrong about it being unattractive. You've basically got to be a lunatic to agree to have your job performance so thoroughly scrutinised for so little money before we even get into the danger, unsociable hours, frequent pariah status, mental health timebomb and so on.

That all said, I suspect the main problem is the thrust of the training - and the underlying culture - than the amount of training. See this stat -

"US police academies spend far more time on firearms training than on de-escalating a situation - 71 hours against 21, on average, according to a 2013 US Bureau of Justice Statistics report."

Which fits with this article from Patrick Skinner (the guy who I read talking about his training), talking about how the police have tried to become this almost paramilitary unit (in some cases drop the almost) and how it's going wrong.

The thing is, I get why US police forces spend so much time focusing on personal safety and so on. It's undeniable that there's a non-negligible element of US society that's reckless and armed and that US police are, by and large, going to spend a lot of time around those people at their worst. I get the police wanting Hill out of the car if he's not going to keep his window up or co-operate. It's a tough sell to these guys that spending more time on their de-escalation and less time on tactical situations is going to keep them safer (even if I believe that to be true), particularly when they're going through mental health pressure cookers.

But I think that's the cultural argument that needs to be won. That's why Hill is on the ground in cuffs over pretty close to nothing. Not because the officers were undertrained, but because they're badly trained and encouraged to see the public as a dangerous enemy rather than their neighbours who need a hand.

 

[Peat]

I'm not going to complain because Moore actually had a very good week 1, but I'm confused for how Tomlin sees Frazier's dominant performance and doesn't think "maybe I should be more aggressive in letting these young OL play sooner".

Tbf, he's got plenty of recent examples of younger players giving him palpitations to reinforces his biases right now and it's not like there's a bunch of rookie performances like Frazier's. Kid looked instantly borderline elite, which maybe isn't a surprise given how much college experience he has.

I'm going to curb my enthusiasm over Frazier until we see how NFL coaches respond to him, and his lack of elite quickness and short arms, but dear gods is that boy going to cause problems for anyone he gets his hands on. A dude who can ragdoll Grady Jarrett on his debut is a dude indeed. Probably the best rookie debut I've seen in my time seriously following the Steelers.