OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Sneaking up onto training camp

[UnrealMachine]

I only watched the 2nd half but thought Fields looked good. I would start him next week.

The front 4 of Watt, Highsmith, Hayward and Ogunjobi/Benton won us the game. That and Boswell of course.

People don’t give Fields enough credit for the things he does well (dangerous runner who almost always gets 5 yards/rush, takes hits and gets yards after contact, cannon and accurate arm in deep throws). He also made conservative decisions regarding not making high risk throws and protecting the ball on the sacks. He missed a couple of throws on easy targets, so of course that was frustrating but hopefully correctable.

Secondary had a thing or two to say about the outcome of the game as well. Even Bennie Bishop managed to have a good game after that blown coverage on the line TD against.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

People don’t give Fields enough credit for the things he does well (dangerous runner who almost always gets 5 yards/rush, takes hits and gets yards after contact, cannon and accurate arm in deep throws). He also made conservative decisions regarding not making high risk throws and protecting the ball on the sacks. He missed a couple of throws on easy targets, so of course that was frustrating but hopefully correctable.

Secondary had a thing or two to say about the outcome of the game as well. Even Bennie Bishop managed to have a good game after that blown coverage on the line TD against.

Fields played like a solid backup on the road. They won a ton of games with Pickett throwing under 200 yards no tds

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

But every week there guys open over the mof when you watch the all 22. We have not had a nfl starting Qb since 2018
Against JF teams spy him and play zone to keep him from running

And I've said this to you a million times; just because there are players running open in the middle doesn't mean that route is the 1st or 2nd read. Our Qb's can't get to their 3rd read bc the Oline tends to not hold up that long.

Watch the Lions or 49ers. Many of those routes are #1 read slants or digs. Tomlin has his fingerprints on how the offense is designed and these MOF patterns are merely decoys. That's how Tomlin wants and likes it bc he wants to avoid turnovers.

 

[Shaftception]

Only watched a little bit of the game, but ... Fields looked just ok to me. His running is an extra dimension that we haven't had since early Ben years. Harris just looks meh. Lots of touches, not a lot of production. Maybe it's the O-line, maybe it's that he still has almost no vision. I have to think he's gone after this year.

Harris just doesn't have modern nfl speed, that's why he can't rack up high ypc and requires large volume to reach quality production.

Almost all backs are similar in their production outside of the true freaks like prime Henry, Chubb or McCaffrey who also plays in a perfect offensive system for his talents. Reliant on offensive scheme and quality of blocking to succeed. Hence why almost no backs are paid highly.

Backs who consistently produce high ypc for the most part do so thanks to the 3-5 runs per game that the playcall or line creates enough open space for them to gain 20+ yard bursts, otherwise they're just like most other backs in which they'll gain 3-5 yards depending on blocking. Even Henry who Harris was laughably compared to due to similar size largely runs for 3-5 yards per attempt, but has the x factor of if in the open field being capable of running for a 50+ yard TD because of his freakish speed for his size.

Harris simply can't take advantage of those 3-5 chances per game like other quicker backs can.

Just like in his best run yesterday, where Harris will run for like a 15 yard gain off a cutback up the middle while plowing through a few of the secondary before being gang tackled, other backs will simply outrun the secondary all together once through the hole or reach the edge and run down the sideline, gaining those 20-30+ yard chunk plays that is what actually pads ypc averages for runningbacks.

 

[DanielPlainview]

Fields looked bad you people need to pull your heads out of your asses. Stop thinking about his mobility and start focusing how inaccurate he is and how slow he is to react and how he obviously cannot read the defense. He’s a time bomb waiting for a 4-5 turnover day to happen. Hel how many bad snaps did he have? 3? Those will become fumbles. And it wasn’t a one off thing. He did it all preseason. The most fundamental parts of playing QB he can’t seem to do well.

 

[xlm34]

I’ll echo what a lot of others said about Fields and say I was surprised in a good way by how he played. I definitely wouldn’t say he was good or anything, but he played a really safe game which is not really something I thought he was capable of. And it was up in the air if he would he even start so I wonder how much of the game plan had to be reworked in 2 days once Wilson got hurt. I imagine they go back to Wilson but I’d keep the ball in Fields’ hands until he implodes. The passing performance was kind of what I expected from a Wilson led offense but Fields adds an extra element with his legs.

The defense certainly lived up to the hype. Ogunjobi deserves props for how he played. If he’s healthy and consistently plays like he did yesterday, that DL is going to be a disgusting unit.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

And I've said this to you a million times; just because there are players running open in the middle doesn't mean that route is the 1st or 2nd read. Our Qb's can't get to their 3rd read bc the Oline tends to not hold up that long.

Watch the Lions or 49ers. Many of those routes are #1 read slants or digs. Tomlin has his fingerprints on how the offense is designed and these MOF patterns are merely decoys. That's how Tomlin wants and likes it bc he wants to avoid turnovers.

The lions put brown in the slot. Both teams have a top 10 Qb not a backup. There is a reason they wanted Aiyuk you can’t cover him m2m and both purdy and goff throw guys open and with anticipation.
There’s a reason JF has 1 300 yard passing game in his entire career. Mason literally hit the mof often

https://x.com/i/web/status/1741616411255198061

 

[DanielPlainview]

Harris just doesn't have modern nfl speed, that's why he can't rack up high ypc and requires large volume to reach quality production.

Almost all backs are similar in their production outside of the true freaks like prime Henry, Chubb or McCaffrey who also plays in a perfect offensive system for his talents. Reliant on offensive scheme and quality of blocking to succeed. Hence why almost no backs are paid highly.

Backs who consistently produce high ypc for the most part do so thanks to the 3-5 runs per game that the playcall or line creates enough open space for them to gain 20+ yard bursts, otherwise they're just like most other backs in which they'll gain 3-5 yards depending on blocking. Even Henry who Harris was laughably compared to due to similar size largely runs for 3-5 yards per attempt, but has the x factor of if in the open field being capable of running for a 50+ yard TD because of his freakish speed for his size.

Harris simply can't take advantage of those 3-5 chances per game like other quicker backs can.

Just like in his best run yesterday, where Harris will run for like a 15 yard gain off a cutback up the middle while plowing through a few of the secondary before being gang tackled, other backs will simply outrun the secondary all together once through the hole or reach the edge and run down the sideline, gaining those 20-30+ yard chunk plays that is what actually pads ypc averages for runningbacks.

Harris is plenty fast enough. He doesn’t break many big runs because despite his size he can’t seem to break tackles in the second level. He gets to the lbs and goes down a bit too easy. For a guy who’s as close to Derrick Henry in size as anyone in the league he doesn’t run with anywhere near the same power and ferocity.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Harris just doesn't have modern nfl speed, that's why he can't rack up high ypc and requires large volume to reach quality production.

Almost all backs are similar in their production outside of the true freaks like prime Henry, Chubb or McCaffrey who also plays in a perfect offensive system for his talents. Reliant on offensive scheme and quality of blocking to succeed. Hence why almost no backs are paid highly.

Backs who consistently produce high ypc for the most part do so thanks to the 3-5 runs per game that the playcall or line creates enough open space for them to gain 20+ yard bursts, otherwise they're just like most other backs in which they'll gain 3-5 yards depending on blocking. Even Henry who Harris was laughably compared to due to similar size largely runs for 3-5 yards per attempt, but has the x factor of if in the open field being capable of running for a 50+ yard TD because of his freakish speed for his size.

Harris simply can't take advantage of those 3-5 chances per game like other quicker backs can.

Just like in his best run yesterday, where Harris will run for like a 15 yard gain off a cutback up the middle while plowing through a few of the secondary before being gang tackled, other backs will simply outrun the secondary all together once through the hole or reach the edge and run down the sideline, gaining those 20-30+ yard chunk plays that is what actually pads ypc averages for runningbacks.

Very well explained. Harris is in no way dynamic and our UDFA who got token carries yesterday replicated or exceeded his production last year.

Harris is probably a fair enough short yardage guy. He has value there. But any designed play to Harris is in effect wasting a down as you'll only net 3-4 yards each time.

 

[MrBrightside]

The lions put brown in the slot. Both teams have a top 10 Qb not a backup. There is a reason they wanted Aiyuk you can’t cover him m2m and both purdy and goff throw guys open and with anticipation.
There’s a reason JF has 1 300 yard passing game in his entire career. Mason literally hit the mof often

https://x.com/i/web/status/1741616411255198061

I don't think this chart supports your thesis.

Everyone is on brand this morning. KP superfan here trashing Fields. Tomlin superfan defending the game plan. It's like a Rorschach test and people see absolutely what they want to see.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

The lions put brown in the slot. Both teams have a top 10 Qb not a backup. There is a reason they wanted Aiyuk you can’t cover him m2m and both purdy and goff throw guys open and with anticipation.
There’s a reason JF has 1 300 yard passing game in his entire career. Mason literally hit the mof often

https://x.com/i/web/status/1741616411255198061

I see a whopping 3 passes that went MOF and none of them past 10 yards. Did you pull up the wrong game?

Note the use of OUTBREAKING routes in this summary.

 

[pistolpete11]

Can you please go into detail on the words and actions that Pickens has performed that could reasonably be interpreted as “diva”? I’m looking for things that would make him akin to someone like Deion Sanders, Terrell Owens, or of course the greatest diva of all-time in Tom Brady. If anything he’s maybe more like Chad Johnson - who ended up being pretty wrongly interpreted by most people.

Regarding immature, that’s in the eyes of the beholder. He’s a young black male athlete that can sometimes let the emotions get the best of him. What a tragic situation for us to endure.

Nah, I'm not going to do that. If you can't recognize the pattern by now, you are choosing not to and will just try to hand waive it away by saying he 'let his emotions get the best of him' or whatever.

I'm not even saying they should get rid of him, but it's something that needs to be managed and it should not surprise anybody if/when things boil over.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Nah, I'm not going to do that. If you can't recognize the pattern by now, you are choosing not to and will just try to hand waive it away by saying he 'let his emotions get the best of him' or whatever.

I'm not even saying they should get rid of him, but it's something that needs to be managed and it should not surprise anybody if/when things boil over.

Pickens plays on the line...kind of like Matt Cooke. If he's got the right teammates and supporting staff he can be managed to channel his emotions effectively. If I'm a CB facing Pickens, I try to mess with him early and try to goad him into penalties.

 

[MrBrightside]

Are people really disputing that Pickens, like many top NFL WR, has some behavior issues? He doesn't block ever - the video of him avoiding a block in the Colts game last year was viral. He clearly sulks when he doesn't get the ball as often as he'd like. He's not late-stage Antonio Brown or anything and he's probably not that different than most top 20 NFL WR, but the guy has some effort and entitlement issues he displays often. To be clear I'm not advocating doing anything with him, but I can't believe this is being questioned.

 

[Night Shift]

And the PR campaign in defense of Tomlin is full steam ahead..

@bigdaddyk88 goes Choo- chooooo!

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I don't think this chart supports your thesis.

Everyone is on brand this morning. KP superfan here trashing Fields. Tomlin superfan defending the game plan. It's like a Rorschach test and people see absolutely what they want to see.

Fields KP Mason Mitch are all back ups. We shouldn’t be comparing them top top 15 Qbs. They are 31st in wr spending and 32 in sb spending
Fields has 31 starts with 1 td or less. He has the same amount of 300 yard passing games as KP

Harris is plenty fast enough. He doesn’t break many big runs because despite his size he can’t seem to break tackles in the second level. He gets to the lbs and goes down a bit too easy. For a guy who’s as close to Derrick Henry in size as anyone in the league he doesn’t run with anywhere near the same power and ferocity.

He still was 4th in runs over 20 yards last season

 

[JTG]

Pickens is a #1 receiver in my eyes if he has a QB to get him the ball, which is why the Johnson trade and Aiyuk fall through wasn't that big of a deal to me. I do think we can find a #2, and we very well may have a #2 in house. Austin is staying because he's a really good return man, so they may as well continue to get something out of him. Wilson is hurt, but he could be that answer. Maybe Jefferson steps up?

Jackson was great yesterday. Elliot may be my favorite player on the defense right now. 4 tackles, 1 INT. He was noticeable. The secondary may not be...horrible *says with one eye closed*

I'm far from an expert - and who watches the line actively during games anyways - but they held up pretty damn well. Which is a bit unfortunate because I want Fautanu in there asap ha.

They did. And to think the line could be Jones-Seumalo-Frazier-Dotson-Fautanu.

The U Shaped offense has been here since about 2018. But sure, let's place blame at all the QB's and Coordinators. Must be great to have scapegoats lined up...

The curtain is falling on the true culprit. It's going to be great.

Only watched a little bit of the game, but ... Fields looked just ok to me. His running is an extra dimension that we haven't had since early Ben years. Harris just looks meh. Lots of touches, not a lot of production. Maybe it's the O-line, maybe it's that he still has almost no vision. I have to think he's gone after this year.

Harris looks like he runs in pudding. He does kind of have the "Jordan Staal Factor" where he is actually moving faster than he looks because of his size, but he's not a quick or elusive back. I thought Najee could be a Steven Jackson, but he just doesn't have the wiggle.

T.J. Watt: Official admitted he "messed up" offside penalty that negated "golden nugget" from film study

Watt's perfect jump at the snap was apparently a little too perfect.

www.nbcsports.com

I don't know what he did wrong. The head dropped and he went.

Harris is plenty fast enough. He doesn’t break many big runs because despite his size he can’t seem to break tackles in the second level. He gets to the lbs and goes down a bit too easy. For a guy who’s as close to Derrick Henry in size as anyone in the league he doesn’t run with anywhere near the same power and ferocity.

He has zero elusiveness. His only move is to run through. It's why the hurdle is his move. He only goes through or over top.

A RB like Saquon would have sent this offense into orbit. They need a true multi-dimensional player back there if this is how the offense is going to be. The guy needs to be a serious threat in both aspects of the game.

 

[UnrealMachine]

Nah, I'm not going to do that. If you can't recognize the pattern by now, you are choosing not to and will just try to hand waive it away by saying he 'let his emotions get the best of him' or whatever.

I'm not even saying they should get rid of him, but it's something that needs to be managed and it should not surprise anybody if/when things boil over.

No answer is also an answer in and of itself.

 

[MrBrightside]

Fields KP Mason Mitch are all back ups. We shouldn’t be comparing them top top 15 Qbs. They are 31st in wr spending and 32 in sb spending
Fields has 31 starts with 1 td or less. He has the same amount of 300 yard passing games as KP

And that's probably true but don't keep moving the goalposts. You argued that Rudolph threw over the middle of the field and put up a graphic that indicated that he really did not.

 

[Night Shift]

Fight Fight fight!

 

[UnrealMachine]

Are people really disputing that Pickens, like many top NFL WR, has some behavior issues? He doesn't block ever - the video of him avoiding a block in the Colts game last year was viral. He clearly sulks when he doesn't get the ball as often as he'd like. He's not late-stage Antonio Brown or anything and he's probably not that different than most top 20 NFL WR, but the guy has some effort and entitlement issues he displays often. To be clear I'm not advocating doing anything with him, but I can't believe this is being questioned.

Hyperbole and then comparing/contrasting against the most basket case receiver of this era is truly the real way to approach this. Thanks.

 

[MrBrightside]

Hyperbole and then comparing/contrasting against the most basket case receiver of this era is truly the real way to approach this. Thanks.

So is distorting my argument and dismissing anything that is stated contrary to your opinion as irrelevant just because is the correct approach, I take it. Ok.

 

[xlm34]

Assuming Purdy and Rodgers both finish higher in success rate and EPA, this is about where I expect whoever the QB is to hover all year.

 

[Andy99]

Assuming Purdy and Rodgers both finish higher in success rate and EPA, this is about where I expect whoever the QB is to hover all year.

Hey, we don’t live in our fears (but we really do)…

 

[Ryder71]

Hey, we don’t live in our fears (but we really do)…

Kinda ironic, Tomlin does live in his fears and the most opportune time to actually do so was that 4th and 1 they didn't convert! They could have gone up by 8 then when their defense was all over Cousins. THAT would have indeed been the time to approach that circumstance conservatively. Tomlin is tone deaf. His clock management and feel for the game is almost non existent. But the players love him!