OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Post Draft - Still dont need no QB

[T1K]

But I don’t believe that they really want to pay the draft capital for an elite skill player.

Yeah I suspect any convos involving Jonnu were low ball offers. They’ll cave and end up signing Keenan Allen or someone like that probably.

 

[Peat]

How many times have two TEs been WR2 and WR3 on a team? Obviously Pitts and Jonnu under Arthur Smith, each getting like 600 yards on a pretty mediocre offense. Was that because that was a great way to design an offense, or because their QB sucked ass and Pitts was underwhelming?

In Baltimore Likely and Andrews both involved, but Bateman was their WR2 and that running game is insane. Plus I bet Andrews starts to fade, he had a bumpy year and is getting older.

Honestly I'd rather get the WR they need and if you want to throw more to TEs there's more meat on the Muth and Washington bone in my opinion.

I don't really have a lot of argument with that and wish they'd be more WR centric. However, I still like Smith as a fit for what they're trying to do and think the TE room isn't as well suited to it as some people think. Not that I'm necessarily even interested in paying an asset for him as a 30 year old with one year left on a contract he wants changed.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Arthur Smith is stuck in 1955. Might as well bring back Elbie Nickel.

You spelled Tomlin wrong.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Yeah I suspect any convos involving Jonnu were low ball offers. They’ll cave and end up signing Keenan Allen or someone like that probably.

Allen can’t play on the outside anymore and has said if he plays next season it’s in Chicago or back in a charger uniform
Smith I would not give up more than a 5th for since he is going to be 30 and wants a new extension

 

[bigdaddyk88]

You spelled Tomlin wrong.

Tomlin wants nothing to do with the offense it’s Smith show 100 percent.

 

[Pens x]

It seems to me like they’ll take any “elite” skill player they can get. Jonnu’s connection with Art certainly helps, but I wouldn’t expect them to be in the mix for other TEs. It’s pretty crazy to me that they traded Pickens with no plan, but obviously other factors were at play there.

They traded Diontae Johnson without a plan to replace him. It is kind of Khan/Tomlin’s new strategy - have no actual plan.

 

[nsvoyageurs]

You spelled Tomlin wrong.

I fixed that.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Tomlin wants nothing to do with the offense it’s Smith show 100 percent.

Not correct in my opinion.
Tomlin loves the offense and philosophy of A Smith = ball control, ground and pound, low risk, TOP.

I don't care for this strategy but you can at least say there's a marriage of ideals with this partnership. And Smith is a bona fide OC.

The last handful of OC's Tomlin picked had no business to be in that position.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Khan has to get Howard another weapon

 

[T1K]

Allen can’t play on the outside anymore and has said if he plays next season it’s in Chicago or back in a charger uniform
Smith I would not give up more than a 5th for since he is going to be 30 and wants a new extension

Idk, I think he could end up with us or the Jets and have a much bigger role than either of those 2 teams. The Bears and Chargers both drafted WRs in the 2nd round.

 

[Pens x]

Khan has to get Howard another weapon

Get him a clipboard

 

[pistolpete11]

How many times have two TEs been WR2 and WR3 on a team? Obviously Pitts and Jonnu under Arthur Smith, each getting like 600 yards on a pretty mediocre offense. Was that because that was a great way to design an offense, or because their QB sucked ass and Pitts was underwhelming?

In Baltimore Likely and Andrews both involved, but Bateman was their WR2 and that running game is insane. Plus I bet Andrews starts to fade, he had a bumpy year and is getting older.

Honestly I'd rather get the WR they need and if you want to throw more to TEs there's more meat on the Muth and Washington bone in my opinion.

I'd guess the Pats with Gronk and Hernandez would be the most successful example (although I don't know for sure they meet the criteria).

I don't hate the idea of bringing in another TE like Smith TBH. I know people on this board hate the idea of bully ball, but having a bunch of big bodies that are capable of blocking and receiving could cause matchup issues.

My problem is that he is 30 years old and coming off an outlier of a good season. Not sure it's repeatable and repeatable when we will actually care about it to give up draft capitol.

 

[xlm34]

I'd guess the Pats with Gronk and Hernandez would be the most successful example (although I don't know for sure they meet the criteria).

I don't hate the idea of bringing in another TE like Smith TBH. I know people on this board hate the idea of bully ball, but having a bunch of big bodies that are capable of blocking and receiving could cause matchup issues.

My problem is that he is 30 years old and coming off an outlier of a good season. Not sure it's repeatable and repeatable when we will actually care about it to give up draft capitol.

Yeah the Pats are definitely the best example. It was either Gronk or Brady that talked about it but two tight end sets are a nightmare if you have the right tight ends. If the defense goes small, you just keep the tight ends on the line and bully them. If the defense goes big to stop that, you flex out your tight ends and create a mismatch.

I think the problem is neither Smith nor Freiermuth are good at blocking and Washington isn’t really an effective route runner.

 

[pistolpete11]

Yeah the Pats are definitely the best example. It was either Gronk or Brady that talked about it but two tight end sets are a nightmare if you have the right tight ends. If the defense goes small, you just keep the tight ends on the line and bully them. If the defense goes big to stop that, you flex out your tight ends and create a mismatch.

I think the problem is neither Smith nor Freiermuth are good at blocking and Washington isn’t really an effective route runner.

Freirmuth has taken strides blocking IMO. I wouldn't call him a good blocker, but to what you are saying, if you put a slot corner on him, he can handle them. Put a LB on him and he can beat them in the passing game.

Smith, no idea. Thought somebody said he was a decent blocker.

Washington, I agree. I've kinda lost faith in him ever being a receiving threat which is why I don't hate the idea of another TE.

 

[Peat]

Yeah, I thought Smith was a decent blocker. If he isn't, I'm less interested.

And leaving aside that since the team wants to be a bully they might as well be an effective bully, I think you can see that the modern bullyball teams are doing great... but they do it by being pretty great all around and forcing teams to pick a poison, and this team is pretty mediocre all around on the offensive side of the ball.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Idk, I think he could end up with us or the Jets and have a much bigger role than either of those 2 teams. The Bears and Chargers both drafted WRs in the 2nd round.

And the Jets drafted a wr in round 3. Allen is 33 he might not want to play just to play. Maybe the Steelers trade for Johnson from the chargers and he signs with the chargers to retire after the season

 

[T1K]

And the Jets drafted a wr in round 3. Allen is 33 he might not want to play just to play. Maybe the Steelers trade for Johnson from the chargers and he signs with the chargers to retire after the season

The Jets drafted a developmental WR in the 4th round, not the 3rd. Keenan would surely play over him if he signed there.

 

[xlm34]

Yeah, I thought Smith was a decent blocker. If he isn't, I'm less interested.

And leaving aside that since the team wants to be a bully they might as well be an effective bully, I think you can see that the modern bullyball teams are doing great... but they do it by being pretty great all around and forcing teams to pick a poison, and this team is pretty mediocre all around on the offensive side of the ball.

Quick look shows me this as far Smith and blocking where his tight ends coach says he needs some improvement there:

What's The Next Step for Jonnu Smith?

Miami Dolphins tight end Jonnu Smith had a historic first season in South Florida, but there’s still room for him to develop. Smith set the franchise record fo

www.si.com

Maybe there’s stuff out there saying otherwise, but I always thought he was more of gadgety/receiving tight end than a traditional all around guy.

 

[Peat]

Quick look shows me this as far Smith and blocking where his tight ends coach says he needs some improvement there:

What's The Next Step for Jonnu Smith?

Miami Dolphins tight end Jonnu Smith had a historic first season in South Florida, but there’s still room for him to develop. Smith set the franchise record fo

www.si.com

Maybe there’s stuff out there saying otherwise, but I always thought he was more of gadgety/receiving tight end than a traditional all around guy.

Cheers for the info.

Gotta say, seems like it's real real hard to find a traditional all around guy these days.

 

[Booker T]

Khan has to get Howard another weapon

That weapon? 1 slightly used Aaron Rodgers for a year.

 

[pistolpete11]

Yeah, I thought Smith was a decent blocker. If he isn't, I'm less interested.

And leaving aside that since the team wants to be a bully they might as well be an effective bully, I think you can see that the modern bullyball teams are doing great... but they do it by being pretty great all around and forcing teams to pick a poison, and this team is pretty mediocre all around on the offensive side of the ball.

Yeah, I don't have a problem with them playing bully ball, in theory. I think people are tired of it because it hasn't worked for this team in a long time, but I'd argue they just haven't had the right personnel for it. Starting first and foremost with the O-line, but poor QB play, a plodding RB with terrible vision, and WR who are unwilling to block also have played big roles. And even though I'm a fan of Muth, not sure he's been the best fit either.

 

[WickedWrister]

Is there anything to suggest he's even a mediocre route runner though?

The reality is unless any of us has been watching a ton of Washington tape without telling the others, none of us knows. It's not like there's a ton of tape and data to make it obvious, there's just very sparse usage on the field, both in college and in the NFL. I imagine anyone going to Steelers training has a far, far better idea - but that's none of us. None of us know how he looks there, or how hard the Steelers have tried to develop him there.

What I do know is there's not a whole lot of proof for his athletic gifts extending to change of direction, which is the athletic gift I'd tie most to route running. He didn't do the three cone drill at the combine which is probably the most telling for CoD, and that was when he was at 264, not the 300-odd he's meant to be.

And that in general, the best route runners in the NFL are frequently not all that athletic, and that it's far more of a technical art than one of raw athleticism anyway.

He's also playing for one of the most TE-centric OCs in the league. Smith's offences were in the top 5 for the percentage of passes thrown at TEs for 4 years prior to this year, where they were merely 8th. If Arthur Smith doesn't want to throw at a TE, I think it's really likely there's a good reason for it.

Yeah I think this is spot on. I'm being overly simplistic, but I just feel like he's just too damn big to ever become a legitimate receiving threat. I just don't see the agility or suddenness to create separation against defenders, even slower linebackers. There's just bio mechanical realities when you're 6'7" pushing 300 lbs. Stereotyping but he's in the mold of like a Donald Parham or Jelani Woods. Maybe a little more juice than a Zach Gentry, but not a real difference maker.

Legitimately the only guy at his size that I can think of being a weapon in the passing game is Jimmy Graham, and I hate to use this phrase, but he's just "built different".

 

[Snooki Stackhouse]

If they do aquire Smith (or Kmet could be another option if he asks out) I think they should think about converting Washington to tackle. He's a good blocker and wouldn't need to put on a ton of weight.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I'd guess the Pats with Gronk and Hernandez would be the most successful example (although I don't know for sure they meet the criteria).

I don't hate the idea of bringing in another TE like Smith TBH. I know people on this board hate the idea of bully ball, but having a bunch of big bodies that are capable of blocking and receiving could cause matchup issues.

My problem is that he is 30 years old and coming off an outlier of a good season. Not sure it's repeatable and repeatable when we will actually care about it to give up draft capitol.

That's the head-scratcher in all of this. Most of the moves this offseason were "let's not take 2025 seriously since we don't have a QB. We'll accumulate all these draft picks so we have ammo to move up and down the board next draft"

Well I have no idea what he'll cost, but we've now got a couple rumors these past few days that the Steelers may be giving up draft picks for Cousins and now potentially Junnu.

It's like the Penguins: pick a damn lane and stay in it. Fans may not like it, but they'll understand/respect your process.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Yeah, I don't have a problem with them playing bully ball, in theory. I think people are tired of it because it hasn't worked for this team in a long time, but I'd argue they just haven't had the right personnel for it. Starting first and foremost with the O-line, but poor QB play, a plodding RB with terrible vision, and WR who are unwilling to block also have played big roles. And even though I'm a fan of Muth, not sure he's been the best fit either.

Well put
For the past like 6 years we've heard "we're gonna run the ball and be like the Steelers of the past".
Well they keep drafting bad players on offense that doesn't fit their scheme or are malcontents.

I still believe Pat Meyer is a huge problem. I've seen nothing from a development standpoint on the line that screams his guys are getting better. But of course they won't fire him bc his contract isn't up. What a pathetic limp dick franchise this has become.