OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Off Season We dont need a QB Edition

[Ulf5]

You said decent. It feels like they're questioning whether it's even that. And I can't see another reason he'd have fallen so much (beyond the 24 year old with only one one great season, but they ignore that all the time when they see something they like). Interviews, yeah, but that'd have leaked.

I would say it's a combination of conceived average or less arm strength, pedestrian stats prior to this season and the supporting cast he had in achieving this season's stats.
Who knows.

 

[Pens x]

I just dont think our QB room is really any better today than it was before the draft.

 

[nsvoyageurs]

Rourke is coming off an ACL so not sure how ready he would be. He's likely a PS guy, so if any team wanted him, they could pick him up after the final cuts. I believe that the rule for claiming PS guys is to keep them on the main roster for a 2-4 week period. He might even land on IR or PUP.
So, I do get taking Howard over someone who isn't physically ready for 2025.

I'm not arguing the selection of Howard; I think it was a good pick, especially value wise. Rourke would never see the field this season anyway, healthy or not, barring something unforeseen. He may spend the season on IR or at least the PUP list to start the season. You could still see, once healthy, if he has something you can work with. But it's just my opinion; no biggie.

I believe a PS pickup must be on the main roster for 3 weeks.

 

[Peat]

I would say it's a combination of conceived average or less arm strength, pedestrian stats prior to this season and the supporting cast he had in achieving this season's stats.
Who knows.

I think it's always a combination of things when someone falls, yeah. Rarely one smoking gun.

That said... you can find teams gleefully overlooking the age and stats thing when they fall in love. In a lot of ways, it's genuinely batshit that Shough is a 2nd round pick and Howard is a 6th. If you're looking for a reason they didn't fall in love, then obviously age/stats only means so much. The arm however, I think does. I'm curious as to how it looks in camp though as I saw lots of people say the arm was fine (just less so in the leak pieces).

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I didn't read anyone saying that his arm was weak. Simply nothing special.

His evaluation seemed as meat and potatoes as the rest of this draft. Most developed, polished and projectable quarterback prospect in the draft. Unlikely to wash out. As Unlikely to become a star. A potentially very good backup. Which is great in the sixth round.

As I said previously, for the most part this draft was about supporting people. Linemen who will free up others like Watt and Highsmith to put up the stats as an example.

The quarterback pick is the same. A quality backup. No need to try and force him into something more. Is it possible? Sure. But very unlikely.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

You said decent. It feels like they're questioning whether it's even that. And I can't see another reason he'd have fallen so much (beyond the 24 year old with only one one great season, but they ignore that all the time when they see something they like). Interviews, yeah, but that'd have leaked.

I’m gathering that it was the arm strength.

But then Gabriel was a T100 pick.

 

[Ulf5]

I think it's always a combination of things when someone falls, yeah. Rarely one smoking gun.

That said... you can find teams gleefully overlooking the age and stats thing when they fall in love. In a lot of ways, it's genuinely batshit that Shough is a 2nd round pick and Howard is a 6th. If you're looking for a reason they didn't fall in love, then obviously age/stats only means so much. The arm however, I think does. I'm curious as to how it looks in camp though as I saw lots of people say the arm was fine (just less so in the leak pieces).

I would think the accuracy and the repeatable throwing motion/mechanics are the important things. I would hope he could improve his arm strength. But maybe not.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

People whose living depends on these evaluations have said his arm strength is nothing special.

Name me the quarterbacks drafted later who had similar evaluations that ended up starring in the modern era.

There are some. But was their success because of misses in evaluations of athleticism or that they were put into systems to succeed despite limitations?

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think the entire QB class was depressed due to a weak top of the class combined with a lot of teams just not needing QBs. I think Howard is a similar level QB prospect as guys like Ridder, Howell and Mills, who all went between the early 3rd and early 5th. In a normal year, I think Howard goes right around where Gabriel went in this draft, either a late 3rd or early 4th rounder.

I also think Howard had an awful combine performance, which also contributed to his fall.

 

[Peat]

I’m gathering that it was the arm strength.

But then Gabriel was a T100 pick.

Well yeah that one was bonkers.

Incidentally, going back to the Allar conversation and the possibility of him sliding without improvement... obviously Allar's arm strength is in a whole other ball park, but I think we just saw that big and strong isn't necessarily the saving grace with NFL teams as we thought.

Tbh, at this point, I'm willing to believe just about anything can happen. The league that took Trey Lance, Anthony Richardson, Shedeur Sanders, and Brock Purdy where they all went is capable of anything. And two of those were by the same team, so it's not even like there's smart teams and dumb teams!

I would think the accuracy and the repeatable throwing motion/mechanics are the important things. I would hope he could improve his arm strength. But maybe not.

I'm led to believe QBs have improved it before. Tough to do but it can happen. It'll be tough for him to be a guy without it if it starts affecting his ability to make NFL window throws because he lacks the velocity.

I think the entire QB class was depressed due to a weak top of the class combined with a lot of teams just not needing QBs. I think Howard is a similar level QB prospect as guys like Ridder, Howell and Mills, who all went between the early 3rd and early 5th. In a normal year, I think Howard goes right around where Gabriel went in this draft, either a late 3rd or early 4th rounder.

I also think Howard had an awful combine performance, which also contributed to his fall.

I dunno man. I think I saw a lot of teams that needed or wanted QBs. I forget who the Jets' back-up is but that's a situation where a flier on a late round QB made all the sense - but they didn't take one. The Rams need a developmental guy sooner rather than later but didn't take one.

 

[Factorial]

PFF - B+
CBS - B-
SI - A

But don't let facts get in the way of being this thread's village idiot.

He has that role in the Pirates thread as well.

 

[pistolpete11]

Regarding where QB's are taken (or any position really), there is a bit of reading how the draft is breaking that plays into it, too.

My guess is that the Steelers didn't really like any of the QBs more or less than the others and they were able to stay patient because they were mostly all there when they picked. Once the Eagles took McCord, the Steelers took Howard. If the Eagles would have taken McCord in R5 instead, my guess is the Steelers would have taken Howard in R5. There's a risk there would be a run on QB's and you're left without a chair, but it was a calculated risk that played out pretty well for them.

Other teams may have had a stronger preference on who they ended up with and/or got panicked other teams would start taking the QBs and jumped the gun...kinda like the Steelers did in 2022.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I dunno man. I think I saw a lot of teams that needed or wanted QBs. I forget who the Jets' back-up is but that's a situation where a flier on a late round QB made all the sense - but they didn't take one. The Rams need a developmental guy sooner rather than later but didn't take one.

He also apparently had an awful pro day that probably hurt his ranking.

I just think the entire league viewed the QB class as trash, so even normal 3rd/4th round talent guys got pushed down a couple of rounds. Look at Ewers, it's wild to see him almost go undrafted.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Tbh, at this point, I'm willing to believe just about anything can happen. The league that took Trey Lance, Anthony Richardson, Shedeur Sanders, and Brock Purdy where they all went is capable of anything. And two of those were by the same team, so it's not even like there's smart teams and dumb teams!

Like I said before the draft man

It seems like it’s universally agreed that drafting QBs is a crapshoot. So I can’t really fault the Steelers if they throw shit at the wall and hope it sticks.

But a 6th rounder is pretty inconsequential poop to throw.

 

[Solution]

with all the stuff coming out about how bad he interviewed.

how on earth did we hear "tomlin loved him" and sanders himself saying how great the meeting with the steelers was

Also remember that all the reports in the Pickett draft were that Tomlin loved Malik Willis. So these "insiders" are not as on it as they think. Plus that was with Colbert. Khan is a bit closer to the vest.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Like I said before the draft man

It seems like it’s universally agreed that drafting QBs is a crapshoot. So I can’t really fault the Steelers if they throw shit at the wall and hope it sticks.

But a 6th rounder is pretty inconsequential poop to throw.

If they would have drafted the same player but in the fourth round, would that have been more consequential?

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

If they would have drafted the same player but in the fourth round, would that have been more consequential?

No- but your cost basis is simply higher.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

No- but your cost basis is simply higher.

I mean, obviously, I guess. Maybe I misunderstood your original post I replied to, but I was just trying to gauge your threshold for consequential.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I mean, obviously, I guess. Maybe I misunderstood your original post I replied to, but I was just trying to gauge your threshold for consequential.

Inconsequential is probably the wrong word but what I am saying your opportunity cost of throwing shit at the wall (gambling on a QB you don’t feel incredibly strongly about because you’re playing volume game to hopefully find one) is so much lower.

You gamble on that QB R1 or even day 2, you are passing up on a guy at another position that you have a starter grade on to do so. But Round 6? I mean maybe you are passing on an AB/Tom Brady but it’s probably a guy that doesn’t even make the roster.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Inconsequential is probably the wrong word but what I am saying your opportunity cost of throwing shit at the wall (gambling on a QB you don’t feel incredibly strongly about because you’re playing volume game to hopefully find one) is so much lower.

You gamble on that QB R1 or even day 2, you are passing up on a guy at another position that you have a starter grade on to do so. But Round 6? I mean maybe you are passing on an AB/Tom Brady but it’s probably a guy that doesn’t even make the roster.

Yeah I did misunderstand. I thought you were bemoaning that they only used a sixth rounder. It sounds like you figure that sixth-rounder, given the crapshoot and where these guys were valued, was a reasonable poop throw.

 

[MrBrightside]

 

[Snooki Stackhouse]

Surprised they released him without making sure Yahya Black could perform in camp.

 

[JTG]

I'm not going to pretend to know anything about him. We'll see if he can play, but guys like Yahya Black are never going to be rated highly simply because he doesn't have a pass rush. Particularly in today's NFL.

But who cares? That's not why he was drafted. If he can come in, take up a couple of blockers and stuff the run in the early downs, it's a good pick...regardless of 'DCOE'.

I think Black is probably more like Daniel McCullers than a mid-round gem, but he has special size - like if they can coach him and develop him, he could be a problem for other teams with his dimensions.

Killebrew counts toward that position too and he's not going anywhere. Not sure they'll keep 5 safeties but definite practice squad stash potential.

I really worry about depth at OG and that seems to have flown under the radar. They are fine at center, they are going to let the #1 picks have a go at OT, but with Seumalo at 32 and in his walk year and McCormick looking like a marginal at best starter/backup, I would like to see them add a guy at interior line, even more than at WR.

McCormick came from an FCS school, was thrown into the fire, and ranked as the 54th guard according to PFF. I don't think it's crazy to assume that he comes in way better this year. Both he and Frazier could really make this whole thing sing if they come to came how I think they will. That right side of our OL will be devastating.

I just dont think our QB room is really any better today than it was before the draft.

But even drafting one of these QBs wasn't really moving the needle.

People whose living depends on these evaluations have said his arm strength is nothing special.

Name me the quarterbacks drafted later who had similar evaluations that ended up starring in the modern era.

There are some. But was their success because of misses in evaluations of athleticism or that they were put into systems to succeed despite limitations?

Tomlin said something about TJ that I'll never forget after he won DPOY. The media asked something like, "did you think TJ could do this when you drafted him?" and Tomlin said, "TJ's ceiling is much higher than anticipated and it's because of the work he does."

I follow this stuff so I try to look for trends, and there are a few - system matters for a rookie. If they can come into a system that they sort of know already, and a style of play they identify with, they are obviously going to be successful. Purdy and Shanahan...perfect fit. Purdy worked out of the gun at Iowa State and he needed to make quick decisions to get the ball out - that's how Shanahan wants to play. I also think SHanahan, much like McDaniels, is so mendable in terms of what he has his guys do. Tomlin and Co are not.

I also think some guys are way better pro's than college players because of the time they can dedicate to it. Travis Hunter said when he was asked about playing both positions and knowing plays, "I have nothing else to do." I think guys like Frazier will be like that also because he's another dude who hammered down in college to get good grades and a degree.

 

[JTG]

I will be interested in Harmon's run defense. He isn't known for it, but I really think it was because of utilization. He has put up decent rush defense grades. His pass rush will be a welcome addition though. He's the one clearing the way for TJ.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Surprised they released him without making sure Yahya Black could perform in camp.

I imagine Lowry Adams and Patterson are cut to find jobs elsewhere