OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Post Draft - Still dont need no QB

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Steelers need to up their game.

Do they?

 

[Booker T]

Do they?

A tongue-in-cheek comment, but if you're in a win now mode, worth it in my opinion; especially with the cap rising every year. I wish I got to see Rodgers with GP and DK. I think that would be worth kicking the can down the road a little.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

A tongue-in-cheek comment, but if you're in a win now mode, worth it in my opinion; especially with the cap rising every year. I wish I got to see Rodgers with GP and DK. I think that would be worth kicking the can down the road a little.

Sure it’s a tool but the success of it, if we’re using that chart as an example, is pretty mixed.

 

[DanielPlainview]

These are some real Browns level moves

 

[Booker T]

Sure it’s a tool but the success of it, if we’re using that chart as an example, is pretty mixed.

For sure, it requires a fine balance of restructuring deals for players that are worth it, trading away these deals down the line while players are still in their prime for draft picks, and drafting players in the first 3-4 rounds that can immediately step onto the field and replace said player. A lot of the numbers are overinflated, but if you can kick the can far enough down the road, with the cap increasing each year, it's worth it imo. It just takes a competent GM to pull it off and an owner willing to open his wallet.

 

[Pens x]

It is funny that many of you convinced yourselves the Steelers have some sort of plan. I don’t think this organization plans much these days.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

It’s too bad the Steelers don’t have anyone from the Eagles organization that could have experience with it.

 

[Booker T]

It’s too bad the Steelers don’t have anyone from the Eagles organization that could have experience with it.

Here's a decent article on it: How the Eagles manipulate the salary cap

Essentially, the dead money has to be replaced by rookie deals. So this only works if you're able to draft well.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Man the number of Steelers fans talking themselves into Will Howard is…something.

(I know you’re joking)

Pens finally firing Sullivan now lets me shift back to the Pens while the Steelers keep spiralling down the shitter for dumb f*** choices because Tomlin and Khan are about as brilliant as Harry and Lloyd from Dumb and Dumber.

 

[TimmyD]

I mean with what just transpired today, it's more evidence that I'm correct

This is the 4th WR in a row the Steelers have had to trade for behavior reasons: AB, Chase Claypool, Dionte Johnson, and now Pickens. People blow Tomlin for "managing" those guys to get the production he did. Except he didn't manage shit, he kept them happy by enabling them. Those guys all failed with other teams because the HC wouldn't tolerate their bullshit.

It's precisely that lack of discipline and commitment to excellence why Tomlin has won just 3 playoff games in 13 years, and none the last 8.

Again, you throw some talented but undisciplined assholes together you can win some games. But those guys never win anything of consequence.


I've said it before. Tomlin inherited the absolute best possible team any coach could hope for in any sport. Without that, he's done in this league as a coach after 5-6 years and a couple of teams.

And he's going to leave an absolute dumpster fire for the next coach. Not a single assistant worth a damn (maybe Danny). And a handful of players, at best, worth trying to build a core and culture around.

To the bolded point. Thank you. I’m glad someone else sees the same thing. I’m so tired of hearing people claim Mike Tomlin “handles malcontents.” No he doesn’t. Mike Tomlin never “handled” Antonio Brown like the national world loves to claim. He never told him no. That is how Mike Tomlin got divas to listen… by never telling them no… The very first time he tried telling AB no, AB threw a bitch fit and wanted out. He doesn’t handle shit and never has.

 

[Pens x]

Hopefully, Wilson learned how to read this off season.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

GP had to go though

 

[xlm34]

GP had to go though

Can you show some reports of him showing up late to games or meetings or practices? Maybe they exist. I don’t really know.

Metcalf is a hothead on the field but at he’s at a least a professional. Pickens was definitely not.

 

[Empoleon8771]

NFL Teams 'Laughed' at Idea of Trading for George Pickens During the Draft

The Steelers were reportedly trying to offload George Pickens at the NFL draft, but other teams 'laughed' at the idea of bringing him on board.

www.si.com

Other teams apparently "laughed at" the idea of trading for Pickens at the draft.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

To the bolded point. Thank you. I’m glad someone else sees the same thing. I’m so tired of hearing people claim Mike Tomlin “handles malcontents.” No he doesn’t. Mike Tomlin never “handled” Antonio Brown like the national world loves to claim. He never told him no. That is how Mike Tomlin got divas to listen… by never telling them no… The very first time he tried telling AB no, AB threw a bitch fit and wanted out. He doesn’t handle shit and never has.

So he did handle him? His job is to get production out of the player. He did that for damn near a decade.

you not liking what that looks like because it hurts your sensibilities is irrelevant.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

You can fault the guy for many things but handling ego is NOT one of Tomlins issues.

Anyone with that opinion either is so biased agiant Tomlin in general that discussion is pointless.

Or

Is so rigid that they literally dont understand how managing people work. Any argument along the lines of “he didnt handle them he ____ and the other coaches wouldnt put up with ______” well DUH thats handling it.

 

[pistolpete11]

You can fault the guy for many things but handling ego is NOT one of Tomlins issues.

Anyone with that opinion either is so biased agiant Tomlin in general that discussion is pointless.

Or

Is so rigid that they literally dont understand how managing people work. Any argument along the lines of “he didnt handle them he ____ and the other coaches wouldnt put up with ______” well DUH thats handling it.

Yes and no.

He got the production, but at what cost? Showing up to to meetings or even games late, not running routes when they aren't getting the ball, not blocking, taking selfish penalties, the distraction to the rest of the team that all of this brings...this has a negative impact on the team. Whether the production is enough to put up with it is another question.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Yes and no.

He got the production, but at what cost? Showing up to to meetings or even games late, not running routes when they aren't getting the ball, not blocking, taking selfish penalties, the distraction to the rest of the team that all of this brings...this has a negative impact on the team. Whether the production is enough to put up with it is another question.

When the distraction outweighs the production then you move on. Its a sliding scale.

And imo fans outweigh heavily off field issues. Its bot that they dont matter, just not nearly as much as fans and talking heads bluster about them.

 

[TimmyD]

So he did handle him? His job is to get production out of the player. He did that for damn near a decade.

you not liking what that looks like because it hurts your sensibilities is irrelevant.

Never telling a guy no isn’t handling them. Letting them get away with whatever they want isn’t handling someone at all. Handling him would be actually disciplining him for showing up late to the Christmas Day game. Or actually criticizing him for quitting onerous instead of making up the lamest excuse in the book that they were “load managing” him. Letting a malcontent continue to do whatever they want is not even remotely close to handling them

 

[xlm34]

Never telling a guy no isn’t handling them. Letting them get away with whatever they want isn’t handling someone at all. Handling him would be actually disciplining him for showing up late to the Christmas Day game. Or actually criticizing him for quitting onerous instead of making up the lamest excuse in the book that they were “load managing” him. Letting a malcontent continue to do whatever they want is not even remotely close to handling them

Who cares if a player is publicly criticized? Nobody here knows what goes on behind the scenes.

 

[Peat]

I agree with the idea that managing difficult personalities isn't about changing the personality, it's about finding ways to keep the friction to livable levels while getting enough production to make it worthwhile. It'd be lovely if he persuaded some of the extreme cases to change who they are but that's just rare. I'm also guessing every coach in the NFL is doing that to some level. Hell, pretty much every coach in any top end competitive sport.

And I'm gonna guess Tomlin earned his reputation fairly.

But it's got to be pointed out that without Ben to throw the guys the ball, his ability to get WRs to stay in line has nosedived. And not just in a bad stuff is going on off the field way, but in a visibly not doing their job on the field way

 

[pistolpete11]

When the distraction outweighs the production then you move on. Its a sliding scale.

And imo fans outweigh heavily off field issues. Its bot that they dont matter, just not nearly as much as fans and talking heads bluster about them.

Right, but since you can't just look at the production, who's to say Tomlin's scale is the right scale?

I'm not hardcore on the side of Tomlin mismanaging these guys. I agree with you that you have to be able to put up with some bullshit. I just think there are other (and probably impossible to quantify) affects on the team that you can't just say "he got the production when other's didn't".

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Maybe they find one in the draft since they’re not any good free agents. We did have a wr who could run the entire tree he is in Dallas now

*Steelers passed on Texas stud Matthew Golden in rd 1 (I do like the Harmon pick)
*Steelers passed onSavion Williams, a decent Tai Felton, a shifty Chamere Dike, and stud Donte Thornton for Caleb Johnson in a historically deep running back class.
*Steelers passed on Jalen Royals and Stanford stud Elic Ayomanor for a pine rider in Jack Sawyer (yikes).
*Steelers passed on Tory Horton for a 1 down run stuffer in rd 5…in a historically deep DT draft (Zeek Biggers in Rd 7 ever bit as good if not better Yahya Black).

The timing of this trade is moronic.

 

[Peat]

*Steelers passed on Texas stud Matthew Golden in rd 1 (I do like the Harmon pick)
*Steelers passed onSavion Williams, a decent Tai Felton, a shifty Chamere Dike, and stud Donte Thornton for Caleb Johnson in a historically deep running back class.
*Steelers passed on Jalen Royals and Stanford stud Elic Ayomanor for a pine rider in Jack Sawyer (yikes).
*Steelers passed on Tory Horton for a 1 down run stuffer in rd 5…in a historically deep DT draft (Zeek Biggers in Rd 7 ever bit as good if not better Yahya Black).

The timing of this trade is moronic.

I really don't see the problem with going BPA on all of all those picks, and either going with a free agent or leaning hard on the 3rd round pick they made last season and who'd have probably gone before anybody other than Golden in this.

 

[TooManyHumans]

It is just disappointing because I thought they were finally actually emphasizing having an offense that can threaten defenses. Apparently not.