OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: 5 and 2 Justin who? Hand the Fields to Wilson

Zirakzigil

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Jul 5, 2010
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Maybe it's cope but I think there is a legitimate argument to be made that taking 10 penalties on offense through 2 games makes it impossible to evaluate any offense. Holding penalties were one of my biggest concerns after we brought in two mobile QBs that love to break contain and drafted a bunch of rookie linemen. Saw it on the 50 yarder to Pickens that got called back for holding by Broderick Jones. It's just really hard for guys to stay disciplined on those plays.

Despite the lack of explosive plays, I'm not that bothered that this team has a pretty low early down passing rate. Like you said, it just hasn't been this organizations philosophy besides a couple of late career Big Ben seasons. You can have a good offense while still running the ball a lot if you're just efficient on those early downs, which we haven't been. We have the most rushing attempts in the league but the 3rd fewest rush EPA, which is pretty wild.

Like I do think Arthur Smith actually wants to push the ball down the field more than just on 3rd and long scenarios, we just haven't been in enough advantageous situations because of all the penalties and ineffective early down runs. His whole thing in Tennessee was getting defenses to crowd the box to defend the run and then hit them with the play action pass, we just haven't been able to establish that first part on a consistent enough basis.

It's been 2 games, I don't know yet. I think it has the potential to be given the draft capital we've invested compared to years past, but I honestly don't think the line was that bad last year, especially towards the end of the season running the ball.

Frazier is obviously a clear upgrade over Cole.

Cautiously optimistic about Fautanu but I want to see him go against some of the better edge rushers and DE first.


Fields team. Don’t let BigDaddy see this


Well, here's the team's drives in terms of penalties, potentially explosive plays, and good first downs (I picked 2nd and 6 as a representing a good first down that could spring an explosive play as Pro Football Reference gives a 40% gain on first down as a successful play, defining explosive as 20 yard or deep target on PRF's play by play, which I'm not happy with as I don't think deep is 20+ for them but sometimes I can't find out what exactly it was).


Drive 1 vs ATL - No penalties, no EPs, three first downs, 1 2nd and 6 or better
Drive 2 vs ATL - No penalties, no EPs, three first downs, no 2nd and 6 or better
Drive 3 vs ATL - 2 penalties, one EP, three first downs, 2 2nd and 6 or better
Drive 4 vs ATL - No penalties, one EP, three first downs, 1 2nd and 6 or better
Drive 5 vs ATL - No penalties, no EP, one first down, 1 2nd and 6 or better
Drive 6 vs ATL - No penalties, one EP, three first downs, 2 2nd and 6 or better
Drive 7 vs ATL - 2 penalties, one EP, two first downs, 1 2nd and 6 or better
Drive 8 vs ATL - 1 penalty, no EP, five first downs, 2 2nd and 6 or better
Drive 9 vs ATL - No penalties, no EP, one first down, no 2nd and 6 or better
Drive 10 vs ATL - No penalties, no EP, two first downs, no 2nd and 6 or better

So most drives vs ATL there wasn't a penalty. Remove the offset penalty on drive 8 and that's 8 out of 10 drives without losing any yards to a penalty. There were a lot of penalties but given how they were bunched up, most drives were fine.

There were four attempts at generating an explosive play. Drive 3's EP came after a Van Jefferson penalty leads to 3rd and 9. Drive 4's is the deep ball thrown on 1st down to set up the field goal at the end of the first half. Drive 6's is an incomplete deep ball thrown to Pickens on 2nd and 1. Drive 7's is the 40 yard deep ball thrown to Pickens on 1st down.

There were ten successful plays on 1st down, but only one of them resulted in an attempt at an explosive play.

So in the Atlanta game, I don't think attempts at explosive plays were being held back by penalties because 8 out of 10 drives weren't impeded by penalties, or by a lack of success on first down because they didn't do bad there. They just didn't try many and half the time they did it was because they were out of options.


Drive 1 vs DEN - No penalties, no EPs, one first down, no 2nd and 6 or better
Drive 2 vs DEN - No penalties, no EPs, six first downs, 1 2nd and 6 or better
Drive 3 vs DEN - 3 penalties, 1 EP, five first downs, no 2nd and 6 or better
Drive 4 vs DEN - 1 penalty, 1 EP, four first downs, 2 2nd and 6 or better
Drive 5 vs DEN - No penalties, no EPs, two first downs, no 2nd and 6 or better
Drive 6 vs DEN - No penalties, 1 EP, one first down, no 2nd and 6 or better
Drive 7 vs DEN - No penalties, 1 EP, two first downs, no 2nd and 6 or better
Drive 8 vs DEN - 1 penalty, 1 EP, two first downs, 1 2nd and 6 or better
Drive 9 vs DEN - 1 penalty, no EP, one first down, no 2nd and 6 or better
Drive 10 vs DEN - No penalty, 1 EP, two first downs, no 2nd and 6 or better
Drive 11 vs DEN - No penalty, no EP, one first down, no 2nd and 6 or better

So very different game. 5/11 drives with a penalty losing yards.

Six attempts at generating an explosive play. Drive 3 is that Fields dart called back for the Jones hold after Jones other penalties put them on 3rd and 18. Drive 4 is a 27 yarder to Van Jefferson that draws DPI after Warren sets up 2nd and 6. Drive 6 is an incomplete to Van Jefferson on 3rd and 8. Drive 7 is a 37 yarder to Pickens that draws DPI on 1st and 10. Drive 8 is a deep to Austin on a 3rd and 12 caused by a Heyward holding penalty. Drive 10 is a deep to Austin on 3rd and 3 that draws an unnecessary roughness penalty.

Only four successful first down plays (yikes) and only one of them sets up an explosive play attempt. But we still get more explosive plays over all. Part of that is deliberate because they knew this reffing crew called a lot of DPI and wanted to cash in. Part of that I think is they kept getting in holes, partly due to penalties and partly due to just not being very successful on first down.

I don't want to average them out because I feel like an average of two very different games isn't all that useful.

But I feel like that in both games, it consistently looks like penalties lead to more deep shots than less, and that they're not using successful first downs to set up deep shots all that often. They use their run first tendency to set up the deep shot, occasionally but it doesn't seem to matter if its successful and they run it from first down a fair amount anyway. I think it's fair to say that. It mightn't be fair to judge what the offence could be based on sloppy execution, but I think it's fair to judge on what they're trying to do and I don't think the penalties and stuffed first downs are what's keeping the explosive plays down. Touchdowns maybe, but not explosive plays. I overstated where they are on the explosive plays now that I look at the facts but I do think that the problem isn't the execution.

And I think the problem is they just didn't want to all that much. That they would rather avoid the turnover risk and just grind it up the field because they believe that gives them a better chance of winning.

Maybe it changes. I really hope so. But that's the problem I see.


edit: And that's a far longer reply than I thought it would be. Your point seemed legitimate but at the same time it just didn't seem right from what I remembered, so I thought I'd look at what broke down when.

I think Field-Pickens relationship and camaraderie is enough to keep Fields the starter. Those two are bound to go off soon, I think.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/413 ... e-nominees

Suggs and Vinatieri should be locks.

I was a fan of Jared Allen, but don't think he gets in

Also the HOF has become so watered down....

I was looking at draft prospect rankings to kind of figure out if I'm going to catch a college game this weekend.

Kenneth Grant - DT - Michigan
6'3 and floats between 330-350. Some reports I have seen listed him at 360. He runs a sub-5 40 yard dash and is said to be a freak in the weight room. Most reports are saying he's is a 3-tech in a 4-3 and a 5-tech in a 3-4.

Haloti Ngata 2.0 incoming.

This draft class has freakish defensive linemen.


It does seem like they should be an almost perfect match given their skillsets/specialties.

The 51 yarder that was taken back was an insanely good throw on the move. Just sick.

Arm strength and deep ball accuracy was never an issue for Fields. I'm not saying it isn't nice to watch or a benefit to the team, but for Fields to really take a step, quick (even pre-snap) reads and short-to-medium depth accuracy needs to be on display.
 

Peat

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Jun 14, 2016
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Re the point that it's just two weeks.

It is.

It's also the fifth year of Tomlin turtling at the slightest provocation because he no longer has an elite QB.

I would really love it if @WickedWrister was right that it was the execution of the basics getting in the way and that if they can get this sorted, there'll finally be a real offence all the time. That's part of why I looked so extensively.
 
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Empoleon8771

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Wilson being back would be massive, which just shows how dogshit their current WRs are :laugh:

Relying on him to be a WR2 immediately is setting him up to fail, but they really need him to be that.
 
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Double-Shift Lasse

Just post better
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Wilson being back would be massive, which just shows how dogshit their current WRs are :laugh:

Relying on him to be a WR2 immediately is setting him up to fail, but they really need him to be that.
1726774191248.png
 
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OnMyOwn

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Sep 7, 2005
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Wilson being back would be massive, which just shows how dogshit their current WRs are :laugh:

Relying on him to be a WR2 immediately is setting him up to fail, but they really need him to be that.
I was saying this all offseason. Being so dependent on a rookie is way too risky for me.
 
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Peat

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Jun 14, 2016
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Today's weird stat is that Van Jefferson is getting an average of 1 yard before the catch on his catches. That's some running back type stuff right there.

He's also getting by far the worst average depth of target of his entire career, and it looks really whacky if you subtract his rookie season. I mean, no wonder it's not working great if you're using a career field stretcher to try and run intermediate routes.

I dunno where Wilson's route running is for taking that role either...
 

Night Shift

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Nov 3, 2014
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Cool dude probably doesn't even wake up at 3 am like the other 31 coaches to study film. He gets to sleep in till practice, Rooney Tunes says its ok though.

Even Rooney is like. "What a cool dude."
 

Buddy Bizarre

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Jul 9, 2021
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Wilson being back would be massive, which just shows how dogshit their current WRs are :laugh:

Relying on him to be a WR2 immediately is setting him up to fail, but they really need him to be that.

Well if you want to go by snap counts, VJ is technically WR1 and Pickens WR2

Why take VJ off the field with his whopping 3 catches for 15 yards....:rolleyes:
 

JTG

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Sep 30, 2007
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Well if you want to go by snap counts, VJ is technically WR1 and Pickens WR2

Why take VJ off the field with his whopping 3 catches for 15 yards....:rolleyes:

I think the WR in this offense who gets the snaps totally depends on the opponent and what they are trying to do. Van is going to be better in some personnel groupings (hopefully Wilson takes that over shortly) and Pickens in the other.

Personnel groupings matter more than depth charts.
 

Buddy Bizarre

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Jul 9, 2021
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I think the WR in this offense who gets the snaps totally depends on the opponent and what they are trying to do. Van is going to be better in some personnel groupings (hopefully Wilson takes that over shortly) and Pickens in the other.

Personnel groupings matter more than depth charts.

I disagree here. They (Smith/MT) love VJ bc he's a good blocker and that is why he's getting all the snaps. The running game is taking precedence over anything else.

No one else in their right mind would pick VJ over Pickens, but because we love the stone age offense this is what we'll get.

Would love to be a fly on the wall to see if it's Smith or Tomlin who prefer VJ.
 

bigdaddyk88

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Apr 21, 2019
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I disagree here. They (Smith/MT) love VJ bc he's a good blocker and that is why he's getting all the snaps. The running game is taking precedence over anything else.

No one else in their right mind would pick VJ over Pickens, but because we love the stone age offense this is what we'll get.

Would love to be a fly on the wall to see if it's Smith or Tomlin who prefer VJ.
Its no different than miller being the wr when they have 3 te on the field they know they can’t run GP into the ground so if they want to run it they out 3 te or Vance. Tomlin said the league is flooded with wr every year so they view the wr not named GP the same
 

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