OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Off Season We dont need a QB Edition

[bigdaddyk88]

Right.
If you want to criticize them for not taking a QB early, that's fine enough.

But people are well aware of the QB room.

Though if you do criticize for not taking a qb early don’t complain when it’s KP Jr because this class garbage

 

[JTG]

When you say back into, do you mean taking a guy at 21 and then using picks this year and next to move back up into the 2nd or do you mean trading back from 21 to the early 2nd+probably a 3rd?

If we take a QB this year, I would only want it in a trade down situation. No QB is worth a 21st pick. They really should just take the BPA at 21.

 

[MrBrightside]

 

[cookthebooks]

everyone knows the quarterback is different, nobody wants their face rubbed in the fact and rodgers loves to rub peoples faces in it

 

[xlm34]

Everyone that says the Steelers are being held hostage from pursuing other options can never actually give other options.

 

[cookthebooks]

you should look into the university of tennessees quarterback situation

 

[bigdaddyk88]

you should look into the university of tennessees quarterback situation

That just a nfl hold out in college though

 

[cookthebooks]

That just a nfl hold out in college though

it was an attempt at one until they said 'no thanks, moving on'

 

[Empoleon8771]

Everyone that says the Steelers are being held hostage from pursuing other options can never actually give other options.

Yeah I was about to comment the same exact thing. Who are they missing out on by waiting for Rodgers? The only guys that have signed semi-recently have been Winston, Wilson (who they didn't want back) and Flacco.

The only thing the Rodgers thing really impacts for me is what I want to do with that 1st rounder. If Rodgers gets signed before the draft, I become significantly more inclined to draft a QB with my 1st. If Rodgers doesn't sign and Rudolph is their QB, I'm betting on a higher pick next year and will wait until 2026 to draft a QB.

Beyond that, I also want any QB they draft to get a pure redshirt year, and having Mason as the starter and no backup makes that significantly less likely than Rodgers as the starter and Mason as the backup.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

We've talked ad nauseum about this but I don't understand the hostage angle. It's actually kind of insensitive to people who are actually hostages. But anyways.....

There really wasn't anyone better available this offseason. Darnold is the only guy I think they should have made a play for because of his age but I don't think he was interested in signing with the Steelers. I wouldn't have overpaid for Fields. This whole notion that they missed out on Joe Flacco is laughable.

If they wait and don't take a QB, in whatever round because they are waiting for A-Aron to make a decision, then I will be critical of them. Up until the draft I don't care.

Even after I don't really care, because I'm perfectly fine with running with Mason next season, plus a late round pick. Skyler is a late round pick who is only 27 as well.

 

[WickedWrister]

Everyone that says the Steelers are being held hostage from pursuing other options can never actually give other options.

Yeah I’ve been saying it since the initial wave of free agency subsided, the soft deadline is going to be the draft. Hard deadline is probably the start of OTA’s

 

[Empoleon8771]

With the Rodgers stuff up in the air, I think my draft strategy would be:

-Trade down with the 1st to get an extra day 2 pick, probably to around #28-#32 overall
-Take the best available DL with their 1st rounder, only go QB if all of the good DL are gone
-Take a RB and one of a OG, WR, DL or CB with the 2 day 2 picks
-Take a QB like Howard or McCord with a day 3 pick

 

[bigdaddyk88]

it was an attempt at one until they said 'no thanks, moving on'

Yes Voulenters not hostages

 

[cookthebooks]

Yes Voulenters not hostages

iswydt

 

[Empoleon8771]

FYI from Brugler's AMA going on now, will post any more that seem relevant:

There is a lot of Tyler Shough love around the league. Prototypical size. Can throw with twitch and power. Moves well. If he were 22 years old, he would be firmly in the top-32 picks. But being a 26 year old rookie and last season at Louisville being the first time he played more than 8 games in a season over his seven years in college complicates the eval. But teams really, really like him. In my Senior Bowl preview, I wrote how Shough could be a surprise top-50 guy because I knew how teams felt about him, but that didn't do him justice.

I think Ohio State DT Tyleik Williams is another really well-liked player who I don't hear mentioned enough.

The scouting motto in the NFL is traits over production. Traits translate where stats might not. Obviously, you want both. But teams are always going to trust the talent because they aren't drafting players for what they have done, they are drafting players for what they can do in the future. That's a very broad way to look at it and there is certainly a granular debate to have depending on the sample size. With Loveland, he has the talent to be an impact pass-catcher in the NFL. Fannin is talented as well, even if it might not be as special as Loveland. To further the debate, which is the better value? Loveland with a mid-1st pick or Fannin with a mid-3rd pick? I understand both sides, chasing the upside with Loveland or preferring the value with Fannin.

This last one is interesting, we can obviously apply this to the QB talk with Sanders but this also feels like it applies pretty well to Herbig. He had great college numbers but slid in the draft because he didn't have prototypical NFL size, but he has ended up a pretty damn solid OLB in the NFL.

The Steelers also had a draft visit with Shough back in early March, that's a guy to keep an eye on with a day 3 pick.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Also just saw this, Henderson and Harvey are visiting the Steelers today.

 

[xlm34]

Also just saw this, Henderson and Harvey are visiting the Steelers today.

I think Harmon is the only round one DT they brought in for a visit. I think they had combine meetings with Nolan and took Grant to dinner the day before his pro day so maybe that means nothing. But their 30 visits are pretty light on round one guys.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I've been a big fan of Henderson for awhile. But I think his vision at the LOS gets messy at times. When given a lane, his burst and acceleration are awesome. But when he has to pick through a defense, that is where his tempo runs hot-cold and I think Hampton gets the edge. Both are good players, although I see Hampton has more of an all-around back.

Who are some of 'your guys'? Guys that you are maybe higher on than consensus, that you think could be great.

Derrick Harmon, Mike Green, Jacob Parrish, Carson Schwesinger, Jordan James, Dylan Fairchild. Those would be a handful that I like more than most and would be targets for my team.

Few more comments here.

I think Harmon is the only round one DT they brought in for a visit. I think they had combine meetings with Nolan and took Grant to dinner the day before his pro day so maybe that means nothing. But their 30 visits are pretty light on round one guys.

From what Brugler said, I wouldn't be surprised for Harmon to be gone before their 1st.

From looking at their DL visits, the only top-4 round picks they've had are Harmon (1st round projection), Farmer (4th round projection), Caldwell (4th round projection) and Alexander (3rd round projection). Makes me think it's Harmon in round 1 or someone like Farmer, Caldwell or Alexander in round 3/4.

Caldwell looks like a day 1 starter NT, so I can definitely see him being picked in round 4 as their main DL draft pick this year and Benton being moved to LDE.

 

[Peat]

This last one is interesting, we can obviously apply this to the QB talk with Sanders but this also feels like it applies pretty well to Herbig. He had great college numbers but slid in the draft because he didn't have prototypical NFL size, but he has ended up a pretty damn solid OLB in the NFL.

The Steelers also had a draft visit with Shough back in early March, that's a guy to keep an eye on with a day 3 pick.

Re Herbig and traits - I'm still curious as to what happens if he gets a full time gig. I don't think his sack numbers spiked with Highsmith out and Herbig getting a starter load (too lazy to work out rates today) and I thought the run defence game looked a little shaky with Highsmith out and Herbig in. I don't know how good a sign this is, but their tackle numbers are different. When Highsmith started last season, he usually got a minimum of 4 tackles a game. Herbig broke that number once despite starting 4 games. Suggests the tape might show Herbig getting washed out and forcing the LBs/secondary to make tackles. I think there's a possibility that long term, he's a fantastic rotation guy and a merely good starter because of the size thing.

That said, that's still a big victory for a round 4 pick, and part of it is that I'm not sure why teams ignored the speed of his get off and ability to bend the corner. Although maybe part of that is it looks like it was a very rich year for OLBs.

Also I doubt Shough hits a day 3 pick. If he does, I'd run up and get him. Personally I don't like his traits vs age and injury history to go for him before then but at the same time, in this draft, I'll live with the Steelers taking him a bit earlier.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Ryan Clark was a better football player than analyst.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Also I doubt Shough hits a day 3 pick. If he does, I'd run up and get him. Personally I don't like his traits vs age and injury history to go for him before then but at the same time, in this draft, I'll live with the Steelers taking him a bit earlier.

Would you use a 3rd on him? I feel like he's too old for me to want to use a 3rd there.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Re Herbig and traits - I'm still curious as to what happens if he gets a full time gig. I don't think his sack numbers spiked with Highsmith out and Herbig getting a starter load (too lazy to work out rates today) and I thought the run defence game looked a little shaky with Highsmith out and Herbig in. I don't know how good a sign this is, but their tackle numbers are different. When Highsmith started last season, he usually got a minimum of 4 tackles a game. Herbig broke that number once despite starting 4 games. Suggests the tape might show Herbig getting washed out and forcing the LBs/secondary to make tackles. I think there's a possibility that long term, he's a fantastic rotation guy and a merely good starter because of the size thing.

That said, that's still a big victory for a round 4 pick, and part of it is that I'm not sure why teams ignored the speed of his get off and ability to bend the corner. Although maybe part of that is it looks like it was a very rich year for OLBs.

Fully agree that Herbig is a wave/situational guy and not a starting LBer
So they need to start thinking about Watt's replacement in next year's draft.

 

[Peat]

Would you use a 3rd on him? I feel like he's too old for me to want to use a 3rd there.

If they're going to insist on using a 3rd for a QB in this draft then I can get behind as much as any other guy who's there. I don't like the age but feel it's less of a deal than it would be normally because of his disrupted development. It's not like he's played ten thousand games to get where he is, he's still chalking up his development hours. The injuries bother me a lot more. Some guys just don't have the bodies for collision sports and I look at his history and that's what it says. But, well, who else? Feels like he's a better athlete with a better ceiling than Howard, and he's an actual QB rather than a hope and a prayer like Milroe.

Tbh, given my beliefs about QB, the Steelers taking a guy is basically kinda hell. They're going to take a day 2 guy at the very height of his range and then leave me sweating that they're going to pin the franchise on this guy next year rather than looking to take a better bet. I'll make my peace with it but I really wish they'd skip and restrain themselves to a late round flyer.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If they're going to insist on using a 3rd for a QB in this draft then I can get behind as much as any other guy who's there. I don't like the age but feel it's less of a deal than it would be normally because of his disrupted development. It's not like he's played ten thousand games to get where he is, he's still chalking up his development hours. The injuries bother me a lot more. Some guys just don't have the bodies for collision sports and I look at his history and that's what it says. But, well, who else? Feels like he's a better athlete with a better ceiling than Howard, and he's an actual QB rather than a hope and a prayer like Milroe.

Tbh, given my beliefs about QB, the Steelers taking a guy is basically kinda hell. They're going to take a day 2 guy at the very height of his range and then leave me sweating that they're going to pin the franchise on this guy next year rather than looking to take a better bet. I'll make my peace with it but I really wish they'd skip and restrain themselves to a late round flyer.

Idk I would hope they wouldn't insist on that

I'd rather take Howard or McCord with a day 3 pick over taking Shough with a day 2 pick.

 

[JTG]

Few more comments here.



From what Brugler said, I wouldn't be surprised for Harmon to be gone before their 1st.

From looking at their DL visits, the only top-4 round picks they've had are Harmon (1st round projection), Farmer (4th round projection), Caldwell (4th round projection) and Alexander (3rd round projection). Makes me think it's Harmon in round 1 or someone like Farmer, Caldwell or Alexander in round 3/4.

Caldwell looks like a day 1 starter NT, so I can definitely see him being picked in round 4 as their main DL draft pick this year and Benton being moved to LDE.

I have often thought through this process, "Caldwell just seems like a dude we'd draft, we'd plug him in, and he'd be a starter from day 1"

Harmon and Caldwell coming in together is actually a really interesting angle. Our run stopping ability goes WAY up with those two.

I think Alexander goes in the early-mid 2nd. I really like him too.