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OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Post Draft - Still dont need no QB

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You already pointed it out, the trenches. Offense starts first a foremost in the trenches. The Jets O-line was bottom half of the league last season (largely due to injuries, but the point stands). This is especially important when you have a QB that's not as mobile. Even under pressure, Rodgers had a better TD:Int ratio than MR (granted, it was the Titans). The Steelers O-line is an upgrade, he just needs a slot receiver now (unless you really think CAIII can step up that much over last year).

Edit: Isn't Amari Cooper still available? Not sure why the Steelers haven't jumped on that.

The AR I saw last year (not all games mind you) he was missing receivers even when he did have time.

What is your barometer for a successful AR stint this year?

PS- CA3 is a capable slot player, but they barely utilize him/MOF. The Steelers need a physical boundary WR to play opposite DK. That's the big hole on offense right now.
 
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The AR I saw last year (not all games mind you) he was missing receivers even when he did have time.

What is your barometer for a successful AR stint this year?

PS- CA3 is a capable slot player, but they barely utilize him/MOF. The Steelers need a physical boundary WR to play opposite DK. That's the big hole on offense right now.
Not opening up a MyPillow shop on North Shore Dr.

In all seriousness, that's a difficult question. I guess it depends how much offensive input and control Tomlin allows him to have.
 
Outside of his attendance at the recent Trump rally, what else has he been involved in?

The main thing I recall was a deep dive into his history of liking/following some really abhorrent twitter users/posts. Mostly involving racial issues. Specifically, Tomi Lahren.

But again, politics. You're free to disagree.
 
Re the idea that the Steelers OL is an upgrade from the Jets OL



Not a total consensus, but good reason to think last season's Jets unit was better than the Steelers and that even with improvement projected for the Steelers this year, they probably won't be a huge deal better than the Jets were last year.

edit: And Pro Football Reference's advanced passer stats show Rodgers getting below average pressure while having average time in the pocket. Wilson is 2nd for pressure % there.
 
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Good article today from The Athletic: NHL's top power play big reason Avs are tied for top spot in Western Conference ... -concerns/

It feels like we just watched Aaron Rodgers on a weird, man-on-the-streets version of a reality TV dating show, one in which our dapper dude begrudgingly committed to someone after a far more arduous saga than anyone ever imagined.

Sent packing by his original partner, he pursued the most desirable alternative he could find. But she already had a man, and after a brief consideration said, “Thanks but no thanks.” He conducted a drawn-out dance with two other contestants, only for one to drop out.

Resigned to the belief that a third-best option was better than no option at all, our bachelor talked himself into awarding the rose to the only partner left standing. Together, they awkwardly begin their new union, ignoring the signs that suggest this won’t end well.

That’s basically what happened between Rodgers and the Pittsburgh Steelers on Thursday. Some 85 days after the revamping New York Jets released him, after the Minnesota Vikings pledged loyalty to second-year pro J.J. McCarthy, and after the New York Giants signed Jameis Winston and Russell Wilson in free agency and drafted Jaxson Dart for good measure, Rodgers is officially a Steeler.

Contingency plan Mason Rudolph led the Steelers’ first-team offense through its sixth and final voluntary offseason practice session. But the plan now calls for Rodgers to fly to Pittsburgh, where on Tuesday he’ll take the field for his new team’s three-day mandatory minicamp, catch his breath for six weeks and then report for training camp No. 21 and begin his quest for one last shot at football glory.

Their patience — or desperation — rewarded, the Steelers got their guy. They’re rolling the dice on yet another long-in-the-tooth quarterback, viewing him as better suited to lead their roster into battle than any journeyman, project quarterback or unproven rookie. This is a buyer-beware situation, however.
The Steelers signed a sure-fire Hall of Famer with a Super Bowl ring, four MVPs and 10 Pro Bowl selections on his resume. But Rodgers, who turns 42 in December, is a shell of himself. Coach Mike Tomlin and general manager Omar Khan envision Rodgers replicating what Tom Brady did with Tampa Bay and leading the Steelers on a storybook championship march. But Rodgers is no Brady — who was a robot of a professional, even at 43, with no agenda beyond winning — and this Steelers roster is not on par with those 2020 Buccaneers.

To be clear, Rodgers is better than any other quarterback the Steelers have on their roster. Rudolph, on his second stint with the team, is 9-8-1 with 28 touchdowns, 20 interceptions and 13 fumbles in five seasons. Skylar Thompson has three starts and 10 total appearances to his name, with just one touchdown pass and three interceptions. Sixth-round rookie Will Howard is a project quarterback.
So, Rodgers, who has seen every blitz package and coverage scheme known to man, will prove more proficient in directing a Steelers offense that this offseason swapped out wide receiver George Pickens for DK Metcalf and replaced running back Najee Harris with third-round pick Kaleb Johnson.

But this is the same Rodgers who is coming off the most disappointing showing of his career after struggling to effectively direct a Jets offense that featured Pro Bowl-caliber wide receivers Davante Adams and Garrett Wilson and potent running back Breece Hall.

Pittsburgh does have a consistently reliable defense. But will Rodgers fare much better with the Steelers, who have fielded pedestrian offenses for years? It’s not like team officials made dramatic upgrades to that side of the ball.

Metcalf, for whom the Steelers traded before awarding him a $132 million contract, may have Pickens beat in the maturity department. But statistically, the differences are negligible. And that raises the question of why, if Pittsburgh was so intent on this Rodgers fling, it didn’t hang onto Pickens for one more season to ensure this over-the-hill legend at least had a dynamic receiver tandem with which to work.

Just as Metcalf may not be a legit upgrade over Pickens, Rodgers might not be any better than Russell Wilson.

Compare the aging former NFC rivals’ last three seasons. The numbers are eerily similar. Rodgers completed 63.7 percent of his passes; Wilson 63.4 percent. Rodgers had 54 touchdown passes and 23 interceptions. Wilson had 58 touchdown passes and 24 interceptions. Rodgers went 14-21; Wilson 17-24.

But an eight-year playoff win drought and a refusal to do what it takes to acquire a top-flight rookie quarterback and endure the development stages have clouded the Steelers’ judgment.

Did they forget that Father Time remains undefeated? Sure, Brady and Peyton Manning managed to deliver Super Bowls to new teams as the sun set on their careers. But those occurrences are rare. Just ask Joe Montana and the Chiefs, Joe Namath and the Rams, Johnny Unitas and the Chargers, Warren Moon and the Vikings and Seahawks and Cam Newton and the Patriots.

Eventually, the magic fades.

But it’s not the physical decline that should concern the Steelers the most. A team that prides itself on professionalism and discipline, led by the ultimate culture guy in Tomlin, needs only to examine Rodgers’ off-field behavior the last three years to realize this is not an ideal fit.

Tomlin always preaches, “The standard is the standard. We’re going to do things the Steeler way.” He’s all about accountability and team above self — yet he hitched himself to a quarterback notorious for finger-pointing when things go south.

Did Pittsburgh forget how Rodgers’ time in Green Bay ended? Unhappy with the way team president Mark Murphy and general manager Brian Gutekunst were running the team and his lack of input, Rodgers was publicly critical of both and wanted Gutekunst fired. Fatigued by his antics and growing non-football interests, the Packers moved on with Rodgers in the dark.

Did the Steelers forget how Rodgers criticized the dysfunctional ways of the Jets organization, eventually leading to head coach Robert Saleh and general manager Joe Douglas getting fired?

Rather than accept accountability for New York’s shortcomings during last year’s 5-12 debacle, Rodgers regularly used his buddy Pat McAfee’s show as a platform to call out teammates and Jets leadership.

What You Should Read Next
Aaron Rodgers, Robert Saleh and how the Jets’ season fell apart: ‘Something has to change’
Aaron Rodgers, Robert Saleh and how the Jets’ season fell apart: ‘Something has to change’
Thirty sources in and around the Jets described a team riddled with excuse-making and an organizational tunnel vision on its star QB.
Pittsburgh officials are guilty of arrogance, viewing themselves as a far superior franchise to the Jets and immune to such a debacle. Perhaps they see more similarities to Green Bay and believe Rodgers will embrace a return to structure and simply play his role.

But that would require Rodgers to possess a keen focus and unquenchable thirst for winning at all costs and the humility necessary to adapt and alter his approach.

If Tomlin thinks he’s getting a laser-focused Rodgers who’s all about sacrificing for the greater good, he should think again. Sure, Rodgers may have expressed respect during this drawn-out courtship, which seemingly even included Tomlin cutting a deal that let the quarterback skip all but three days of the offseason program. But as he welcomes Rodgers aboard, Tomlin is putting himself and the franchise at great risk.

League insiders have long regarded Tomlin as a strong leader of men with a knack for managing complicated personalities and getting his charges to exceed expectations and overcome adversity. He draws praise for having never experienced a losing season in 18 years as head coach. However, he’ll have to use every management and relationship-massaging trick he’s got to prevent Rodgers from taking a stick of dynamite to the Steelers’ near pristine culture if things play out poorly.

Critics have long said that while Tomlin’s avoidance of losing records is remarkable, his unwillingness to evolve in the areas of team operations, staff construction and talent evaluation actually holds the Steelers back. If losses mount and Rodgers makes the same observations about an antiquated approach, he’ll certainly pull back the curtain on this boss, as he has on others, and subject a proud franchise to embarrassment.

Speaking of relationships, one of the most important ones will be that of the quarterback and offensive coordinator Arthur Smith.
Many league insiders believe that to avoid a combustible situation, Tomlin will give Rodgers freedom to operate as he pleases. It will take work for Smith to align his conservative, run-first philosophies with those of Rodgers, who still views himself as a gunslinger.

The two have never worked together. Smith worked under Matt LaFleur, Rodgers’ head coach in Green Bay, when LaFleur was the offensive coordinator in Tennessee. And Steelers quarterbacks coach Tom Arth had a brief stint as an offseason teammate of Rodgers’ in 2006. But there are no pre-existing ties to ensure this thing remains on track.

Blending existing concepts with those of a veteran quarterback isn’t easy. Just ask Bruce Arians and Byron Leftwich, who spent half of the 2020 season trying to do so for Brady before finding the perfect mix late in that season. And that was while working with the laser-focused Brady and not a quarterback like Rodgers with meandering interests and a strong sense of entitlement.

Ideally, Smith would have had all offseason to cultivate a relationship with his quarterback and integrate his favorite concepts and plays into the Steelers’ playbook. The two could have experimented, massaged and tweaked throughout the offseason. But instead, they will receive one three-day on-field stretch together before reconvening for training camp.

How will Rodgers respond if the offense sputters, should he and Smith clash? Will he eventually go rogue and get into on-field trouble while overestimating his declining physical gifts?

And then there’s chemistry with teammates. Unlike the Jets’ experiment, Pittsburgh isn’t going out to get as many hand-picked former Packers for Rodgers. Instead, he will have to start from scratch on Tuesday and continue throughout training camp. And even then, will it be enough? If he threw Jets teammates he’d known for nearly two years under the bus, what will he do to Pittsburgh players he hardly knows? Will Tomlin and Steelers owner Dan Rooney be able to stomach weekly outlandish comments from their quarterback on McAfee’s show?

Pittsburgh’s desperation for a deep playoff run is real — so real it feels like the usually conservative Tomlin and Steelers were willing to ignore a dozen red flags, including that they were nowhere close to his first choice.

But maybe things will not go as disastrously as they could.

Maybe Rodgers will change his stripes and be the model teammate and ultimate professional — a big maybe. He doesn’t make the Steelers better than the AFC North rival Baltimore Ravens. He might not even have the capability to carry Pittsburgh past Joe Burrow and the Cincinnati Bengals. We won’t even talk about the Kansas City Chiefs.

So, is this soul-selling dance worth it?

There’s no Super Bowl run left in this version of Aaron Rodgers.

If we’re being honest, the best realistic scenario involves this experiment going woefully wrong, and at last, the Steelers find themselves in position to draft a top-flight quarterback. At worst, Rodgers and the Steelers labor through another season and finish a tick above .500 — as is customary — only to remain stuck in football purgatory with no clear path out.
 

Florio, but still interesting.

"Put me down for this," Florio said. "I fully expect, sooner than later, and no later than training camp, the Steelers will trade for Jets’ receiver Allen Lazard. Been waiting for that to happen… They’ve been waiting to know what Rodgers is going to do. And Lazard, I think, is the perfect complement… The question becomes, what do the Jets want?"
 
The main thing I recall was a deep dive into his history of liking/following some really abhorrent twitter users/posts. Mostly involving racial issues. Specifically, Tomi Lahren.

But again, politics. You're free to disagree.

Hadn't heard about any of this. I'll do some digging.
 
Re the idea that the Steelers OL is an upgrade from the Jets OL



Not a total consensus, but good reason to think last season's Jets unit was better than the Steelers and that even with improvement projected for the Steelers this year, they probably won't be a huge deal better than the Jets were last year.

edit: And Pro Football Reference's advanced passer stats show Rodgers getting below average pressure while having average time in the pocket. Wilson is 2nd for pressure % there.

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You already pointed it out, the trenches. Offense starts first a foremost in the trenches. The Jets O-line was bottom half of the league last season (largely due to injuries, but the point stands). This is especially important when you have a QB that's not as mobile. Even under pressure, Rodgers had a better TD:Int ratio than MR (granted, it was the Titans). The Steelers O-line is an upgrade, he just needs a slot receiver now (unless you really think CAIII can step up that much over last year).

Edit: Isn't Amari Cooper still available? Not sure why the Steelers haven't jumped on that.

25) Pittsburgh Steelers​


Regular-Season Grade: 66.5 (D)


The Pittsburgh Steelers’ OL struggled this season with pass blocking, evidenced by a 38.6% pressure rate allowed in the regular season (29th in the NFL). The unit struggled regardless of whether it was facing the blitz (9.8% sack rate, 22nd) or just four or fewer defenders (38.1% pressure rate, 31st; 8.7% sack rate, 31st). This despite the offense having the ninth-longest time to throw this season.


The run game was also an issue. The Steelers averaged just 0.70 RBYPC/rush (28th) in the regular season, which made it hard to achieve any consistency on the ground. They were 18th in RBWR, but that still results in a well-below-average rushing group.



26) New York Jets​


Regular-Season Grade: 64.0 (D)


The New York Jets had an interesting season. The offensive line started with a couple of really poor performances, but after Week 6, they didn’t have a game graded below a C-, with three games graded as a B-. Over the last four weeks, they finished 14th, showing they were continuing to trend up as the season progressed.
 

Florio, but still interesting.

I don't mind acquiring talent at a reasonable cost.
What I do mind is the tail wagging the dog when it comes to this sort of shit and AR driving his agenda. If anything, the Jets are going to jack up the cost of him knowing the Steelers want him badly to appease AR.
 
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I'd also add that many of these "ranking" methodologies never incorporate strength-of-schedule, which the Steelers are usually at the top. Steelers were ranked #3 last season for most difficult schedule, whereas the Jets were Tied for 14th.
 
Show me where I stated that was my position?

My focus has been on these 2 allegations against Ben. And those allegations are paperthin because of...for the zillionth time NO HARD EVIDENCE. The rape kit performed in GA was inconclusive due to lack of genetic material. I also find it disturbing that because of these allegations (that have proven to have no merit), someone believes Ben has committed hundreds of other SA's. It's hyperbolic at best and exhibits lack of critical thinking at worst.

But back to this- it's sad (not strong enough of a word) that SA's are committed. The true victims have to overcome a ton of hurdles: police, stigma, DA's, the list goes on in order to achieve justice. Even if they "win" they are still scarred for life. A horrible burden to carry for something you didn't do or ask for.

The Jussie Smollet's of this world deserve the harshest repercussions because they diminish the pain of actual victims.

In short, I know women extort athletes for things they didn't do. I also know that athletes commit crimes they get away with. I'm not onboard with continuing a false narrative that isn't supported by evidence/facts. I would assume most people take the same approach, but when you repeat a lie enough people start to believe it.
You hadn't stated it was not, so I gave you the opportunity. The moment you said "women use sexual assault allegations to extort rich men" you stepped beyond the BR-specific allegations you claim to have been specific about. At least in my reading - how you may have intended it notwithstanding. So I felt it was of value to find out.

Also, the post stands as a general comment. Indeed, I did not quote you, so I'm comfortable with the statement as it is.
 
I don't mind acquiring talent at a reasonable cost.
What I do mind is the tail wagging the dog when it comes to this sort of shit and AR driving his agenda. If anything, the Jets are going to jack up the cost of him knowing the Steelers want him badly to appease AR.

Think is, getting players your veteran QB knows well and has worked with before is just smart, right? Rodgers succeeds because he's smart, smart doesn't get you far if the other guy isn't.

But if we are worried about Rodgers' ego causing problems, going and getting his guys helps feed it.

Btw - re the accuracy thing you brought up earlier - Derrick Bell touches on that in this article, both eye test and stats - What Would Aaron Rodgers Bring to Steelers?


Ah, thank you for the link, much easier to understand with it all in context.

It looks to me like the first section is composite, the second with the blue headings is pass protection, and the third with the red is run blocking, and the very last is a composite score.

And the ranking for the pass protection section is out of order, but if you look for the numbers, the Jets were 13th and the Steelers 18th.

As such, I think this confirms the numbers I posted from Baldwin that the Jets had a better pass protection unit than the Steelers last year.
 
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It looks to me like the first section is composite, the second with the blue headings is pass protection, and the third with the red is run blocking, and the very last is a composite score.

And the ranking for the pass protection section is out of order, but if you look for the numbers, the Jets were 13th and the Steelers 18th.

As such, I think this confirms the numbers I posted from Baldwin that the Jets had a better pass protection unit than the Steelers last year.
Potentially. It depends how much stock you give into splitting pass and run protection numbers (vs just overall - which the Steelers come out on top). I personally prefer overall, since splitting between these numbers can come down to the general scheme of the offense, ability to disguise, and frequency of RPO's.

One concern I do have is that I've seen a lot of Steelers fans criticize Tomlin for not disguising his plays effectively. Given Rodgers' history of excelling with RPOs, since he has an exceptional ability to read defenses, this could be an area of vulnerability. Guess we'll find out how it plays out.
 
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Think is, getting players your veteran QB knows well and has worked with before is just smart, right? Rodgers succeeds because he's smart, smart doesn't get you far if the other guy isn't.

But if we are worried about Rodgers' ego causing problems, going and getting his guys helps feed it.

I think it's silly to not look at what the Jets did to acquiesce AR and at a significant cost to their draft capital. And what did getting his guys do last year? A mediocre year and a bad W/L record for the guy to not be here long term.

If AR was younger and we'd expect to see him in a Steelers uniform for a couple more years, I could swallow this. But we all just extolled the FO for keeping their draft picks and not putting band aids on 2025. I'm not going to be happy if they blow their savings on AR's whims.

Who knows if this will even come to pass.
 
Potentially. It depends how much stock you give into splitting pass and run protection numbers (vs just overall - which the Steelers come out on top). A personally prefer overall, since splitting between these numbers can come down to the general scheme of the offense, ability to disguise, and frequency of RPO's.

One concern I do have is that I've seen a lot of Steelers fans criticize Tomlin for not disguising his plays effectively. Given Rodgers' history of excelling with RPOs, since he has an exceptional ability to read defenses, this could be an area of vulnerability. Guess we'll find out how it plays out.

In terms of measuring the situation the QB is in, I prefer to split them because the why of whether he gets good protection or not matters a lot less than just getting it. For measuring OL's actual performance and talent I get it, but just in terms of whether the QB is under pressure or not, I prefer to boil it down to just the pass protection.
 
Here's the kicker- we don't have a great defense. It's really good, but great defenses don't give up a gazillion points in their last 8 (or whatever #) playoff appearances. They are a paper tiger who have a couple outstanding individual performers.
They have the potential to be a great defense, assuming Watt is still here and healthy.
 
Show me where I stated that was my position?

My focus has been on these 2 allegations against Ben. And those allegations are paperthin because of...for the zillionth time NO HARD EVIDENCE. The rape kit performed in GA was inconclusive due to lack of genetic material. I also find it disturbing that because of these allegations (that have proven to have no merit), someone believes Ben has committed hundreds of other SA's. It's hyperbolic at best and exhibits lack of critical thinking at worst.

But back to this- it's sad (not strong enough of a word) that SA's are committed. The true victims have to overcome a ton of hurdles: police, stigma, DA's, the list goes on in order to achieve justice. Even if they "win" they are still scarred for life. A horrible burden to carry for something you didn't do or ask for.

The Jussie Smollet's of this world deserve the harshest repercussions because they diminish the pain of actual victims.

In short, I know women extort athletes for things they didn't do. I also know that athletes commit crimes they get away with. I'm not onboard with continuing a false narrative that isn't supported by evidence/facts. I would assume most people take the same approach, but when you repeat a lie enough people start to believe it.
Big Ben is a fat piece of shit rapist and he always will be. And as luck would have it, Aaron is also someone that likes to abuse women like Danica Patrick. And let’s not forget Cam Sutton. Pittsburgh sports mate, they love their women abusers. Remember when Mario Lemieux thought a statutory rapist would be a feel good story? Same same bud.

Thing about Ben was that he was basically begging a porn star to go sleep with him that’s pretty pathetic and that’s the kind of person he is pretending to be some family guy to people but then behind closed doors is just a sick f*** like the rest of them.
 
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