OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Off Season We dont need a QB Edition

[Empoleon8771]

Speaking of a potential Pickens trade, I feel like Pickens to NE for pick #69 makes an absolute crapload of sense if the Steelers do go for this Egbuka strategy. The issue there though is that Pickens and Diggs may be fairly redundant, so I'm not sure that NE would want to put themselves in that same position. That said, their WR group is so bad that I wonder if they'd just take whatever they could get and do it anyway.

The other argument to make is that Diggs really isn't a long term solution for the Patriots, his 3 year deal is effectively a 1 year deal that can easily be released if the Patriots decide to move on from him. I can't imagine that Diggs would prevent them from trading a 3rd for Pickens if the opportunity was available.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

We don’t really use a traditional 3/4 with a Hampton NT anymore. You can’t draft a Davis like the eagles did and get little production from him in round 1. Benton can’t be a Nt cause he can’t beat double teams you have to hope him going to De helps him. They want to rotate the dl and play big nickel like Buffalo and Philly

 

[JTG]

There isn’t really a true NT in worth a 1st. Grant in Michigan is better suited as a 3tech. If you want a Collins type you can get NT on day 3. I like Pegus and Walker on day 2.

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3 tech can play 5 or 0, but you're probably wasting his pass rush ability. We actually probably need 3's more than 0's or 5's because we really don't run a base 3-4 anywhere near as often as we used to. I sort of wish they would just move to a 4-3. They don't do anything that makes a 3-4 unique. It just makes shit more complicated if they aren't going to use the blitzes that come along with the defense.

And everything I have read about Nolan has said that he would be best in a 4-3. I like him a ton as a player. This is the first publication that I've seen that listed him as a 5. If they think he can play that role, putting him with Cam would be huge. We really should take 2 DL in this draft.

 

[JTG]

Not sure if I agree with this. If he's a good pass rusher, I think you want him at DE on a 3-4. I don't think a NT at a 3-4 is particularly useful in the pass rush game, at least in the Steelers scheme. For a 2-4-5, you're correct but I think a 3-4 would be different there.

Either way, like I said I don't have an issue with the idea, but I'd be pretty emphatic about wanting that NT to shift to RE after Heyward retires and wouldn't draft a guy who I didn't think could do that. The whole "getting a Heyward replacement" doesn't work if you keep the guy at NT. You're effectively not replacing Heyward there if you draft a NT to stay at NT, you'd need to use another high pick to draft a RDE to replace Heyward (or LDE if you slide Benton to RDE).

It's useful to collapse the pocket. I think Grant if he develops could be a Ngata. Irrelevant where he plays, but you better know where he is.

We need depth across the whole line, I think they take 3 techs instead of 0's or 5's because those guys can probably play both pretty well.

 

[JTG]

I’m pretty anti NT in round one and would definitely prefer someone like Harmon over Grant, but I feel like this draft class is bad enough where positional weighting goes out the window a bit.

Why? Grant is just as big as Harmon. He's faster, stronger, and meaner (IMO). I'm sort of souring on Harmon. He wasn't great at stopping the run at Oregon. I personally think Harmon sets up better as a 4-3 DT...I know I'm in the minority.

I'd take Grant over Harmon.

 

[End of Line]

Yeah the more I think about it, the more I think that idea makes a boatload of sense. A couple of points to support it:

1. Like that discussion Peat and I were just having, I don't know that this team would be able to rationalize using a 1st rounder to draft a NT based on the defenses they run. However, you can easily rationalize using a 2nd or 3rd for that, which you'd likely get back for Pickens in a trade.
2. Pickens and Metcalf are pretty similar stylistically at WR, where you can argue having the two is redundant. Egbuka is a different skillset though and would do a better job at complementing Metcalf.
3. Trading Pickens and drafting Egbuka saves you from having to pay both Pickens and Metcalf, so you'd have significantly more cap space to fill out your roster if you do that.
4. If you get a 2nd for Pickens, the RBs they've been rumored to be looking at are projected to go in the mid/late 2nd.

It's a super interesting idea on paper that I think you I'd pretty easily go for.

The aspect of Egbuka’s game that goes overlooked is his blocking.

 

[xlm34]

Why? Grant is just as big as Harmon. He's faster, stronger, and meaner (IMO). I'm sort of souring on Harmon. He wasn't great at stopping the run at Oregon. I personally think Harmon sets up better as a 4-3 DT...I know I'm in the minority.

I'd take Grant over Harmon.

I think Grant may have a higher upside, but to me it seems like he has a hell of a lot more of a ways to go to become an effective 3 down player than Harmon does. When it comes down to it, gimme the guy who has more pass rush juice.

I also just think the way the draft sets up, you’re better off going Harmon in round one and then double dipping for a guy like CJ West in round 4 who gives you the big run stuffer. You’re (hopefully) DL of the future is set then. If you take Grant, you’re still looking for a Heyward replacement and that is not all that easy to find.

 

[Pens1566]

I'd be totally fine with drafting Egbuka at 21 and dealing Pickens away for a 2nd.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I'd be totally fine with drafting Egbuka at 21 and dealing Pickens away for a 2nd.

It’s crazy how we spent an entire year chasing wr 2 and people want to do it again. Once Macmillian admitted he hated watching film and barely does it with his position coach in college you killed the only potential number 1 outside wr in this class. His floor is Higgins. DK is better suited as a 2nd wr. You want to watch 3 slot guys fight to be the outside wr 2

 

[Empoleon8771]

It’s crazy how we spent an entire year chasing wr 2 and people want to do it again. Once Macmillian admitted he hated watching film and barely does it with his position coach in college you killed the only potential number 1 outside wr in this class. His floor is Higgins. DK is better suited as a 2nd wr. You want to watch 3 slot guys fight to be the outside wr 2

You'd be drafting Egbuka to be your WR2.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

You'd be drafting Egbuka to be your WR2.

I don’t believe he will be an outside wr in the nfl. They already have RW who is slot only and needs cheat motion and running starts he had at Michigan to be successful in the nfl. We aren’t the rams or dolphins but RW would be great in the puka role.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don’t believe he will be an outside wr in the nfl. They already have RW who is slot only and needs cheat motion and running starts he had at Michigan to be successful in the nfl. We aren’t the rams or dolphins but RW would be great in the puka role.

Egbuka is just a better version of Wilson and I don't see any reason to assume Wilson is going to be a part of their plans after losing his entire rookie season. That pick is looking more like a dud than something you can rely on.

 

[Peat]

Doing a redshirt rookie season shouldn't be a big deal and I'll let the team's actions guide me as to how much faith to give to Wilson or not, because they know why it happened and we don't.

But arguably showing a ton of interest in the bigger more polished version of him is a guide. That could easily be jumping to the wrong conclusion - maybe they have faith in them playing outside if needed and being able to play both if they like - but it's an easy job.

In any case, I just keep going back to if he's the guy who's going to have the career, then alright. There's a match for his skill set here, regardless of whether the position looks a bit filled or not. I'm not super sold on him being the BPA but it's not my job to be sold.

Why? Grant is just as big as Harmon. He's faster, stronger, and meaner (IMO). I'm sort of souring on Harmon. He wasn't great at stopping the run at Oregon. I personally think Harmon sets up better as a 4-3 DT...I know I'm in the minority.

I'd take Grant over Harmon.

I go back and forth on them and truth told, am not quite in love with either of them (but then unflawed DL prospects don't make it to 21). But I can make a case for Harmon's better pass rush stats - twice the pressures of Grant - and less questioned motor making him a better long term prospect, and a better Steelers fit.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think the red flags I have with Wilson are with how he wasn't even mentioned by the team. It would be one thing if they thought his injury set him too far back and he wouldn't be able to get up to NFL speeds by the end of the year, but they didn't even talk about him as if he didn't even exist. The only report we even heard about him was that he didn't put in the effort to learn the playbook. I don't know the validity of that report, it seems like people who have followed Wilson for longer think it's fake, but it's bizarre how radio silent the team was with him.

I think Wilson is more likely slotted in as an Austin replacement anyway, Austin's deal is done after this year I believe and I'm skeptical they re-sign him. Even if Wilson pans out, I still think you need a WR2 in the future if you trade Pickens. I think an argument to be made about the WR2 spot is that it should be more of a Dionte Johnson route runner type of WR, someone twitchy and quick that excels at running routes. If Wilson pans out, I think that skillset is what best complements DK at WR1 and Wilson at WR3.

 

[WickedWrister]

I'm not just trying to be contrarian but a name I haven't seen mentioned too much in this thread is Ole Miss DT Walter Nolen. I think he's in that tier 2 with Harmon and Grant, granted I've seen him go consistently later than those two in mocks and rankings, but still in the same range where individual team preference should be considered. He was the #1 recruit in the country in his recruiting class for the people that value pedigree. Super twitchy/athletic 3 down IDL.

 

[Peat]

I think the red flags I have with Wilson are with how he wasn't even mentioned by the team. It would be one thing if they thought his injury set him too far back and he wouldn't be able to get up to NFL speeds by the end of the year, but they didn't even talk about him as if he didn't even exist. The only report we even heard about him was that he didn't put in the effort to learn the playbook. I don't know the validity of that report, it seems like people who have followed Wilson for longer think it's fake, but it's bizarre how radio silent the team was with him.

I think Wilson is more likely slotted in as an Austin replacement anyway, Austin's deal is done after this year I believe and I'm skeptical they re-sign him. Even if Wilson pans out, I still think you need a WR2 in the future if you trade Pickens. I think an argument to be made about the WR2 spot is that it should be more of a Dionte Johnson route runner type of WR, someone twitchy and quick that excels at running routes. If Wilson pans out, I think that skillset is what best complements DK at WR1 and Wilson at WR3.

Smith and Azzanni both talked about him prior to his second injury, with Azzanni being pretty bullish - Arthur Smith Explains Why WR Roman Wilson Hasn't Played

'We're Gonna Need Him': Zach Azzanni Backs WR Roman Wilson, Believes He'll Have Impact

It has been a bit of a disappointing rookie season for Pittsburgh Steelers wide receiver Roman Wilson. Drafted in the third round out of Michigan, Wilson was expected to be a key contributor for the Black and Gold this season under offensive coordinator Arthur Smith. But an ankle injury on the...

steelersdepot.com

A lot can happen in a few months, but he was talked about. Smith article about the prospect of him coming back from the second injury (aka no - Arthur Smith Doesn't Commit To Roman Wilson Seeing The Field Soon)

As for what he can be... I don't think they spent a third rounder on him thinking he was just a WR3 guy. But who knows. I do feel like Smith's ideal world does contain a bunch of big-bodied bullies at WR. Egbuka and Wilson as WR2 and 3 doesn't feel like it. If you could give Pickens a personality implant, I wouldn't be in a huge hurry to move on from him and Metcalf.

Tbh, Wilson right now sits on a very fine line of not good enough to prioritise and too good to bury, and I'll just see what the future holds for him.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I'm not just trying to be contrarian but a name I haven't seen mentioned too much in this thread is Ole Miss DT Walter Nolen. I think he's in that tier 2 with Harmon and Grant, granted I've seen him go consistently later than those two in mocks and rankings, but still in the same range where individual team preference should be considered. He was the #1 recruit in the country in his recruiting class for the people that value pedigree. Super twitchy/athletic 3 down IDL.

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I love Nolan i put him and Harmon on the same tier which is why I like the trade down option either guy can be cam replacement

 

[bigdaddyk88]

RW 1st year was wasted hurt like ca3. Ca3 can play outside and return punts i do think we see a 2 dogs 1 bone situation with them or they trade ca3 for a pick

 

[xlm34]

I'm not just trying to be contrarian but a name I haven't seen mentioned too much in this thread is Ole Miss DT Walter Nolen. I think he's in that tier 2 with Harmon and Grant, granted I've seen him go consistently later than those two in mocks and rankings, but still in the same range where individual team preference should be considered. He was the #1 recruit in the country in his recruiting class for the people that value pedigree. Super twitchy/athletic 3 down IDL.

View attachment 1002646

I’ve seen some vague, unsubstantiated things about character concerns with Nolan. I don’t know if that’s true or not though. I’m also not totally sure what his best position is going to be. The slight T-Rex arms aren’t ideal for the Heyward role.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Tbh, Wilson right now sits on a very fine line of not good enough to prioritise and too good to bury, and I'll just see what the future holds for him.

Yeah I think that's fair, and that's ultimately why I'm pretty okay with kicking the WR can down the road until we get a better idea of what Wilson actually is.

If the Steelers hold onto Pickens and franchise tag him for 2026, can they trade him on the tag? I don't think they want to pay Pickens long-term, but letting a Pickens caliber talent walk rather than trading him seems like a mistake. Granted the return on a tagged Pickens (if you can even trade him) would probably not be anything special, but still worth thinking about.

 

[Peat]

Yeah I think that's fair, and that's ultimately why I'm pretty okay with kicking the WR can down the road until we get a better idea of what Wilson actually is.

If the Steelers hold onto Pickens and franchise tag him for 2026, can they trade him on the tag? I don't think they want to pay Pickens long-term, but letting a Pickens caliber talent walk rather than trading him seems like a mistake. Granted the return on a tagged Pickens (if you can even trade him) would probably not be anything special, but still worth thinking about.

Fairly sure the answer is yes as I'm fairly sure the Chiefs did that with Sneed. You'd also probably get a comp pick anyway, but this way is surer and faster.

 

[End of Line]

I don’t believe he will be an outside wr in the nfl. They already have RW who is slot only and needs cheat motion and running starts he had at Michigan to be successful in the nfl. We aren’t the rams or dolphins but RW would be great in the puka role.

Egbuka and Wilson is an apples and oranges comparison. Come on man lmao.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Fairly sure the answer is yes as I'm fairly sure the Chiefs did that with Sneed. You'd also probably get a comp pick anyway, but this way is surer and faster.

Also worth noting that the Steelers will have a bunch of comp picks in 2026 anyway, so maybe taking a comp pick for Pickens wouldn't be much of an issue. They seem like they'll be getting at least 1 3rd round comp pick next year, with the potential of getting 2 3rds and 2 more day 3 picks.

I know QB in round 1 is the obvious biggest need for next year, but getting a 2027 comp pick for Pickens and drafting a WR in round 2 seems like a fairly likely possibility as well. You can likely kick the can on drafting a Pickens replacement down the road by a year, which gives another year for Wilson to get healthy and show what he can be in the NFL.

 

[Empoleon8771]

 

[MrBrightside]

I still can’t believe the Steelers are letting Rodgers string them along like this. This is Jets/Browns dysfunction.