OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Post Draft - Still dont need no QB

[Goalie_Bob]

I'm not expecting them to do this, but I wouldn't rule out them actually trading for another WR before the season starts. I know Green Bay sticks out as having an abundance of decent #2/3 WRs and just drafted Golden in round 1. Green Bay still has all of Reed, Watson, Doubs and Wicks on the team, those 4 plus Golden seems like more WRs than they need.

Watson and Doubs are both free agents after next year, so I think throwing a 4th/5th for one of them would make sense to fill the hole Pickens just left. Watson is the guy I like more but Doubs seems like the guy who is more achievable.

They also drafted Savion Williams in the 3rd.

 

[WickedWrister]

I am so excited about this because they finally have a plan to go for a QB and they are collecting picks.

Tank, tank hard. Hopefully this means that they know Rodgers isn't coming. Though there are some decent WRs still out there. They could sign one of those guys as well. Gabe Davis was just released as well.


Totally disagree with this assessment. Last years WR class was far superior to this year's class. Wilson would have been a high/mid 2nd.

I don't know, personally I don't see the vision. I'm kind of with Kozora here.

 

[cookthebooks]

*whispers* the defense has already aged out

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I am so excited about this because they finally have a plan to go for a QB and they are collecting picks.

Tank, tank hard. Hopefully this means that they know Rodgers isn't coming. Though there are some decent WRs still out there. They could sign one of those guys as well. Gabe Davis was just released as well.


Totally disagree with this assessment. Last years WR class was far superior to this year's class. Wilson would have been a high/mid 2nd.

No he wouldn’t Wilson isn’t any better than ca3. He isn’t anything more than a slot guy who can’t beat press.

 

[lastcupever75]

You're not wrong that teams theoretically don't need to tank in order to draft a promising talent, the hurdle the Steelers are currently facing is the assets they plan on using to trade up in next year's draft to hopefully draft one of the top talents of the class, are currently inferior to the assets available to at least the Browns and Rams, who will also be looking at next year's QB class. So at this moment, trading up isn't looking to be the one size fits all solution some believe it to be.

Where I would disagree is the level of talent needed to likely compete in the future, and where that talent is likely to be taken going forward.

A lot has already changed regarding how the league views the QB position and the inherent talent and thus perceived ceiling that needs to be present to likely succeed as franchise quality players since the majority of last year's semi-finalists you mentioned were drafted. I think it's pretty obvious going forward that:

• The next Lamar level talent with his legs and arm is not dropping to the the last pick of the first round anymore.
• The next Allen like frame and arm, regardless of accuracy concerns, will be a top 5 pick if not top 3 based on measurables alone, the potential ceiling will be worth it.
• The next Mahomes the same.
• Daniels is already an example of the new breed of talent that teams are looking for.

You're right when it comes to Hurts, who needed development after being drafted, but that was within the Eagles organization, something proven to be not so easily replicated. Is anyone confident Tomlin would've been as succesfful developing Hurts into what he's become? Because that's what it would take if going that route.

Talents with high ceiling potential no longer drop past the top of drafts like they used to. In order to compete with the regulars atop the standings nowadays, you need top tier QB play. At least when considering the AFC, with the likes of Mahomes dominating the AFC championship games like Brady did before him, and the likes of Lamar, Allen, and Burrow not going anywhere anytime soon.

great post. i agree

the (over) drafting of penix, nix, dart, slough, milroe is showing teams are willing to take their shot.

 

[Shaftception]

I think the calculus changes a lot (in our favor) if we finish with like a top 12ish pick. We absolutely have the ammunition to trade up and get one of the top QB's at that point, although it would require giving up at least one future 1st round pick, if not more.

I think the 2021 class is a pretty relevant in this discussion. It's post-Mahomes, Lamar, Allen and there were 5 QB's taken in the top 15, including two trade ups. The 49ers moved from 12 to 3 and the Bears from 20 to 11 to get their guys. It just depends on how much you're willing to overpay.

Yes if the can get closer to the 10th pick range as a starting position, I'd feel a lot better about their chances of getting a worthwhile QB better than the leftover secondary tier of the class.

But, until I see them trade Watt and not try to replace Pickens before the start of the season, I'm not confident this team won't do everything in their power to win as many meaningless regular season games as possible.

 

[lastcupever75]

Setting everything else aside, it's going to be entertaining as hell the first time Pickens has 1 catch for 11 yards on 3 targets while Lamb goes for 150+.

while lamb had 152 targets
WRs Tolbert, Turpin, cooks had over 200 tagets.
their TEs another 120.

looking at that, I'll be surprised if he doesn't get near 100 targets.
they also traded for Mingo at the end of the last year so maybe he takes away some targets.

But they're not afraid to pass the ball. or even, be still my heart, use the middle of the field

 

[Shaftception]

*whispers* the defense has already aged out

Considering the amount of 30+ point games against said defense has given up during this span of ineptitude, I'd ask when they ever aged in, let alone out.

 

[Snooki Stackhouse]

As others have said, the Steelers plan seems to be at odds with itself.

If you're trying to win now, you sign Rodgers, extend Watt, keep Minkah, and keep Pickens.

If you're trying to get your QB in 2026 and maybe contend in 2027, then you do the opposite of those things.

To do a mix of those things seems like you're not making progress toward either goal.

 

[Peat]

Came across a chart online somewhere.
It highlighted who is/could be in the running for one. Obviously without any type of injuries

There were like 7 teams. One of them being the rams who I think if they do as well as l last year, won’t draft a successor to stafford but try to go all in again to win it in his few remaining years.

Jets. I think with Glenn at head coach, their D gets them a few more wins than expected.
Pitt
Vegas ( Milroe?)
browns (SS?)
Indy ( Richardson?)
Saints ( slough? 2nd Rndr this year)

Not too many right now that would be looking for a qb at the top of the draft. And we might be just as bad as some of those teams so wouldn’t have to trade up so much.

Yeah, I've done the exercise myself.

The thing is it's not just about who they have, it's about who they can get. The Bears liked Fields when their option was Bryce Young. Give them Caleb Williams and they're changing their mind. The NFL's demand for QBs stretches to meet the supply.

And as such, bearing in mind that any team ends up in the top 5 usually has some questions to ask about their QB... well, I think we'll be in a situation where if's a loaded class, teams are rushing to load up. And if it isn't then, well, that's a problem anyway.

Will be fascinating to see what the Rams do if Stafford is great but the Falcons give them a great shot at a long term franchise QB. 2026 will be his age 38 season, even if Stafford is great you know there's probably not much of it left. Just about any other franchise and I'd say they'd take the long term QB, but the Rams are hella aggressive. I'd also add that given that the Rams finished 10-7 with a negative point differential, feels like there's a correction coming there sooner or later.

 

[ZorkEnchanter]

I don't know, personally I don't see the vision. I'm kind of with Kozora here.

Nobody does... I think most on here agree. (Team is kinda meandering in the Coaching and Front Office)

That's why I said we should trade Watt. (Love the dude but....)

• The QB room even with Rodgers (aka ... I really am not into Football but I'll show up if I get paid) is not close to Super Bowl contention... (Rodgers will get killed behind our OL)
• IF we draft a VERY GOOD rookie QB next year... we still won't be ready to contend (for another year or so)
• The Offense / Defensive talent just don't line up at all. (and the coaching sure doesn't help)

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I'm not expecting them to do this, but I wouldn't rule out them actually trading for another WR before the season starts. I know Green Bay sticks out as having an abundance of decent #2/3 WRs and just drafted Golden in round 1. Green Bay still has all of Reed, Watson, Doubs and Wicks on the team, those 4 plus Golden seems like more WRs than they need.

Watson and Doubs are both free agents after next year, so I think throwing a 4th/5th for one of them would make sense to fill the hole Pickens just left. Watson is the guy I like more but Doubs seems like the guy who is more achievable.

Can Watson stay healthy? And is he the most like DK in terms of route tree and the like? Those would be my beefs with him. But I agree GB seems to have guys we could use.

 

[Peat]

You're not wrong that teams theoretically don't need to tank in order to draft a promising talent, the hurdle the Steelers are currently facing is the assets they plan on using to trade up in next year's draft to hopefully draft one of the top talents of the class, are currently inferior to the assets available to at least the Browns and Rams, who will also be looking at next year's QB class. So at this moment, trading up isn't looking to be the one size fits all solution some believe it to be.

Where I would disagree is the level of talent needed to likely compete in the future, and where that talent is likely to be taken going forward.

A lot has already changed regarding how the league views the QB position and the inherent talent and thus perceived ceiling that needs to be present to likely succeed as franchise quality players since the majority of last year's semi-finalists you mentioned were drafted. I think it's pretty obvious going forward that:

• The next Lamar level talent with his legs and arm is not dropping to the the last pick of the first round anymore.
• The next Allen like frame and arm, regardless of accuracy concerns, will be a top 5 pick if not top 3 based on measurables alone, the potential ceiling will be worth it.
• The next Mahomes the same.
• Daniels is already an example of the new breed of talent that teams are looking for.

You're right when it comes to Hurts, who needed development after being drafted, but that was within the Eagles organization, something proven to be not so easily replicated. Is anyone confident Tomlin would've been as succesfful developing Hurts into what he's become? Because that's what it would take if going that route.

Talents with high ceiling potential no longer drop past the top of drafts like they used to. In order to compete with the regulars atop the standings nowadays, you need top tier QB play. At least when considering the AFC, with the likes of Mahomes dominating the AFC championship games like Brady did before him, and the likes of Lamar, Allen, and Burrow not going anywhere anytime soon.

This is why Sanders falling in the draft shouldn't have been a surprise. While he likely doesn't fall as far as he did if not for the circus around him, I still doubt he'dve gone in the first in a normal circumstance, and certainly not top 5 like projected. He has no singular outstanding physical talent, he's accurate for the college game, that's about it. He isn't tall, he isn't fast, doesn't have a cannon arm, etc. In ortherwords, he has a high floor and low ceiling toolset wise, and that's not the type of talent that's going to be beating Mahomes, Lamar, Allen, etc. in the playoffs anytime soon.

If I'm proven wrong, and the Steelers develop their next franchise QB outside the top 5-7 picks, so be it, I'll be glad. But the trend I'm seeing makes me severely doubt it, and thus if they're to find their next franchise QB, I'm confident it'll need to be in the top range of picks in said draft, and they aren't likely to get there at the moment by simply trading up from their usual draft position.

I think even in this traits loving, QB hungry era, you get talent dropping. As @WickedWrister pointed out, you could get a big traits QB in Fields at 11 in 2021. Jalen Milroe was there floating free if you wanted to take the gamble that he can be Hurts, just like Willis was before.

And it's not like smart accurate QBs with vanilla athleticism are doing nothing. If Burrow had a defence, he'd be deadly. I expect Purdy to come roaring back once the 49ers sort out the rest of their offence and ditto Stroud at the Texans. Nix just made nearly as good a start as Daniels (although he does have some decent running). Two out of four there didn't require high picks too.

We've had some lean years for QB talent but I feel confident that there will be opportunities because there have been opportunities. And yes, it will require Tomlin and his coaches to be better talent developers than they have been recently, but pretty much everything requires that. It's not like developing a top 5 pick in a cratered out team has been an easy ask recently either.

It's not a sure route, but none of this is. I think it's as reasonable a gamble as anything else.

 

[lastcupever75]

Yeah, I've done the exercise myself.

The thing is it's not just about who they have, it's about who they can get. The Bears liked Fields when their option was Bryce Young. Give them Caleb Williams and they're changing their mind. The NFL's demand for QBs stretches to meet the supply.

And as such, bearing in mind that any team ends up in the top 5 usually has some questions to ask about their QB... well, I think we'll be in a situation where if's a loaded class, teams are rushing to load up. And if it isn't then, well, that's a problem anyway.

Will be fascinating to see what the Rams do if Stafford is great but the Falcons give them a great shot at a long term franchise QB. 2026 will be his age 38 season, even if Stafford is great you know there's probably not much of it left. Just about any other franchise and I'd say they'd take the long term QB, but the Rams are hella aggressive. I'd also add that given that the Rams finished 10-7 with a negative point differential, feels like there's a correction coming there sooner or later.

maybe. their Defense looks to be reloaded and they were 20 yards away from beating the SB champs in philly during a blizard. not your typical LA type team.
i think atlanta improves this year as well. penix and now 2 book end pass rushers for the defense.
so what are they looking at... two 1st round picks in the 20s? I think they'll need another 1st to move into the top 7 or so for a top QB. so now three !st rounders to get stafford's eventual replacement?? i give that a low chance of happening.
But, you never know, stafford could easily get hurt at that age and the season could spiral down where they'll be in postion to get their next QB.
lots of differnet angles to the 2025 season already

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Make you case, ill wait.

I mean with what just transpired today, it's more evidence that I'm correct

This is the 4th WR in a row the Steelers have had to trade for behavior reasons: AB, Chase Claypool, Dionte Johnson, and now Pickens. People blow Tomlin for "managing" those guys to get the production he did. Except he didn't manage shit, he kept them happy by enabling them. Those guys all failed with other teams because the HC wouldn't tolerate their bullshit.

It's precisely that lack of discipline and commitment to excellence why Tomlin has won just 3 playoff games in 13 years, and none the last 8.

Again, you throw some talented but undisciplined assholes together you can win some games. But those guys never win anything of consequence.


I've said it before. Tomlin inherited the absolute best possible team any coach could hope for in any sport. Without that, he's done in this league as a coach after 5-6 years and a couple of teams.

And he's going to leave an absolute dumpster fire for the next coach. Not a single assistant worth a damn (maybe Danny). And a handful of players, at best, worth trying to build a core and culture around.

 

[Smoke]

I don't know about you guys but I sure am going to miss GP's every other game crash out.

 

[lastcupever75]

I mean with what just transpired today, it's more evidence that I'm correct

This is the 4th WR in a row the Steelers have had to trade for behavior reasons: AB, Chase Claypool, Dionte Johnson, and now Pickens. People blow Tomlin for "managing" those guys to get the production he did. Except he didn't manage shit, he kept them happy by enabling them. Those guys all failed with other teams because the HC wouldn't tolerate their bullshit.

It's precisely that lack of discipline and commitment to excellence why Tomlin has won just 3 playoff games in 13 years, and none the last 8.

Again, you throw some talented but undisciplined assholes together you can win some games. But those guys never win anything of consequence.


I've said it before. Tomlin inherited the absolute best possible team any coach could hope for in any sport. Without that, he's done in this league as a coach after 5-6 years and a couple of teams.

And he's going to leave an absolute dumpster fire for the next coach. Not a single assistant worth a damn (maybe Danny). And a handful of players, at best, worth trying to build a core and culture around.

yeah, that's a big problem. when you ask his backers what tomlin does well, they respond "he's a leader of men"
then you see the above 4 idiots they use relaitively high draft picks on, and have to trade them away for attitude issues.

he's right in there at the practices at the senior bowl, there at the drills and meeting at the combine. there at the pro days and personnal visits and they don't see any red flags with these players?
are they trusting him to turn them around? if so, he's falling flat on his face with that execution too ?

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

yeah, that's a big problem. when you ask his backers what tomlin does well, they respond "he's a leader of men"
then you see the above 4 idiots they use relaitively high draft picks on, and have to trade them away for attitude issues.

he's right in there at the practices at the senior bowl, there at the drills and meeting at the combine. there at the pro days and personnal visits and they don't see any red flags with these players?
are they trusting him to turn them around? if so, he's falling flat on his face with that execution too ?

Been saying it for a decade now: it's the "Emporer Has No Clothes" come to real life.

Pittsburgh and it's fans that will go to the matt for it's coaches is beyond bizarre.
And if you're a fan of Tomlin, then you must be a fan of Sullivan bc they're the exact same coach. You could even argue Sullivan was BETTER bc he had more recent success. Let that sink in.

 

[Peat]

maybe. their Defense looks to be reloaded and they were 20 yards away from beating the SB champs in philly during a blizard. not your typical LA type team.
i think atlanta improves this year as well. penix and now 2 book end pass rushers for the defense.
so what are they looking at... two 1st round picks in the 20s? I think they'll need another 1st to move into the top 7 or so for a top QB. so now three !st rounders to get stafford's eventual replacement?? i give that a low chance of happening.
But, you never know, stafford could easily get hurt at that age and the season could spiral down where they'll be in postion to get their next QB.
lots of differnet angles to the 2025 season already

It's the best part of the season, anything's possible

The Rams staying good wouldn't surprise me. The Falcons... as far as I can tell, there's not a lot of great pass rushers right out of the gate. They've retooled their defence a lot, but it might take time to go. I'm not 100% sold on Penix either. I guess them picking in the 20s wouldn't surprise me, but I'd probably bet on them being closer to 10 than not if it came to it. If I'm looking for reasons they can't be in the clown car this season, I'm not seeing many.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I don't know about you guys but I sure am going to miss GP's every other game crash out.

We just get to watch DK do it instead

 

[TooManyHumans]

I'm ready to move on from Tomlin, but using AB, Chase, or DJ to criticize him seems strange to me (I'll leave Pickens out because he has yet to have a chance to do anything elsewhere). Nobody but Tomlin got anything out of those guys. If anything I think they argue in favor of Tomlin, and again, I think it's time to move on from Tomlin.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

We just get to watch DK do it instead

Yea DK has his own issues, but if anyone can manage him it's Tomlin
/S

On a serious note, they need to find a WR than can do the entire tree. Wilson and Austin ain't it.
Not sure Wood can hold up over the entire season

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Yea DK has his own issues, but if anyone can manage him it's Tomlin
/S

On a serious note, they need to find a WR than can do the entire tree. Wilson and Austin ain't it.
Not sure Wood can hold up over the entire season

Maybe they find one in the draft since they’re not any good free agents. We did have a wr who could run the entire tree he is in Dallas now

 

[Empoleon8771]

I have literally no issues with moving on from Pickens, I think people are mistaken if they think that moving on from him is a bad thing.

I'm mad that they moved on from him without getting an alternative guy or drafting someone. This is just repeating the same mistakes they made last year. I have no confidence that this team is going to add a WR before the season starts, I'm not going to be fooled again like I was last off-season.

 

[Peat]

I have literally no issues with moving on from Pickens, I think people are mistaken if they think that moving on from him is a bad thing.

I'm mad that they moved on from him without getting an alternative guy or drafting someone. This is just repeating the same mistakes they made last year. I have no confidence that this team is going to add a WR before the season starts, I'm not going to be fooled again like I was last off-season.

Robert Woods will get 40 targets and you'll like it.