OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Off Season We dont need a QB Edition

[Empoleon8771]

Honestly the whole QB talk may be a moot point with this TJ Watt thing:



I don't think he actually leaves, but considering Miles Garrett just used the "trade me" to get paid, you gotta wonder if Watt is going to do the same.

 

[Peat]

I think there's merit to both arguments here. I agree with @JTG that there's a pretty strong consensus that this is a shitty QB class. Earlier in this thread I was talking about those same NFL.com grades and provided historical comparisons from the same evaluator to demonstrate that it is perceived as not only low ceiling, but also shallow. We're talking about last years QB5 having the same grade as this years QB1. So why not just do the smart thing and avoid what projects to be an especially high risk-low reward scenario?

I've also personally made the same point that Emp and others are making, how we need to be WAY more aggressive attacking the QB position via the draft, trades, FA, basically everything. Just sitting and waiting for the perfect prospect is going to lead to even more years of futility.

I don't think Sanders is dog shit. But what I absolutely do not want to do this year is spend extra draft capital to move up and take a QB I don't love. I don't think that's an unreasonable or unrealistic expectation if you're picking in the... lets say.... top 12ish? At 21? Yeah, that's a tier or two down and those guys are going to have some serious warts.

Just based on the characteristics that I value in a QB (pedigree, arm talent, size, athleticism), I just feel I'm going to have better odds of landing a QB I love next year.

The really obvious thing here is what doesn't lead to futility in the NFL most of the time? Sitting and waiting will probably lead to more years of futility. But so did taking a swing on Pickett. Then so did getting aggressive and replacing him in the off-season. A big trade up could get Mahomes or Allen... or it could get Justin Fields or Trey Lance.

And any philosophy can work.

We've all got our preferences but ultimately they just need to be right in their execution. That's it. That's what will make it.

Which still doesn't make me feel any better about this year.

For what it's worth, I think Shedeur improved his sack avoidance this year and fell below that 20% P2S threshold. Also in light of Jayden Daniels rookie year, I'm reevaluating just how important that metric is in the first place. Or how much the QB is responsible vs. the O line.

Right now I'm going to treat Jayden Daniels as a freak talent with the ability to make what normally doesn't work, work, like Joe Burrow was. If more guys breach the threshold, I'll reconsider, but it's still a big red flag for me. I'm not sure Sanders has that sort of talent.

Also, some of his sacks are incredibly ugly. Like, I do not understand what's going through his brain ugly, which probably accounts for the stat that someone threw at me on reddit - Daniels' yards per sack was 4.8. He took a lot of sacks, but rarely took himself out of range of making it work next play. Sanders was 8.4. That's rough. The chance of killing a drive kicks up.

I'm open to the idea he's going to rein in the hero ball significantly at the next level and be a different guy, but it still gives me a bunch of questions.

Still, to offer the dissenting view -



I can see it happening and by happening, I mean I can see him being that guy. I can see it not happening. I think he's got a very narrow window to being elite, but I can see it. Very tough one for me to decide how I feel about the dude.

Certainly easier for me to like the guy in Nix who I know can keep himself out of trouble than the guy who may or may not be able to learn. We'll see how that one ages.

 

[TooManyHumans]

It's the same reason why I have no clue why so many Steelers fans say "I'm glad we didn't pay Fields", how is going into next year with Rudolph or Rodgers as their QB more likely to find that QB fix?

I am glad we didn't pay Fields precisely because it makes us more likely to go find the next QB. I don't believe Fields is ever going to be that guy. I simply didn't see the improvement other people apparently did in him last year. I saw a reduction in sacks and INTs because he played it safe like Tomlin likes. That's pretty much it for any differences with what he did in Chicago, and we didn't get the big plays he got in Chicago. If we had given Fields the Jets contract then we would not have had any urgency about finding a QB. Now we hopefully do. I also don't want Rodgers, btw. I want us to find young QBs. If we fail at first, keep looking and stop trying for the temporary fix guys.

 

[Peat]

Honestly the whole QB talk may be a moot point with this TJ Watt thing:



I don't think he actually leaves, but considering Miles Garrett just used the "trade me" to get paid, you gotta wonder if Watt is going to do the same.

I'm curious as to what goes on in NFL contract negotiations as it feels absolute mountains out of molehills stuff compared to most other things (but then I don't know how MLB and NBA work, maybe it's as bad there).

In any case... I was going to say the team just has to compartmentalise, but I guess if there's a chance they don't sign Watt, maybe that does change things. At this point as a fan I'm just going to assume it happens until there's a lot of fire about it not happening.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Honestly the whole QB talk may be a moot point with this TJ Watt thing:



I don't think he actually leaves, but considering Miles Garrett just used the "trade me" to get paid, you gotta wonder if Watt is going to do the same.

This is a whole lot of nothing. He is getting paid in august most likely isn’t going to be 4 years like Miles because he is older than him. They are not paying a Qb long term. TJ has to commit to flipping sides so teams can’t game plan him around him so easily

 

[JTG]

This is the scariest thing about Sanders. His arm is legitimately bad by NFL standards. Like I actually get Mac Jones vibes from him at times.

And if we’re comparing him to recent Steelers QBs, Pickett was probably a more physically gifted QB.

I actually love Shadeur as a competitor. I like his arrogance and cockiness, even if it does go overboard. The issue I have is that he's cocky but his talent can't back it up like his Dad, and when he gets exposed he gets whiny.

So what if you do if those QBs don't declare in 2026? Wait until 2027? What's exactly the end game here to actually solve the QB situation?

I agree. Every year it's the same thing -

"Nix isn't worth a top 15 pick"
"Penix isn't worth a top 15 pick"

Yet they go where they go because of the position and sometimes it doesn't work out (Kenny) and sometimes it does (Nix).

The Steelers aren't going to pick in the top 5 next year. They'll be 15-22 and we'll say "Wow not sure Nussmeier is worth it here".

Want a QB at the 15-22 slot? You're going to get the Nix/Sanders type guys and you just have to keep trying.

No! That's what I'm trying to say. This isn't about a top QB. You keep seeing "Arch." The college QBs next year are better and many are less of projects than any of these guys. The crops of QBs are just so much better in future years where we DO get aggressive for our guy. Trade the whole f***ing draft if he's there.

My end game if I were king of the Steelers would be to do what we have to do in this draft to fill our weaknesses (that line up perfectly with this draft) and go all in on QBs the next 2 years. We walk out with 1 or even 2.

I'm also NOT against taking Shadeur or Dart. I just wouldn't do it at 21 and we don't have a 2nd if one of them falls.

I think there's merit to both arguments here. I agree with @JTG that there's a pretty strong consensus that this is a shitty QB class. Earlier in this thread I was talking about those same NFL.com grades and provided historical comparisons from the same evaluator to demonstrate that it is perceived as not only low ceiling, but also shallow. We're talking about last years QB5 having the same grade as this years QB1. So why not just do the smart thing and avoid what projects to be an especially high risk-low reward scenario?

I've also personally made the same point that Emp and others are making, how we need to be WAY more aggressive attacking the QB position via the draft, trades, FA, basically everything. Just sitting and waiting for the perfect prospect is going to lead to even more years of futility.

I don't think Sanders is dog shit. But what I absolutely do not want to do this year is spend extra draft capital to move up and take a QB I don't love. I don't think that's an unreasonable or unrealistic expectation if you're picking in the... lets say.... top 12ish? At 21? Yeah, that's a tier or two down and those guys are going to have some serious warts.

Just based on the characteristics that I value in a QB (pedigree, arm talent, size, athleticism), I just feel I'm going to have better odds of landing a QB I love next year.

I think for me, this draft lines up with our weaknesses and we have such better odds in the years following. I get that we don't know if these guys are going to be anything, but if you were a betting man and someone said "you can pick from this bucket, there's a gold flake in a bucket of sand, or here's a gold nickel in a bucket of sand...which one would you rather wade in?" You want to work with the pool that has less risky. This is legit the riskiest QB class since Pickett's class. We also have history - that class compares to this one...none of those guys are on their original teams.

You nailed it - the intangibles of the guys coming up are just absurd.

Honestly the whole QB talk may be a moot point with this TJ Watt thing:



I don't think he actually leaves, but considering Miles Garrett just used the "trade me" to get paid, you gotta wonder if Watt is going to do the same.

I would be totally shocked if they even play hardball with him, but if they aren't going to re-sign him, or they are going to hold out, they should just do the full rebuild instead of dicking around with a franchise legend.

 

[Peat]

I am glad we didn't pay Fields precisely because it makes us more likely to go find the next QB. I don't believe Fields is ever going to be that guy. I simply didn't see the improvement other people apparently did in him last year. I saw a reduction in sacks and INTs because he played it safe like Tomlin likes. That's pretty much it for any differences with what he did in Chicago, and we didn't get the big plays he got in Chicago. If we had given Fields the Jets contract then we would not have had any urgency about finding a QB. Now we hopefully do. I also don't want Rodgers, btw. I want us to find young QBs. If we fail at first, keep looking and stop trying for the temporary fix guys.

This is where I was... hell, two months ago.

Now that I've looked closer at this draft, and how teams end up with franchise QBs, I feel less need for urgency and more need for picking the right opportunity. They still need to be urgent, but avoiding bad years for QBs and looking for really great opportunities looks to be part of it.

 

[xlm34]

Feels like with how things are trending this is a little bit more of a “You can’t fire me I quit” type of comment. Maybe he still goes early. Maybe the Saints nab him. I’m getting some 2022 draft vibes though where the closer we got to the draft, the more smoke there was that the QBs might slip.

 

[Factorial]

Will T.J. Watt, Steelers renew vows — or divorce?

A trade request could be the thing that gets Watt paid.

www.nbcsports.com

Did TJ's agent write this article?

Watt enters the final year of a contract that had a value of $28 million per year in new money. He’ll make $21.05 million in 2025. And the Steelers have yet to take care of him, opting instead to sign a stranger to the organization, receiver DK Metcalf, to a five-year, $150 million deal.

Now, instead of focusing on properly compensating the face of the franchise moving forward, the Steelers are coming off as more desperate than The Geek in Sixteen Candles while chasing Aaron Rodgers.

 

[Empoleon8771]

What it ultimately comes down to for me is that I think the Steelers will have to trade an additional 1st to move up to get a QB, so I think Sanders sliding and keeping that extra 1st is a better outcome than using 2 1sts to trade up for a guy to draft at around #10. That said, I'll still believe it when I see it with him sliding all the way to #21.

Hell of a lot better to do that with Sanders than it is with Dart IMO.

 

[Ryder71]

Trade Watt, he's at a position (as well as an age), that his performance will undoubtedly taper off. If it's for a 1st and and 2hd or 3rd do it!

 

[bigdaddyk88]

What it ultimately comes down to for me is that I think the Steelers will have to trade an additional 1st to move up to get a QB, so I think Sanders sliding and keeping that extra 1st is a better outcome than using 2 1sts to trade up for a guy to draft at around #10. That said, I'll still believe it when I see it with him sliding all the way to #21.

Hell of a lot better to do that with Sanders than it is with Dart IMO.

They traded a 1st and 2nd for Bush so trading 2 1sts isn’t terrible that’s why they have the comp picks

 

[ImporterExporter]

I highly, highly doubt Sanders falls to 21 (Either NO grabs him at 9 or someone trades up in front of us), but if he does, you absolutely take him, IMHO. Losing our 2nd for Metcalf more or less takes us out of the running to move up more than say 2-3 picks in round 1 this year. Unless you bail on a lot of picks next year, and that's just moronic given the state of the team.

A late 1st round contract isn't a death knell and his upside as a thrower is pretty high. If his comp is a healthy Tua, with some clutch genes, that is a run to the podium pick at 21 overall.

Otherwise, build the damn trenches, especially along the DL.

Of course, a shocking Watt trade that would include a 1st rounder and change coming back would change the dynamic of the draft entirely.

 

[End of Line]

Did TJ's agent write this article?

It’s like Schefter writing a piece for a team. That language is interesting to say the least.

 

[Mr Jeff Jimerson]

Trade Watt, he's at a position (as well as an age), that his performance will undoubtedly taper off. If it's for a 1st and and 2hd or 3rd do it!

Shedeur Sanders WILL be a Pittsburgh Steeler. Deal with it.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Shedeur Sanders WILL be a Pittsburgh Steeler. Deal with it.

He is almost every thing Tomlin doesn’t like about a Qb. Cam was asked about him today and said he really needs to stop padding the ball

 

[MrBrightside]

 

[Peat]

What it ultimately comes down to for me is that I think the Steelers will have to trade an additional 1st to move up to get a QB, so I think Sanders sliding and keeping that extra 1st is a better outcome than using 2 1sts to trade up for a guy to draft at around #10. That said, I'll still believe it when I see it with him sliding all the way to #21.

Hell of a lot better to do that with Sanders than it is with Dart IMO.

Would your opinion change if they used Highsmith to trade up instead of a 1st?

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Its fairly obvious week 1 the starting Qb is either Mason or Rodgers. Does the locker room want him signed and missing time in eqypt like he did with the jets

 

[Snooki Stackhouse]

Trade Watt, he's at a position (as well as an age), that his performance will undoubtedly taper off. If it's for a 1st and and 2hd or 3rd do it!

On one hand I think if you trade him you'd spend the next 5 drafts trying to find another Watt. On the other hand paying the going rate for edge on someone who seems to have peaked and is on the other side of that peak just doesn't sit right with me either. I'm probably fine with whatever they decide with him.

 

[JTG]

What it ultimately comes down to for me is that I think the Steelers will have to trade an additional 1st to move up to get a QB, so I think Sanders sliding and keeping that extra 1st is a better outcome than using 2 1sts to trade up for a guy to draft at around #10. That said, I'll still believe it when I see it with him sliding all the way to #21.

Hell of a lot better to do that with Sanders than it is with Dart IMO.

So? If it's for their guy, the 1st is irrelevant. What if they use roster player (like a Pickens?) to move up?

This isn't hard to figure out if you're actually around the prospects. They already know if Shadeur has it or not. Now what I hope happens is they legit thinks he has it and not that they can coach it out of him, cuz that ain't happening here. May as well light a pick on fire every year with this model.

They should have signed Fields. I think the entire locker room would have felt better. Fields got disrespected twice - he came out and said he took the "benching" in a bad way, and then was offered 10m less than the Jets. Rooney and Tomlin.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

So? If it's for their guy, the 1st is irrelevant. What if they use roster player (like a Pickens?) to move up?

This isn't hard to figure out if you're actually around the prospects. They already know if Shadeur has it or not. Now what I hope happens is they legit thinks he has it and not that they can coach it out of him, cuz that ain't happening here. May as well light a pick on fire every year with this model.


They should have signed Fields. I think the entire locker room would have felt better. Fields got disrespected twice - he came out and said he took the "benching" in a bad way, and then was offered 10m less than the Jets. Rooney and Tomlin.

I don’t think the locker room cares about JF he is slot wr rb trying to play Qb. The locker room wants to play meaningful football in the playoffs JF doesn’t help them.
There’s not alot of coaching up for Sanders he has spent multiple years in a nfl offense in college and is the best processor and anticipation qb in this class. His ceiling is limited but most teams would be happy with a Geno or Tua type Qb a Bridewater floor

 

[JTG]

I don’t think the locker room cares about JF he is slot wr rb trying to play Qb. The locker room wants to play meaningful football in the playoffs JF doesn’t help them.
There’s not alot of coaching up for Sanders he has spent multiple years in a nfl offense in college and is the best processor and anticipation qb in this class. His ceiling is limited but most teams would be happy with a Geno or Tua type Qb a Bridewater floor

Bridgewater is Shadeur's top, I think. And that's if everything goes correctly with him.

 

[Peat]

Bridgewater is Shadeur's top, I think. And that's if everything goes correctly with him.

That's way lower than the consensus. What do you think they're overegging?

 

[JTG]

That's way lower than the consensus. What do you think they're overegging?

Throwing motion, tells, and arm strength. He makes his money on the short passing game, but he has a long release and does stuff to tip the DBs off. Which DB was it the other day posted something about him tapping the ball.

They don't want him to go in the top of the draft because they don't want him to get clobbered...because that is what would happen. Him going to a team in the 20's would help his chances out tremendously.

Hard to bet against guys like Shadeur though. He's got the attitude and moxie if he can fix the things that are wrong. None of Deion's kids turned out to be Deion.