OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Post Draft - Still dont need no QB

[Empoleon8771]

I actually like Smith as a TE, but you already have Muth and Washington. Why do you need Smith as well? Really bizarre move if they end up making it, unless you're immediately shopping Washington for a WR.

 

[Peat]

I actually like Smith as a TE, but you already have Muth and Washington. Why do you need Smith as well? Really bizarre move if they end up making it, unless you're immediately shopping Washington for a WR.

Despite Muth and Washington not missing a game, the other TEs got 483 snaps. Obviously that entire package of snaps isn't available as I'll bet there's a few 4 TE sets in there, but there's still enough that I think the identity of TE3 matters, particularly if TE3 is good enough to actually take some snaps off of Washington and Muth. And since my understanding is that Smith is a better blocker than Muth and a better receiver than Washington, I think he could.

 

[Snooki Stackhouse]

Yes - another TE they can underutilize, fantastic.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I actually like Smith as a TE, but you already have Muth and Washington. Why do you need Smith as well? Really bizarre move if they end up making it, unless you're immediately shopping Washington for a WR.

I really don't consider Wash as a TE- he's basically a glorified Tackle Eligible at this point.
Should and could they use him more as TE? Of course

But they've pigeon-holed him and will likely never get such an opportunity. So I'll say the pursuit of Jonnu seems pretty smart so Smith can run the offense he wants.

 

[T1K]

This Jonnu rumor screams desperation to me

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I really don't consider Wash as a TE- he's basically a glorified Tackle Eligible at this point.
Should and could they use him more as TE? Of course

But they've pigeon-holed him and will likely never get such an opportunity. So I'll say the pursuit of Jonnu seems pretty smart so Smith can run the offense he wants.

Washington can barely run his knees aren’t great. He is better suited as blocker and should probably transition to OT down the line

 

[bigdaddyk88]

This Jonnu rumor screams desperation to me

It screams Smith. He would rather feed multiple te than multiple wrs

 

[TooManyHumans]

Get him and trade Muth.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Despite Muth and Washington not missing a game, the other TEs got 483 snaps. Obviously that entire package of snaps isn't available as I'll bet there's a few 4 TE sets in there, but there's still enough that I think the identity of TE3 matters, particularly if TE3 is good enough to actually take some snaps off of Washington and Muth. And since my understanding is that Smith is a better blocker than Muth and a better receiver than Washington, I think he could.

Heyward and Pruitt had targets as TE under smith. He would definitely love Junu who was the 2nd most targeted player for him in Atlanta

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Get him and trade Muth.

Why Muth is wr 2 right now

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Why Muth is wr 2 right now

I don't agree with this take.
You said something similar last year when it was only GP at WR and then a bunch of scrubs.
You'd think that Muth's production would have skyrocketed, but that didn't come to fruition.

If they bring in Junu then you can make the claim that he and Muth are your "WR2". But right now they don't have another pass catcher that scares anyone and it's easy for the defense

 

[WickedWrister]

Darnell only ran routes on 16% of his snaps, he really isn't anything more than an extra blocker or a guy you can scheme a couple of touches here and there when the D isn't paying him any respect.

Steelers ran an absurd amount of 13 personnel last year, 2nd most amount of snaps in that formation in the league. Only problem is that we weren't very efficient with those plays, 21st in success rate. This is a huge problem.

Jonnu Smith excels in those catch and run YAC situations. Not an elite route runner or anything but when he gets the ball in his hands and a head of steam, he's a beast to try and bring down.

Kind of wild that Arthur Smith has been Jonnu's coach 5 out of his 8 years in the league, 3 different teams lol. I honestly though we were getting him last year, but got MyCole Pruitt instead.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I don't agree with this take.
You said something similar last year when it was only GP at WR and then a bunch of scrubs.
You'd think that Muth's production would have skyrocketed, but that didn't come to fruition.

If they bring in Junu then you can make the claim that he and Muth are your "WR2". But right now they don't have another pass catcher that scares anyone and it's easy for the defense

I don’t agree with it either.
Reportedly the are calling trying to use some of the 12 picks in next year draft for playmakers but we both know they aren’t trading any 1st or 2nd round picks. I am not even sure they would trade the extra 3rd they got for GP.
Junu was the 2nd most targeted Falcon ahead of Pitts and behind London in Atlanta. Junu probably a pick swap and an contract extension. He was the dolphins best player maker last season

 

[bigdaddyk88]

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think mentioning that Washington is more of a blocking TE than a TE that actually runs routes is valid, and any 2 TE sets where they're passing to TEs will have Muth and Smith as the TEs is correct. I just think it's really, really stupid that they're only using Washington like that.

Waste of a 3rd round pick to get a blocking TE that you won't throw the ball to IMO.

 

[nsvoyageurs]

Arthur Smith will blow his load if the Steelers reunite him with Jonnu Smith.

Mike Tomlin/Arthur Smith are stuck in 1955. Might as well bring back Elbie Nickel.

 

[Peat]

I think mentioning that Washington is more of a blocking TE than a TE that actually runs routes is valid, and any 2 TE sets where they're passing to TEs will have Muth and Smith as the TEs is correct. I just think it's really, really stupid that they're only using Washington like that.

Waste of a 3rd round pick to get a blocking TE that you won't throw the ball to IMO.

Do you think that if they just tried harder with Washington he'd blossom and it's on the coaches for underutilising him rather than the player's lack of talent in that field?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Do you think that if they just tried harder with Washington he'd blossom and it's on the coaches for underutilising him rather than the player's lack of talent in that field?

Yes, pretty firmly. The dude is a mammoth on the field and has had some really exciting highlights when given the chance.

Like this one for example:

 

[Peat]

Yes, pretty firmly. The dude is a mammoth on the field and has had some really exciting highlights when given the chance.

Like this one for example:

That doesn't mean he can run a route though.

Like yeah, he's a fun dude with the ball in his hands - although he's not doing anything much there that most RBs haven't done many times. But being able to rely on him to constantly get into space as more than a checkdown option?

Even as someone who doesn't believe in the Steelers' coaching, it seems far more likely that the really big guy who hasn't run a ton of routes just isn't a particularly agile or polished route runner and that the OC (who loves TEs) shies away from using him there for good reason rather than the Steelers just aren't interested in using him.

 

[Empoleon8771]

That doesn't mean he can run a route though.

Like yeah, he's a fun dude with the ball in his hands - although he's not doing anything much there that most RBs haven't done many times. But being able to rely on him to constantly get into space as more than a checkdown option?

Even as someone who doesn't believe in the Steelers' coaching, it seems far more likely that the really big guy who hasn't run a ton of routes just isn't a particularly agile or polished route runner and that the OC (who loves TEs) shies away from using him there for good reason rather than the Steelers just aren't interested in using him.

Is there anything to suggest he can't run a route? He may be a mediocre route runner but "can't run a route" seems excessive.

Idk, I think the natural athletic gifts he has should have made them try a lot harder to polish his game than they have tried. They basically decided he was a 6th OL and haven't tried to develop him beyond that.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Is there anything to suggest he can't run a route? He may be a mediocre route runner but "can't run a route" seems excessive.

Idk, I think the natural athletic gifts he has should have made them try a lot harder to polish his game than they have tried. They basically decided he was a 6th OL and haven't tried to develop him beyond that.

The bulk of his catches were off of roll outs with no yac. They tried using him as wr against Dallas Fields missed him and Heyward.

 

[Peat]

Is there anything to suggest he can't run a route? He may be a mediocre route runner but "can't run a route" seems excessive.

Idk, I think the natural athletic gifts he has should have made them try a lot harder to polish his game than they have tried. They basically decided he was a 6th OL and haven't tried to develop him beyond that.

Is there anything to suggest he's even a mediocre route runner though?

The reality is unless any of us has been watching a ton of Washington tape without telling the others, none of us knows. It's not like there's a ton of tape and data to make it obvious, there's just very sparse usage on the field, both in college and in the NFL. I imagine anyone going to Steelers training has a far, far better idea - but that's none of us. None of us know how he looks there, or how hard the Steelers have tried to develop him there.

What I do know is there's not a whole lot of proof for his athletic gifts extending to change of direction, which is the athletic gift I'd tie most to route running. He didn't do the three cone drill at the combine which is probably the most telling for CoD, and that was when he was at 264, not the 300-odd he's meant to be.

And that in general, the best route runners in the NFL are frequently not all that athletic, and that it's far more of a technical art than one of raw athleticism anyway.

He's also playing for one of the most TE-centric OCs in the league. Smith's offences were in the top 5 for the percentage of passes thrown at TEs for 4 years prior to this year, where they were merely 8th. If Arthur Smith doesn't want to throw at a TE, I think it's really likely there's a good reason for it.

 

[Snooki Stackhouse]

How many times have two TEs been WR2 and WR3 on a team? Obviously Pitts and Jonnu under Arthur Smith, each getting like 600 yards on a pretty mediocre offense. Was that because that was a great way to design an offense, or because their QB sucked ass and Pitts was underwhelming?

In Baltimore Likely and Andrews both involved, but Bateman was their WR2 and that running game is insane. Plus I bet Andrews starts to fade, he had a bumpy year and is getting older.

Honestly I'd rather get the WR they need and if you want to throw more to TEs there's more meat on the Muth and Washington bone in my opinion.

 

[T1K]

How many times have two TEs been WR2 and WR3 on a team? Obviously Pitts and Jonnu under Arthur Smith, each getting like 600 yards on a pretty mediocre offense. Was that because that was a great way to design an offense, or because their QB sucked ass and Pitts was underwhelming?

In Baltimore Likely and Andrews both involved, but Bateman was their WR2 and that running game is insane. Plus I bet Andrews starts to fade, he had a bumpy year and is getting older.

Honestly I'd rather get the WR they need and if you want to throw more to TEs there's more meat on the Muth and Washington bone in my opinion.

It seems to me like they’ll take any “elite” skill player they can get. Jonnu’s connection with Art certainly helps, but I wouldn’t expect them to be in the mix for other TEs. It’s pretty crazy to me that they traded Pickens with no plan, but obviously other factors were at play there.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

It seems to me like they’ll take any “elite” skill player they can get. Jonnu’s connection with Art certainly helps, but I wouldn’t expect them to be in the mix for other TEs. It’s pretty crazy to me that they traded Pickens with no plan, but obviously other factors were at play there.

But I don’t believe that they really want to pay the draft capital for an elite skill player.