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OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Ploff wins?!? Fire Tomlin

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JTG said:
I think to counteract that...kids will stay for 4. Why wouldn't you if you're making money now? And without losing eligibility now, you're going to see these meh prospects probably go to JUCO.
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Especially when the higher end NIL deals are above 2nd draft pick contracts too. Sometimes though coming back for a 4th year can tank your draft stock too. I think back to Matt Barkley in the 2011 season where if he came out he’d be the #3 pick behind Luck & RGIII, and then in the 2012 season he has an awful senior yr and tanks his stock. Or hell even this year in Carson Beck. Massive draft hype (IMO it was completely unwarranted) and has an awful season, has to have surgery on his UCL, and transfers to Miami.
 
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JTG said:
Arch is the 20th ranked prospect ever by 247. Notable mentions ahead of him - Quinn Ewers, Bryce Young, Trevor Lawrence, and Justin Fields.

So if we want to talk about pedigree - we actually have one in house. Time to let him shit or get off the pot.

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What a loser mentality. Business man, not a football guy. We are doomed until he is gone. The squander left behind the last 10 years.

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Lawrence looking like a bust after three years is one of the biggest surprises for me since I started following the draft as a kid.

I thought for sure he would be a stud.
 
Mr Jiggyfly said:
Lawrence looking like a bust after three years is one of the biggest surprises for me since I started following the draft as a kid.

I thought for sure he would be a stud.
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Lawrence has largely been a victim of a shitty situation, including Meyer, ownership and GM dysfunction, etc. I said before that if you flipped him and Hurts, Lawrence would be a top 5-10 QB and Hurts is probably on the bench in Jacksonville.
 
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End of Line said:
Especially when the higher end NIL deals are above 2nd draft pick contracts too. Sometimes though coming back for a 4th year can tank your draft stock too. I think back to Matt Barkley in the 2011 season where if he came out he’d be the #3 pick behind Luck & RGIII, and then in the 2012 season he has an awful senior yr and tanks his stock. Or hell even this year in Carson Beck. Massive draft hype (IMO it was completely unwarranted) and has an awful season, has to have surgery on his UCL, and transfers to Miami.
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I don't know what to make of NIL money. It definitely changes the calculus some, but I think the biggest question still comes down to "Does coming back to school increase my draft stock or not?"

Yes, high end NIL deals are getting more than 2nd round picks, but most 2nd round picks aren't getting those high end NIL deals. I think in most cases, a player is still going to make more money in the NFL than with NIL. It's just a gamble of whether you think you can improve your stock for next year.
 
End of Line said:
Especially when the higher end NIL deals are above 2nd draft pick contracts too. Sometimes though coming back for a 4th year can tank your draft stock too. I think back to Matt Barkley in the 2011 season where if he came out he’d be the #3 pick behind Luck & RGIII, and then in the 2012 season he has an awful senior yr and tanks his stock. Or hell even this year in Carson Beck. Massive draft hype (IMO it was completely unwarranted) and has an awful season, has to have surgery on his UCL, and transfers to Miami.
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pistolpete11 said:
I don't know what to make of NIL money. It definitely changes the calculus some, but I think the biggest question still comes down to "Does coming back to school increase my draft stock or not?"

Yes, high end NIL deals are getting more than 2nd round picks, but most 2nd round picks aren't getting those high end NIL deals. I think in most cases, a player is still going to make more money in the NFL than with NIL. It's just a gamble of whether you think you can improve your stock for next year.
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I think with NIL we are going to see the same gripe as the players had when top 5 picks were making 60m and a 20th overall was making 1.2m. NIL has to be capped in some way. Top prospects and players who give a lot of time and publicity to the program should be compensated, but there is some disparity that shouldn't probably exist and I can see players getting pissed about it.

I think now programs have to prove they can develop. THey are going to want the top coaches, trainers, and therapists. College football is going to turn into an experience for these guys where they can tweak their bodies for 4 years while getting paid.

Mr Jiggyfly said:
Lawrence looking like a bust after three years is one of the biggest surprises for me since I started following the draft as a kid.

I thought for sure he would be a stud.
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MrBrightside said:
Lawrence has largely been a victim of a shitty situation, including Meyer, ownership and GM dysfunction, etc. I said before that if you flipped him and Hurts, Lawrence would be a top 5-10 QB and Hurts is probably on the bench in Jacksonville.
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There was a 5% chance he bombed and the only reason was because he never faced adversity. No one knew how he would react. Jacksonville TOTALLY f***ed him though.

Lawrence doesn't have a dawg in him, I don't think. Never needed it.
 
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JTG said:
There was a 5% chance he bombed and the only reason was because he never faced adversity. No one knew how he would react. Jacksonville TOTALLY f***ed him though.

Lawrence doesn't have a dawg in him, I don't think. Never needed it.
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Yeah, he seems extraordinarily laid back, which has its good parts but does make one wonder how he'd deal with adversity. I'd still take him, though.

Kozora's tweet this morning on Milroe is exactly how I feel about him.

 
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Drafting Milroe accomplishes nothing. Fields is not even 4 years older than him and is coming up on his 5th season in the league.

I very seriously believe what Fields needed for his career happened last year. If they can get him WRs, he has no excuses to not perform.
 
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What we need to do is stop getting enamored with mobile QBs who can’t process the game and aren’t all that accurate throwing the ball…our drafting of QBs stink: 1) do not project that the QB will change/ grow in the future as the odds aren’t great they’ll grow that much. Pick someone who has football IQ, processes the game well and is accurate #1 and 2) then pick someone with some mobility…don’t pick an athlete first…Tomlin always falls into this trap (see Terrell Edmunds)
 
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I'm not going to rehash the whole Milroe debate, but Kozora's points there are really dumb. If the Steelers are drafting Milroe, it's because they don't feel Fields is a legitimate QB1 going forward and they intend to develop Milroe as the QB1 while sitting behind Fields. Kozora mentions here that he'd want to start Milroe immediately, and that Milroe is redundant because they already have Fields to start:



But that is fundamentally not what they'd be doing if they were drafting Milroe. They'd be drafting him to sit for a few years and develop. Want to say it's not the best idea due to Milroe's problems? Sure, but the point Kozora is making there is a bad one.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
But that is fundamentally not what they'd be doing if they were drafting Milroe. They'd be drafting him to sit for a few years and develop. Want to say it's not the best idea due to Milroe's problems? Sure, but the point Kozora is making there is a bad one.
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How often does that actually happen, though? At most guys sit part of their first season, maybe all of it, but no one outside of GB is having guys sit for a few years to develop and we don't have a prime Aaron Rodgers at the position. This just doesn't happen in the NFL.
 
MrBrightside said:
How often does that actually happen, though? At most guys sit part of their first season, maybe all of it, but no one outside of GB is having guys sit for a few years to develop and we don't have a prime Aaron Rodgers at the position.
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The Steelers intended to do that with Pickett until Trubisky became unplayable and they were forced to go to Pickett.

With them using a later pick on Milroe, I have no doubts that they'd be drafting him to redshirt for at least a year or two.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
The Steelers intended to do that with Pickett until Trubisky became unplayable and they were forced to go to Pickett.

With them using a later pick on Milroe, I have no doubts that they'd be drafting him to redshirt for at least a year or two.
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I don't think that's true either. The entire argument for drafting Pickett was that while he had a lower ceiling, he was plug and play and had started 40+ games at a P5 school. And really, if you're being blocked by Mitch Trubisky you're not a serious NFL prospect.

But enough on this that I restarted - I just don't see the upside in Milroe (at least not that is superior to Fields) that justifies using a 2nd day choice, But I'll stop.
 
Peat said:
Hey, TJ Watt's school for OLBs is doing great business.
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Even then - they once asked Tomlin about TJ and what he has turned into and he said, "TJ's ceiling is higher than we thought it could be."

Like he didn't have a brother...in the league...winning defensive MVP trophies.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
The Steelers intended to do that with Pickett until Trubisky became unplayable and they were forced to go to Pickett.

With them using a later pick on Milroe, I have no doubts that they'd be drafting him to redshirt for at least a year or two.
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Yeah even Ben started camp as Qb3. I think Drafting Milroe makes sense because you don’t have to change the offense. If your going with Fields the vet you bring in is a Marito whose backing up Daniels in Washington

Double-Shift Lasse said:
Th reason not to draft Milroe isn't because he'd be redundant. It's because he isn't very good and this team isn't going to develop him.
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If you view Fields as a quality backup you know he hasn’t played 17 games in any season so far and was talking about not running as much because of his knees
 
I just don't get the logic behind cheaping out and hoping to get lucky for the most important position. Pay the price for a guy you actually believe in. It's not guaranteed to work out either, but at least you're giving yourself the best odds...even if that means waiting a year.
 
JTG said:
Even then - they once asked Tomlin about TJ and what he has turned into and he said, "TJ's ceiling is higher than we thought it could be."

Like he didn't have a brother...in the league...winning defensive MVP trophies.
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Eh. Not like being a brother guarantees great stuff - see Derek Watt. Or that the rest of the league thought Watt's ceiling was where it has become, or he'd have never fallen to the Steelers. I've no problem with them having an imprecise process, they all do.
 
pistolpete11 said:
I just don't get the logic behind cheaping out and hoping to get lucky for the most important position. Pay the price for a guy you actually believe in. It's not guaranteed to work out either, but at least you're giving yourself the best odds...even if that means waiting a year.
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It's also possible that they do believe in Milroe and think he's a 1st round talent, and they just think they're taking advantage of Milroe's stock being down due to his horrid bowl game appearance.

I have no objections with the idea of drafting a high risk, high reward QB in the 2nd or 3rd round to sit behind Fields. My objections in this case are specifically with Milroe, because he seems so flawed that I don't think the Steelers are the team that could develop him. This feels more like Willis than Hurts to me, and anything more than a late 3rd would make me very uncomfortable.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
It's also possible that they do believe in Milroe and think he's a 1st round talent, and they just think they're taking advantage of Milroe's stock being down due to his horrid bowl game appearance.

I have no objections with the idea of drafting a high risk, high reward QB in the 2nd or 3rd round to sit behind Fields. My objections in this case are specifically with Milroe, because he seems so flawed that I don't think the Steelers are the team that could develop him. This feels more like Willis than Hurts to me, and anything more than a late 3rd would make me very uncomfortable.
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First-round grade on a third-round pick sounds like Mason to me.
 
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