OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Ploff wins?!? Fire Tomlin

[Buddy Bizarre]

Steelers list Phil Matusz as new strength and conditioning coach.


This is a new one for me. He hired the strength and conditioning coaches from his son’s Boston College team.

Jesus Christ you can’t make this stuff up.

Can’t hire a good coach to save his life!

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Save for the Penguins...

I have no intention of turning this into a Sullivan discussion, and am indifferent on him.

However, the man has two championship rings in his respective sport in almost half that time (9 year span).

Tomlin in 15 years again has a high water mark of beating Alex Smith.

9 years two cups.

15 years “hey I once beat Alex Smith in a playoff game” is something only a drunk former NFL coach blurts out in a bar.

One is not like the other IMHO.

 

[pistolpete11]

I still think there's a bit of rosy retrospection on Fields. He was 4-2, but he was 4-2 largely because the level of competition and the defense was giving up less than 10 points a game in those wins. It ended up not working with Wilson, but that doesn't mean it would have worked with Fields. I think there are just as many games they lost where Fields may have made a difference as games they won that they probably don't with him.

I get the point that he's younger and they could have found out for sure if they should move forward with him, but I think we would have ultimately ended up in the same position. No 'QB of the Future' and no real good options to find that guy

If they go with Fields for next year, fine, but I don't expect anything more than 9-10 wins and if they get into the playoffs, one and done.

One is not like the other IMHO.

Yet. One is not like the other yet.

....although since Tomlin is not going anywhere, Sullivan will never be able to catch up.

 

[MrBrightside]

 

[Empoleon8771]

I've really gotten the impression that the Steelers are moving on from Wilson based on everything that has been said since the end of the season. Which almost feels like scapegoating him for the mess of the rest of the team, but I digress.

I still think there's a bit of rosy retrospection on Fields. He was 4-2, but he was 4-2 largely because the level of competition and the defense was giving up less than 10 points a game in those wins. It ended up not working with Wilson, but that doesn't mean it would have worked with Fields. I think there are just as many games they lost where Fields may have made a difference as games they won that they probably don't with him.

I get the point that he's younger and they could have found out for sure if they should move forward with him, but I think we would have ultimately ended up in the same position. No 'QB of the Future' and no real good options to find that guy

If they go with Fields for next year, fine, but I don't expect anything more than 9-10 wins and if they get into the playoffs, one and done.


Yet. One is not like the other yet.

....although since Tomlin is not going anywhere, Sullivan will never be able to catch up.

I think the idea with Fields would be give him 1 or 2 years as a starter and plan on drafting a QB high to sit behind him. Basically the same idea they had with Trubisky and Pickett, but Fields should be substantially better than Trubisky.

I don't really like any of the QBs available for this year, but I think the goal would be to draft a younger, high upside QB to sit behind Fields for a year or two before letting them start. Milroe is probably the closest version of that in this draft but I don't particularly like Milroe above the 3rd round. That said, he's projected to go around 50 right now so it's not a stretch to say he could be available in the 3rd.

 

[Pens1566]

I've really gotten the impression that the Steelers are moving on from Wilson based on everything that has been said since the end of the season. Which almost feels like scapegoating him for the mess of the rest of the team, but I digress.



I think the idea with Fields would be give him 1 or 2 years as a starter and plan on drafting a QB high to sit behind him. Basically the same idea they had with Trubisky and Pickett, but Fields should be substantially better than Trubisky.

I don't really like any of the QBs available for this year, but I think the goal would be to draft a younger, high upside QB to sit behind Fields for a year or two before letting them start. Milroe is probably the closest version of that in this draft but I don't particularly like Milroe above the 3rd round. That said, he's projected to go around 50 right now so it's not a stretch to say he could be available in the 3rd.

I could live with this if I had any faith that they could either 1) fix some of his issues with coaching or 2) scheme around it and towards our strengths. I have little faith in either of those though. I do prefer JF's intangibles over RW though. And I'd rather do other things with the $$$ that we'd have to shell out for the ghost of RW.

I think our best best is some kind of RPO/quick hit scheme and that CA and Roman Wilson can actually be productive options freeing up Pickens (or whoever we replace him with). This boring, predictable shit has got to go though.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I've really gotten the impression that the Steelers are moving on from Wilson based on everything that has been said since the end of the season. Which almost feels like scapegoating him for the mess of the rest of the team, but I digress.



I think the idea with Fields would be give him 1 or 2 years as a starter and plan on drafting a QB high to sit behind him. Basically the same idea they had with Trubisky and Pickett, but Fields should be substantially better than Trubisky.

I don't really like any of the QBs available for this year, but I think the goal would be to draft a younger, high upside QB to sit behind Fields for a year or two before letting them start. Milroe is probably the closest version of that in this draft but I don't particularly like Milroe above the 3rd round. That said, he's projected to go around 50 right now so it's not a stretch to say he could be available in the 3rd.

It’s not scapegoat it’s common sense. Rw will be 37 years old next season. His play has gotten worse each of the last 3 seasons. What made him special was his ability to extend plays and play out of structure like Ben. His body will not allow him to do that anymore. He is Joe Flacco without the ability to make all the throws
You go cheap on fields like 3/30 we gave Mitch and build the skill players and have the o line coach and the o line in place so you can trade up in 26.

 

[WickedWrister]

 

[xlm34]

I don’t think there’s any chance Smith gets the Bears job, but I guess there’s a small one he gets the Jets job. And in that case I would think there’s a decent chance that Fields might follow him there.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Russ went from cooking to cooked in about six weeks.

I know that's hyperbole and not really an fully accurate representation of his play but in a nuthell... that's how it goes with older guys.

 

[Shrimper]

If Deion Sanders to Dallas is true, I’d do whatever it takes to get Dak. Give Dallas the draft capital they’d need to go up and get Shedeur. Win/Win.

On that contract? No thanks

 

[JTG]

Mike Williams was targeted 13 times as a Pittsburgh Steeler.
He caught 9 of them for 132 yards, an average of 14.7 yards per catch and 1 TD.
That 2nd receiver even matter.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I could live with this if I had any faith that they could either 1) fix some of his issues with coaching or 2) scheme around it and towards our strengths. I have little faith in either of those though. I do prefer JF's intangibles over RW though. And I'd rather do other things with the $$$ that we'd have to shell out for the ghost of RW.

I think our best best is some kind of RPO/quick hit scheme and that CA and Roman Wilson can actually be productive options freeing up Pickens (or whoever we replace him with). This boring, predictable shit has got to go though.

Honestly with what Smith was doing to start the year with Fields, I feel like Smith could build the offense around Fields pretty well. They were running a lot of QB runs and RPO type of plays with Fields, but those really dried up once Wilson came in. Mostly because Wilson just didn't have the mobility to run them.

It all comes from the top, though. I think Tomlin would need to embrace changing their offense into that kind of scrambler QB offense that would be required for Fields. The offense won't be any different if Tomlin just forces it to be scared of turnovers and nothing else. If they were to do that, I think Milroe as a draft pick to sit behind Fields would make a boatload of sense.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Mike Williams was targeted 13 times as a Pittsburgh Steeler.
He caught 9 of them for 132 yards, an average of 14.7 yards per catch and 1 TD.
That 2nd receiver even matter.

Roman Wilson found it hard to get on this moving train of a such a juggernaut offense!

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I don’t think there’s any chance Smith gets the Bears job, but I guess there’s a small one he gets the Jets job. And in that case I would think there’s a decent chance that Fields might follow him there.

I do wonder if they eat the dead money for cutting Rodgers Adams having no guarantee money is probably cut
I agree about the bears it seems their gm doesn’t want to lose a power struggle with Johnson and they hire McCarthy

Mike Williams was targeted 13 times as a Pittsburgh Steeler.
He caught 9 of them for 132 yards, an average of 14.7 yards per catch and 1 TD.
That 2nd receiver even matter.

Yeah he put up nearly identical numbers as a jet he wasn’t considered a wr 2 at either spot
Tomlin said Muth was paid to be wr 2

 

[T1K]

On that contract? No thanks

Didn’t realize it was that bad. I’m not sure if that is realistic to fit under the cap. Would def need to be restructured creatively to make it work.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Honestly with what Smith was doing to start the year with Fields, I feel like Smith could build the offense around Fields pretty well. They were running a lot of QB runs and RPO type of plays with Fields, but those really dried up once Wilson came in. Mostly because Wilson just didn't have the mobility to run them.

It all comes from the top, though. I think Tomlin would need to embrace changing their offense into that kind of scrambler QB offense that would be required for Fields. The offense won't be any different if Tomlin just forces it to be scared of turnovers and nothing else. If they were to do that, I think Milroe as a draft pick to sit behind Fields would make a boatload of sense.

Tomlin wants mobility from the qb position he i think you can build a 21st century offense just by taking things from Philly Greenbay with Willis Marriota stuff. Get multiple big body pass catchers to make it easier for JF. Use motions and switch release routes use slants build play action off of shut gun

 

[T1K]

Russ went from cooking to cooked in about six weeks.

I know that's hyperbole and not really a fully accurate representation of his play but in a nuthell... that's how it goes with older guys.

It’s one thing to make the QB switch mid season, but to stubbornly stick with Russ after he lost all momentum is something Tomlin isn’t getting enough heat for.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Yet. One is not like the other yet.

....although since Tomlin is not going anywhere, Sullivan will never be able to catch up.

I highly suspect Fenway is riding out the Crosby years with Sullivan, then he will be gone.

I’d bet serious money he will never be anywhere near the universe that Tomlin is in.

Sullivan would have to still be around in 2033 with zero accomplishments in that time.

Despite all the Sullivan lifetime job jokes, it’s not happening in the NHL, or any other N.A. sport for that matter.

Tomlin’s situation is one of a kind because of AR2.

 

[T1K]

Tomlin wants mobility from the qb position he i think you can build a 21st century offense just by taking things from Philly Greenbay with Willis Marriota stuff. Get multiple big body pass catchers to make it easier for JF. Use motions and switch release routes use slants build play action off of shut gun

He doesn’t value mobility that much, otherwise he would have stuck with Fields.

 

[Peat]

Yeah that’s not a huge surprise after some of the quotes from Smith earlier in the year and the reports that Tomlin went lone ranger on the decision.

I could see Wilson being frustrated with the run game insistence. But I think a lot of OCs get frustrated with the way Wilson wants to play.

I don't think any OCs want Wilson at this point. If the first read you drew up isn't there, the rest of what you did is irrelevant. Even if he could regularly make that work, got to be very frustrating.

I wonder what Wilson's beef was because got to think run game heaviness was mentioned when they were selling Wilson on Pittsburgh. Pretty sure it was reported that way. Could have been that anyway, but I wonder... tbh, I think on some level it was personal. Smith made it sound personal when Fields was replaced.

I don’t think there’s any chance Smith gets the Bears job, but I guess there’s a small one he gets the Jets job. And in that case I would think there’s a decent chance that Fields might follow him there.

Graziano both makes Smith the favourite for the Jets job and agrees there's a good chance Fields follows him there.

Rather ambivalent about that possibility.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

He doesn’t value mobility that much, otherwise he would have stuck with Fields.

He said JF has come along way and could easily be in pole position for next season he wasn’t ready last season. IE I said RW gives us the best chance to win and wasn’t ready to admit i was wrong

 

[pistolpete11]

I've really gotten the impression that the Steelers are moving on from Wilson based on everything that has been said since the end of the season. Which almost feels like scapegoating him for the mess of the rest of the team, but I digress.

Agreed. It's Wilson. It's Smith. It's Austin. It's the O-line coach. It's not having the WR.

It's anything and everything EXCEPT the HC.

I think the idea with Fields would be give him 1 or 2 years as a starter and plan on drafting a QB high to sit behind him. Basically the same idea they had with Trubisky and Pickett, but Fields should be substantially better than Trubisky.

I don't really like any of the QBs available for this year, but I think the goal would be to draft a younger, high upside QB to sit behind Fields for a year or two before letting them start. Milroe is probably the closest version of that in this draft but I don't particularly like Milroe above the 3rd round. That said, he's projected to go around 50 right now so it's not a stretch to say he could be available in the 3rd.

The only problem is they won't let Fields be aggressive and sink or swim. They'll secure their 9 wins and be trying for a QB in the 20 OV range. It happens, sure, but it's just more Tomlin Purgatory with no end in sight.

Personally, given the QB class and all the other holes on the team, I wouldn't take a QB this year at all. Continue to build the team and put the next guy in the best position possible.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

 

[JTG]

I still think there's a bit of rosy retrospection on Fields. He was 4-2, but he was 4-2 largely because the level of competition and the defense was giving up less than 10 points a game in those wins. It ended up not working with Wilson, but that doesn't mean it would have worked with Fields. I think there are just as many games they lost where Fields may have made a difference as games they won that they probably don't with him.

I get the point that he's younger and they could have found out for sure if they should move forward with him, but I think we would have ultimately ended up in the same position. No 'QB of the Future' and no real good options to find that guy

If they go with Fields for next year, fine, but I don't expect anything more than 9-10 wins and if they get into the playoffs, one and done.


Yet. One is not like the other yet.

....although since Tomlin is not going anywhere, Sullivan will never be able to catch up.

Though this is true...he just had a year to basically sit and work on his craft. Next year is his time to shit or get off the pot. He should be listed as starter today, and they should roll forward with him. Tell Russ he is more than welcome back, but he is #2.

Let it be Fields offense right now and he can work through the summer as such.